I was just using that one lib dem as example of their overall uselessness rather than their official stance on Brexit.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Perhaps, but right now her problem isn't 80% of people who want to end immigration.
What do you mean?
Apologies. I'm just producing a number to illustrate what I believe.
I assume he is saying that sovereignty wasn't lost in any real sense from Parliament when we joined the EU.
On that note though - if we do crash out on WTO rules, then we will be subject to WTO rules and regulations and subject to the decisions of the WTO Dispute Settlement Body. Honest question - how does the sovereignty objection toward the EU not also apply to the WTO and the myriad of other multinational organisations and agreements the UK is party to?
An amusing aside to all this, even though extremely unlikely, would be the UK accepting the deal and then being rejected by the EU because it is far from certain that the EU as a whole will agree when the final agreement is ready because they deem it too generous to the UK.
The UK never lost its sovereignty.
I don’t think anyone’s accused him of being honest. Taking a decisive stance on such a divisive issues could be electoral suicide.
And for what? He can’t call a second referendum, he can’t reverse the decision to trigger article 50. He doesn’t have any power. All of those asking him to be strong in his opposition to Brexit don’t realise the damage that could do him. He has enough smears coming his way as it is – The Murdoch press would never let the people forget that he betrayed their vote.
He’s taken the wait and see approach so the current or previous poll figures are as irrelevant as Tony Blair. The entire point is to allow the Tories to tear themselves apart – Which they are kindly doing. They have the power, the responsibility and they’ve botched it spectacularly from Cameron to now. It will be open season on their party come the general election, whenever that is – That is when the polls will shift. Brexit was Labour’s major weakness in the last campaign as there was pressure to commit – That will not be an issue next time. They will win IMO.
Yeah it's just given it back to most of the countries it took it from
I was wondering this, don't all countries have to agree to the deal? You just know Estonia are waiting in the wings to troll everyone.
Malta going in for the kill.
No, a certain percentage of the overall population need to, I believe. That's what I read somewhere on the interwebz earlier so it must be true.
I can't remember what the percentage is so I'll just go with 69%.
What is it about modern British politicians that leads you to believe you would be better off with more sovereignty?
I'm sure you understand that even if you go it entirely alone, there will be rules you will be expected to adhere to? If you want to trade with the EU or anyone else you will have to meet certain regulations - only if you go it alone, you will have less influence on setting those regulations.
I've heard quite a few people claim they are better than the racists/xenophobes because they voted Brexit for sovereignty. But at least the racist feckers understand what it is they wanted when they were voting. The poor unfortunates who seem to think Britain is still an empire and should still be writing one set of rules for themselves to live by and another set for the rest of the world are truly lost.
Oh come on that's not fair they were a great help to the tories last time around. Honestly they are the oddest political party around.
This thread is better than CNN coverage.
I don't think it's Estonia to worry about, the major countries will be examining it very closely when they have the final text and will be ensuring that the UK does not gain any advantage. It's only a draft at the moment.
But... but... sovereignty.
You hear that a lot from Brexiteers. What does it even mean? The stumbling blocks to Brexit are about aligning regulatory and trade legislation to allow the UK to continue to operate effectively on the margin of a massive network of countries that have already solved these issues.
What the feck does sovereignty have to do with anything? Can someone please come up with one hypothetical scenario where the Uk will benefit from this hypothetical future sovereignty? Because I’m stumped. If the way your government has handles this whole Brexit SNAFU is an example of how effectively the Uk can operate in isolation when it comes to complex, challening situations then god help you all.
If we win and the economy isn't in such a foul shape so that we can invest properly, then it will have been worth it.
Just like Miliband in 2015 we are waiting to take advantage of the Government's weakness. Hopefuly history won't repeat itself.
Whether we have a decent economy, heaven knows.
Don't know is a pretty big chunk.
The UK is a party to 14,000 treaties.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-treaties
Each of which you could argue reduced the UK's sovereignty to a greater or lesser extent.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-treaties
Each of which you could argue reduced the UK's sovereignty to a greater or lesser extent.
Should probably say "Don't know/care".
First thing that came to mind.
You sound like a man who actually enjoys straight bananas. I want my bananas British - grown here, eaten here, bent here.
Or “jesus fecking christ, I can’t take any more of this brexit shit or I’ll lose my mind...”
So is Mogg
The issue is that some people actually think that there are more legal acts coming from the EU than coming from national legislate organs. Then you have people that don't understand that EU members are one of 28, they have a voice but since everyone is sovereign their voice isn't louder than the other 27, in the parliament though there is a pro rata based on population which means that even then the UK are one of the big boys.
The WTO is not comparable to the EU - which has political and administrative arms. You're talking about the EU like it was still the EEC. It's been a completely different beast since Lisbon.
That argument doesn't correspond with reality. The EU has trade deals with loads of nations and they don't de facto assume other nations have to have regulatory alignment with EU rules.
I honestly think in their heads it is:
Centuries of patting each other on the back over the glory of the empire has left them completely oblivious to even the notion that the rest of the world might not think they are wise and wonderful as they themselves do.
EU members aren't third countries, they are the ones who built these rules for themselves, the UK being a leading member when it comes to trade rules.
He and Mcdonnell are gobsmackingly dishonest. We all know both have been anti-EU for their whole careers and still are, but they won't admit it. Witness their stance on a second referendum at the last party conference, trying desperately to avoid calling for one, and after intense pressure from demonstrations eventually said 'we haven't ruled one out'. Through gritted teeth, I'm sure.
Good luck with that one Mr Gove...
Anti-EU and pro-Brexit are not mutually exclusive.
I'm not saying he should back remain. I disagree strongly that he should be called an 'honest' politician when Labour have claimed when pushed (they've hid as much as they can from the issue) that their Brexit would protect jobs whilst fulfilling the democratic mandate to leave. They've claimed that they'd win an impossible deal the same as the Tories, that's when they'e not been in hiding on the most important British issue since World War 2.
If he was honest he'd lay the cards on the table and tell the electorate that they would fulfill the democratic mandate to leave but it will hurt and that people will lose their jobs. That would be honest.
Labour might well win the next election but you'd get short odds on a garden gnome beating the Tories next time round.
I think on the first point I would see it differently from yourself but that is open to argument and discussion.
However, surely you mean to say that the EU has been a different beast earlier than Lisbon? Maastricht and the Single European Act involved a greater consolidation of functions and powers at the European level than Lisbon, which basically was a consolidating treaty?
Is Gove dumb enough to take that hospital pass ?