It's all very well saying scrap FFP & let all clubs have a go but how many States are out there wanting to buy football clubs. If City & PSG are allowed to spend as they wish the only way for other clubs to compete will be if they too are state funded. The big clubs knew how highly corrupt qatar & Abu Dhabi were. They rallied for FFP to try to protect their (businesses) clubs. The problem was that when City & PSG were found to have cheated the punishment wasn't appropriate. It is much like the problem we have in our penal system. Punishments do not fit the crime. When offenders are released they go on to commit further more serious crimes as they have nothing to fear from the authorities. The punishments FIFA metered out only served to encourage PSG & City to break the rules even further. This all culminated in PSG signing Neymar & Mbappe & Pep going spend crazy at City.
Varchester City 18/19 discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's all very well saying scrap FFP & let all clubs have a go but how many States are out there wanting to buy football clubs. If City & PSG are allowed to spend as they wish the only way for other clubs to compete will be if they too are state funded. The big clubs knew how highly corrupt qatar & Abu Dhabi were. They rallied for FFP to try to protect their (businesses) clubs. The problem was that when City & PSG were found to have cheated the punishment wasn't appropriate. It is much like the problem we have in our penal system. Punishments do not fit the crime. When offenders are released they go on to commit further more serious crimes as they have nothing to fear from the authorities. The punishments FIFA metered out only served to encourage PSG & City to break the rules even further. This all culminated in PSG signing Neymar & Mbappe & Pep going spend crazy at City.
Why if they rallied to protect themselves was it brought in under the guise of protecting clubs from going bust. Surely if that's what happened the big clubs are the ones cheating? Bringing in a rule as one thing but applying it as something else.
What you say is corruption from the bigger clubs with uefa was brought in to stop city and Psg, so exactly what city fans say. interesting it was David gill pushing it, would suggest it was united behind this corruption.
City are not owned by a state, we are part owned by a Sheikh from the UAE.
I don't know any 'states' out there looking to buy a football club. The owners of football clubs appear in the main, to be wealthy, hard nosed business people, who are only in it for the money. City's owners are the same.
As padr81 states, these FFP rules were driven by Gill and United.
Not to protect clubs from going into administration, as in Leeds United, (did Gill care about them?), which was in 2003ish, but after City were bought by the Sheikh in 2008 and he started investing in the club. So FFP1 was around 2010.
City failed these rules, as they were always going to do. They were given a squad reduction to hinder them from competing in the CL, and heavily fined. The elite clubs were delighted with that at the time.
These latest 'Leaks' relate to the same period City have already been penalised for.
It appears that, because City have bought and played successfully, there is the feeling that they weren't punished enough, which seems odd.
They could quite easily have bought and failed, as in previous seasons, and there wouldn't be this cry for fair play.
The real problem is that the way FFP is set up now, the elite clubs are getting richer, and the gap between them and the rest is widening massively.
So, unless FFP is binned or they come up with a fairer system, it will be like the old days, where the Arsenal's, Liverpool's and United's hoovered up the best players in the country, because they were the richest, and the rest played second fiddle. Or even, why did they bother playing at all?
Wait a minute, are you justifying your wrongdoing?
I expect at the very least a one season ban from europe and even domestically as punishment.
I don't disagree with you. The main purpose of FFP was to stop state funded clubs running amok. It had to be brought in in a backdoor way as many clubs would have complained that they were being denied a chance to get there own sugar daddies. It shouldn't be confused as big clubs trying to stop any competition though. There was nothing to stop rich investors putting money into clubs over a gradual period & building themselves up. They could even make losses up to a certain point.
Mansour's wealth is due to being part of the Royal Family. He is using wealth accumulated from his position in the state to fund City. You are state funded which in effect makes you state owned. City & PSG's owners are not in the game to make money. In City's case you are looking at over £2 Bill investment over a decade & yet to make a profit. No business mogul in his right mind is going to want to eat those kind of losses.
The recent leaks indicate you mislead the authorities regarding the level of your losses & declared sponsorship income. A criminal can go to court & be charged with burglary. He is then sent to prison. If while he is in prison it's found he committed 3 other burglary's he will be charged with them also. He doesn't get a free pass due to already being charged for the first offence. City's offences are more serious than previously thought. It is only right that your punishment should be adjusted to be in line with the offence.
