Fine, if this is your generic "government flailing around with one of their manifesto commitments" unravellings. But this one happens to be something that's going to shape the country for the next generation or two, and if it carries on descending into "chaos", self-inflicted by the Tories or not, we're all gonna pay.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Labour should not say a word until uk is out or there is a ge. Let the cons be responsible for this and dont get involved, just stoke the hornets nest now and then.
It'd be interesting is suddenly May resigns.
She's been so anti Referendum 2 that I find it unlikely.
It'd be a shame, comedy value alone
What a shambles eh? Politics on full display, disheartening and dishonest.... Disgraceful.
Eastenders about to start, far more realistic than politics
Less shouting, less violent and less miserable than the HoC.
Soubry will probably do it as easily as she managed to convince the people at the second People's Vote march that she's concerned about vulnerable people after Brexit, 3 days after she'd voted to keep the Universal Credit rollout risk assessment private. Or how she's managing to reinvent herself as a champion of the EU, despite voting once out of 15 attempts in favour of EU nationals' right to remain in the UK, to 12 times against and 3 times in favour of the UK's membership of the EU, to 13 times against it. Hell, Soubry took to James O'Brien's show on LBC to say she'd prefer a no-deal Brexit to a Labour government last week and People's Vote haven't disowned her yet. Grieve even managed to survive voting against his own amendment, so I can't see this being a problem for either of them.
Every single person on that list has been vocal in their complaints that Labour prioritise an election over a second referendum. The minute the results of the vote are read and May wins, it'll be a race to see which of them is the first to any TV or radio live microphone within a 50 mile radius to say "Look, we tried to get rid of May and we can't. Time for a second referendum". They know a no confidence vote now will lose, they want it to lose, they just don't want to be the ones who table it. They have absolutely no interest in getting rid of the Tories.
That's precisely my view. I hate people saying 'Corbyn's playing a blinder sitting back as the government falls apart'. The whole fecking country will burn if he can't somehow force a change of government or policy.
I read Ninjafletch's post and I think Corbyn should do something and I read other posts and I think Labour should hold on and let this government destroy themselves. 
Although I'm not living in England so I'm not affected by this immediately.
Although I'm not living in England so I'm not affected by this immediately.
So tomorrow... Will the government tomorrow give the opportunity to vote on pulling the vote?
Or will they talk out the motion (essentially a filibuster)
The speaker seemed fairly forceful that they should do the former... But there would surely be a big risk in doing so.
That said when there is eventually a meaningful vote it will be the speaker who selects the amendments that can be voted on and perhaps in the longer term that's a bigger risk?
Or will they talk out the motion (essentially a filibuster)
The speaker seemed fairly forceful that they should do the former... But there would surely be a big risk in doing so.
That said when there is eventually a meaningful vote it will be the speaker who selects the amendments that can be voted on and perhaps in the longer term that's a bigger risk?
Nationalising that water though...
Anti offering remain as a choice.
Besides which, May on an almost weekly basis does something she claimed she would never do.
Not to mention. We're already at this point. If Labour's 'policy' was to let the Conservatives pull themselves to pieces then congratulations, we're there. They've lurched from one near unprecedented defeat to an unprecedented defeat and it's changed nothing.
I just wish you'd waited so I could correct my typos before quoting me, ha.
And it costs nothing to find out, and we can go from there. On the other hand there's a very real risk that your defeatist assumption that Labour would lose the vote gets us one step closer to no deal. History won't forget Corbyn's role in it if that happens.
Yes it does seem a bit 'forest for the trees...'
Corbyn could be the leader of the only party in a one party state and still lose the election.
So if I'm more positive, the Tories who can't be bothered to rally hard enough to trigger a party leadership challenge will vote against May? Even Anna Soubry, who also on James O'Brien's show last week tried to make out that (other than Brexit) the Tories were doing great things, will vote against May? Is that all that's been stopping the Tories from being defeated, me knowing how two-faced Tory twats work?
Brexit Secretary has just ran off 
Yeah but that would be Anna Soubry's fault, obviously.
Great so we have Brexit, violate the GFA and borderline expropriate a major asset. Then we deregulate to hell and become a tax haven. Pariah status incoming.
I read Ninjafletch's post and I think Corbyn should do something and I read other posts and I think Labour should hold on and let this government destroy themselves.
Although I'm not living in England so I'm not affected by this immediately.
Problem is, the government has been destroying itself for a year and nothing's changed. It might, under any normal scenario, be a good play, but we're far beyond normal.
It doesn't matter if it's them or backbenchers. It doesn't matter if they're Remainers or hardline cultist No Dealers, it doesn't matter if they're pissed and stagger in to the wrong lobby. We're talking wafer thin margins and almost unprecedented hostility from within the Conservative party towards their own leader.
They may fall into line and vote with the government, but then they would be the ones who should be criticised. Failing to even attempt to exploit absolutely blatant divisions in the Conservative party at the cost of absolutely nothing is a gigantic missed opportunity.
What?