You seriously believe City's owners are doing this to make money? Really? What they make from City is a pittance to them in the grand scheme of things. Your club is being used for advertising and PR.
It's always fun to see Manchester City fans do mental gymnastics to justify how disgusting their owners are, and how their club has basically become a propaganda tool.
Just embrace it, there's nothing you can argue which doesn't make you sound desperate. It's not like other clubs are owned by good samaritans, but don't try and convince people that your owners are anything other than total cnuts .. it's utterly laughable.
Just embrace it, there's nothing you can argue which doesn't make you sound desperate. It's not like other clubs are owned by good samaritans, but don't try and convince people that your owners are anything other than total cnuts .. it's utterly laughable.
I fully embrace it. I loved City when Swales and Lee were destroying the club, and I love City now. Ownership doesn't change that, all it has changed has been our ability to compete. I lived in Dubai for 5 years and I wasn't that fussed about the UAE's domestic policies then either really, and I don't recall there being much moralising about the UAE's domestic policies among football fans before the ADUG takeover. Like most countries in the Middle East, the UAE is not a democracy. But it's a convenient stick to beat City with, just like empty seats etc. Such is football rivalry.
In terms of investment, ADUG have pumped in somewhere between £1-1.5 billion. The Chinese investment valued City at a little over £2 billion. Relatively small fry compared to some other ADUG/Mubadala investments, but that's a decent ROI in anyone's book. I'm certainly not getting anywhere near that from my ISA.
I don't think a single City fan in this thread has said that... (or anywhere for that matter) I don't know where people pull this from. There was that one guy from Abu Dhabi who said Mansour is a decent chap (and was told by everyone he knows nothing about his own country) but thats about it as far as I know.
There are plenty of City fans who gloss over how horrendous your owners are, look at @andyox and his post. Also, just because somebody lives in a country doesn't mean they have an objective view on how good that country is, in fact it's pretty much the opposite. Plenty of people living in Russia would argue Putin is a saint, I'm guessing the guy arguing Mansour is a 'decent chap' is one of those who benefits from his policies, rather than the many who are oppressed by them.
Oh as long as you weren't fussed by the policies I guess that's ok then.
It's not a 'convenient stick' to beat City with, you're literally owned by an oppressive regime. Of course there wasn't much discussion between football fans about the UAE before the takeover, why would there be? Do you think people wouldn't have spoken about it if United had been taken over by Gadaffi? It's a legitimate talking point.
In the UAE people are punished for the way they are born, their freedom of thought is repressed and they are hideously abused if they attempt to change that. That's without even getting in to shit like labour rights, their treatment of women etc etc. The sort of people who run a regime who stands for all of that should not be allowed to run a football club in a civilised democratic nation like the UK, but alas that regime happens to be wealthy so their repulsive acts are brushed under the carpet and you can go on winning leagues. That's fine, I don't blame City fans for it (I dont believe for one second fans of other clubs would reject the ownership) but it becomes a bit pathetic when you're going 'they aren't thaaaattt bad'. Because they are, they're horrendous and properly evil, and if the entire lot of them got strung up tomorrow they would have nobody but themselves to blame.
This whole 'you're only saying this because of football rivalry' shit also needs to stop. I am completely neutral towards City as a football club, I would actually much prefer you win than the likes of City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal etc. I know a grand total of zero City fans in real life so you're about as much of a rival to me as Aston Villa. I hope you win the league this season because I know loads of Liverpool fans who will be an absolute fecking nightmare.
I just also think your owners are scum, and would think that regardless of whether they bought you or not. Of course I'm going to talk about it more when they get involved in a sport I love.
So is it mental gymnastics or glossing over? Either way it's irrelevant to me and my support for Manchester City. Just as it was irrelevant to most rival football fans before it became a stick to beat City fans with.
I've read Andy's post and he's said he doesn't give a shit about the middle east, nowhere has he tried to justify our owners as people (if you are referring to the post above mine). He has said as owners they've been good for City and I don't think anyone can argue that point. I for one will admit to while thinking "hey our owners are shitty HR abusers", I just don't care all that much because it doesn't effect me. Harsh but true.
He is also right in that there weren't half as many Human Rights activists on the Caf before Pep... I've been here 3 years now and before Pep I don't remember seeing a thread on the Abu Dhabi royal family and their wrong doings in any of the non football forums (though their may have been one on the Issa torture video)
I never said the guy form Abu Dhabi was right or wrong, I just pointed out he was the only one I know who came out and openly defended Mansour on his HR record.
'You're ran by an oppressive, evil and brutal regime' is a pretty big stick though in fairness. More like a log.
You're not going to have any argument with me about the UAE's domestic policies, as I've said above, I'm under absolutely no illusions about them. It just has no impact on my support for City, and I don't really understand what you're expecting. That City fans abandon the club? That we protest the UAE's domestic policies?
As fans we had no choice when Thaksin took us over, we had no choice when ADUG took us over. And we'll have no choice whenever ADUG decide to get rid either. But I'll still be there supporting the club regardless.
Can we all stop pretending there’s a rivalry here?
I want these to win week in-week out if it stops Liverpool winning the league.
I want these to win week in-week out if it stops Liverpool winning the league.
I'm sure they thought they'd have it wrapped up by now. Interesting to see how Pep reacts.
I dont think they thought that. And if they did it would be a mistake.
I dont see we'll see any changes or anything but it surely makes Pep think.
A lot will happen from now on but the game in January will be huge.
There are 22 games left to play mate, it's not exactly the time to overthink stuff.
Nah. Pep isn't that complacent ever
Honestly, I feel like this result has been creeping up on them for a while now. They have been looking vulnerable for a couple of weeks now, the Lyon game was the first occasion I realized that they are currently struggling a bit and the PL games seemed to confirm that. Good for the league I would say.
Pretty sure the league will remain a two-horse race between City and Liverpool to the end.
Pretty sure the league will remain a two-horse race between City and Liverpool to the end.
Dominated today. If it were anybody other than liverpool id be hoping for a meltdown but city getting another title is somehow easier to stomach as it doesnt really mean much
Agreed!
People talking about this side as being the best PL team is laughable.
They’ll win the league easily but it isn’t hard when there’s only one other competitor.
so, they are not invincible, huh? because each week, I always see they won, won and won again. damn, now pool is on the top. feck!
Excellent team but would struggle with their low resilience in the serie A. Midtable finish more likely...
Over-rated and soft. The notion that they're the best team in Europe is, and has always been laughable.
Guardiola should've played a proper striker from the get go.
Glad to see them lose, but hope Liverpool don't win the PL.
Guardiola should've played a proper striker from the get go.
Glad to see them lose, but hope Liverpool don't win the PL.
I really want to see them against Atletico in the Champions League. I feel Atletico would be their kryptonite. A great defensive team with good ball players going forward. Be interesting to see if Atletico could smother them over 2 legs.
Probably, especially when City shit themselves away in the CL in a hostile environment as usual.
Glad they lost. Hope there's a genuine title race this year.
Overreactions galore.
We're City. We don't do smug unlike some in 2014
Wenger is sitting there smug tonight, can't see Liverpool going all season unbeaten, the fact remains that City are a very good side, but don't have the tactical nous to change things when their star players aren't performing.
That comes from the manager and the players they have brought.
Usually a bit of magic from an individual is enough to win a game when they are playing poor, but if that doesn't happen then they only have like for like changes, no plan b.
That comes from the manager and the players they have brought.
Usually a bit of magic from an individual is enough to win a game when they are playing poor, but if that doesn't happen then they only have like for like changes, no plan b.
I would welcome any event that would bring salty tears down their eyes. They needed a reality check that indeed they are not invincible.
I still think they will win the league but anyone who thinks Liverpool won't challenge them this season has got to be kiddding. Lets see how they react to the pressure especially now that they have a lot of key players injured.
I still think they will win the league but anyone who thinks Liverpool won't challenge them this season has got to be kiddding. Lets see how they react to the pressure especially now that they have a lot of key players injured.
Well now things get interesting 
They lost their first league game of the season. They certainly aren't perfect but not sure how much this loss proves. It seems like City and us are currently a step ahead of the rest of the top 6 but I still think both teams will drop a few points and maybe losses to the other 4, who each have more than their own fair share of quality. Don't think City will get 100 points again for that reason.
In the last couple of weeks I could see that they're only human, despite what some people were saying about them. They got through a few games where they werent playing that well but today Chelsea were able to expose them.
Please don't let those horrible Scousers win the league.
Tbh they should be top still. Rest of the top 4 have had crazy amounts of luck in many games this season.
Stamford Bridge is always a nightmare to play in, probably worst stadium in England for any away team without a particular reason, so I won't put much into this loss for them.