He was there to take questions on his A50 revokation statement. Gave the same diversionary response 3 times and then before the next MP could stand up he ran off.
The two people you picked out earlier have already done just that when given a chance to bring the government down on Brexit and they will do so again. As Soubry said on LBC, 'Corbyn is a much greater threat to our country [than Brexit]. No doubt at all.'
Don't see how any of this resolved amicably..
1. NI backstop option will never pass parliament
2. EU won't accept deal without backstop..
3. Could do second referendum.. but then you ignite a political civil war.. what's to stop a third referendum if remain wins?
The only way it could work is if the EU compromises on the backstop.. but realisitically there's no feasible way to align NI and Ireland trade without border checks in the case of a no deal. The only way really everything works in terms of trade is if the UK remains, but then you go against the first referendum and a lot of the Conservative leavers.. very messy.. as you'd expect in a situation where half the country wants to leave and half wants to remain, more than half of politicians want to remain but a significant amount want to carry out the result of the referendum.. and the EU have no incentive to comprimise.. very hard to see how a deal is done.
I think 90% of what goes through parliament will be rejected as there's no real solution to the NI issue.. so the most likely outcome will be a No Deal. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. I'd love to short the pound but just too many variables to really be certain of how it plays out.
1. NI backstop option will never pass parliament
2. EU won't accept deal without backstop..
3. Could do second referendum.. but then you ignite a political civil war.. what's to stop a third referendum if remain wins?
The only way it could work is if the EU compromises on the backstop.. but realisitically there's no feasible way to align NI and Ireland trade without border checks in the case of a no deal. The only way really everything works in terms of trade is if the UK remains, but then you go against the first referendum and a lot of the Conservative leavers.. very messy.. as you'd expect in a situation where half the country wants to leave and half wants to remain, more than half of politicians want to remain but a significant amount want to carry out the result of the referendum.. and the EU have no incentive to comprimise.. very hard to see how a deal is done.
I think 90% of what goes through parliament will be rejected as there's no real solution to the NI issue.. so the most likely outcome will be a No Deal. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. I'd love to short the pound but just too many variables to really be certain of how it plays out.
I'm sure somehow it would be Blair's fault...
He's far too busy somehow being the poster boy for a movement that is trying to make mass marches through London into events politicians shouldn't ignore, with a straight face. That's before we get onto his lucrative work with the House of Saud.
example
[ig-zam-puh l, -zahm-]
noun
- one of a number of things, or a part of something, taken to show the character of the whole
- a pattern or model, as of something to be imitated or avoided
- an instance serving for illustration; specimen
There's some weird conversations going on regarding no confidence. MPs do on occasion vote against their own party's official line, they also call for a new party leader sometimes, but it's extremely unlikely any would vote against their own party in a no confidence motion, and no one would seriously expect them to do so. What Corbyn could do is persuade the other opposition parties to join him and vote no confidence, and there are enough of them to win, although he would have to time it for when the DUP were so pissed off with May they would join him. Or bribe them, whichever.
It doesnt matter how many partys there are, people will still vote a tory govt in cos they are thick. Then they can blame their stupidity in there not being any opposition, bit like now .
No one is arguing otherwise. We're full-blown in the midst of a constitutional crisis, though, and that tends to make weird things happen.
I mean France rioted and got what they wanted plus increased minimum wage.....so....balaclava time?
Sounds like a comedy sketch
David Icke made a great point recently regarding the direction of the Labour party over the past 10-15 years. He says that the Labour Party was formed to protect the urban, working-class, people from the 'elite'. But people like Blair, & dare I say it, Corbyn, are now becoming the elite. There isn't that much democracy anymore here in the western world. We basically have 2 choices, with neither of them really offering anything that remotely resembles a brighter future. I shudder to think what the years ahead will hold for my children & my grandchildren if the EU's plans for a superstate come to fruition. We have very little say in what happens now regarding our country's affairs. It's little wonder that people are looking to the extreme choices in order for their voices to be heard.
Not really sure how you can call Corbyn "elite", misguided and ineffective perhaps but "elite" seems like a square peg in round hole.
Surely you should be Corbyn's biggest fan since he is trying to protect your grandchildren from the super duper scary EU superstate. I mean if that's your biggest fear for them then frankly they're quite lucky!
My problem with him is not his party or politics, it's my opinion of him as a leader. He also always seems to be reading speeches, badly, nothing off the cuff.
What if Labour were currently in power, they'd be having even more ridiculous negotiations with the EU negotiating for more impossible targets.
The Tories are at their weakest at this moment with the most terrible leader since the war and he still can't look good.
One can see the UK heading for a No deal and someone's going to have to pick up the pieces. Is this the job Corbyn wants?
DUP said they'll support a censor motion against May but I'm assuming that almost means they won't support a no confidence vote.
Emergency debate been granted for tomorrow.
Emergency debate been granted for tomorrow.
The cnuts in r/UKpolitics got me so excited for a second with their giddiness for SO24. Turns out it doesn’t have any meaningful impact apart from soundbites.