Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Piers Morgan is so annoying.
Everyone likes a good conspiracy theory, so how do you feel about the idea that Theresa May, who was a 'remainer', has simply set out to sabotage Brexit? Consider the following;
- she had a workable majority, which would most likely have been enough to secure some sort of Brexit, so she decided to call an election.
- the election was an open goal, so she ran the worst campaign I can ever remember, and succeeded in screwing it up - no more majority.
- she appointed someone with all the charisma of a wet weekend as her Brexit secretary.
- whatever she may have said publicly, she nevertheless made it appear that the UK desperately wanted to do a deal, thereby completely undermining our negotiating position with the EU.
- she went behind the back of her new Brexit secretary, who actually seemed to have some notion of what the job entailed, to agree a position with the EU that she knew she couldn't sell at home.
Incidentally, her predecessor, also very much a 'remainer', is also guilty in part for the current mess: the Bill that paved the way for the referendum should have included a mandate for action based on the outcome, but it didn't. I actually think this was down more to incompetence than to any hidden agenda to avoid Brexit by any means possible.
I voted for Brexit (no, I'm not a racist and neither was I daft enough to believe the lies told on both sides of the referendum argument), and I would vote for it again. I was overjoyed when the result came through, but have always thought that the outcome would somehow be sabotaged. At no point have I ever thought the chances of Brexit happening were better than even, and right now I have zero confidence in it happening.
The European Court ruling that the UK could unilaterally withdraw Article 50 is hugely significant, and probably a pointer to how this will play out.
- she had a workable majority, which would most likely have been enough to secure some sort of Brexit, so she decided to call an election.
- the election was an open goal, so she ran the worst campaign I can ever remember, and succeeded in screwing it up - no more majority.
- she appointed someone with all the charisma of a wet weekend as her Brexit secretary.
- whatever she may have said publicly, she nevertheless made it appear that the UK desperately wanted to do a deal, thereby completely undermining our negotiating position with the EU.
- she went behind the back of her new Brexit secretary, who actually seemed to have some notion of what the job entailed, to agree a position with the EU that she knew she couldn't sell at home.
Incidentally, her predecessor, also very much a 'remainer', is also guilty in part for the current mess: the Bill that paved the way for the referendum should have included a mandate for action based on the outcome, but it didn't. I actually think this was down more to incompetence than to any hidden agenda to avoid Brexit by any means possible.
I voted for Brexit (no, I'm not a racist and neither was I daft enough to believe the lies told on both sides of the referendum argument), and I would vote for it again. I was overjoyed when the result came through, but have always thought that the outcome would somehow be sabotaged. At no point have I ever thought the chances of Brexit happening were better than even, and right now I have zero confidence in it happening.
The European Court ruling that the UK could unilaterally withdraw Article 50 is hugely significant, and probably a pointer to how this will play out.
Quite genuinely the nicest word I've seen used to describe Piers Morgan in years. Which I think technically makes you an awful person by default. Sorry.
While it's not unreasonable to suggest that a botched Brexit might be a path to avoiding it altogether I fear you're giving the people in power far too much credit.
It’s a disgrace. I don’t think she has any ambition to lead the party into the next election. She just wanted to steer us through brexit find a way to arrive at the the best solution all round. People say she’s trying to hang on to power. If that is the case, I don’t think she is doing that for herself. She believes that all the alternatives i.e other Tory leaders or other governments would be much worse. If you remember she went before the 1922 committee after the disasterous election and said that she’d serve as long as they wanted her to. She was quite prepared to go then. They banged the tables in rapturous applause and told her she had their backing. I don’t think she’s power mad I think she genuinely cares about the fate of the uk in this debacle and wants to make it as painless as possible. She should go to the commons and challenge the gutless lazy tossers to do their worst. You never know she might win. And then even win the commons VNC if Corbyn brings one.
You're probably right enough there!
As a counter to that, I would say that 'power' takes many forms, and there are lots of rich and powerful people in this country who made it clear that they would do whatever it took to avoid Brexit. Some of those people are a lot smarter than our current crop of MPs.
It might be unpopular to mention this in this thread but feck it I would really like to discuss in reasonable fashion a couple of points/ questions.
So it doesn't say in the Good Friday agreement that the UK and Ireland have to remain in the EU, Single market or the Customs Union.
Article 50 was written after the Good Friday agreement.
If as many here say the UK isn't allowed to introduce a border in Ireland because of the GF agreement and the EU won't allow an open border then article 50 is a nonsense isn't it? If the UK isn't allowed then what is the point of having a procedure to leave which the UK could trigger let alone a referendum to decide whether to leave?
Paul TW think of the reasonable fashion part like a hard border with you on the other side.
So it doesn't say in the Good Friday agreement that the UK and Ireland have to remain in the EU, Single market or the Customs Union.
Article 50 was written after the Good Friday agreement.
If as many here say the UK isn't allowed to introduce a border in Ireland because of the GF agreement and the EU won't allow an open border then article 50 is a nonsense isn't it? If the UK isn't allowed then what is the point of having a procedure to leave which the UK could trigger let alone a referendum to decide whether to leave?
Paul TW think of the reasonable fashion part like a hard border with you on the other side.
That's a very valid and fair counter. It would seem they weren't clever enough, however, to foresee the result of having our european future decided by referendum!
Somehow got into a mass work debate about whether you'd go down on May for 20 minutes to avoid Brexit or not.
I'd rather mass debate.
Sounds like a Black Mirror plot.
and would you?
Because the EU is more powerful than Ireland it would surely be the good Friday agreement that makes way. Not that I agree with it, however if we're going to leave the EU then it's basically a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland or they use the Irish sea as a divide. The second seems even harder to envisage at the moment.
RAWK said:
You don't need a conspiracy when incompetence is so abundantly available.
Just revoke A50 FFS. Even if you liked the idea of leave in the largely fact free run up to the referendum surely people can now see the reality is a fecking stupid idea?
This is like we voted to take a tourist drive in Western Ireland to the Aran Islands and the GPS is glitching so that the tourist bus will drive straight over the Cliffs of Moher to get there and most who voted that way are saying "it is shit we are all going to die but we voted to go to the Aran Islands and it would be undemocratic not to die now".
This is like we voted to take a tourist drive in Western Ireland to the Aran Islands and the GPS is glitching so that the tourist bus will drive straight over the Cliffs of Moher to get there and most who voted that way are saying "it is shit we are all going to die but we voted to go to the Aran Islands and it would be undemocratic not to die now".
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@Steerpike what were the Remain lies?
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way isn’t it?
*Cliffs
Woops.
Working her arse of to roll a turd in glitter now that the polishing committee have admitted defeat?
If one of my reports works really hard doing something stupid and doomed to failure I don't simply praise their hard work.
Anna Sourby MP said something similar on Good Morning Britain a few days back.
There weren't any. It was the leave campaign that lied, and the leavers lapped it up to hide their true motivation, ImmIGrAtiON!
Forgetting of course that we badly need immigration to help our economy as we're an aging population.
I have honestly never heard a good, well thought out reason for leaving. All i ever hear is "getting control back" (i guess enforced workers and human rights are inconvenient to the majority of the voting public) or getting rid of foreigners like we don't need them. Even the most basic of issues like fresh fruit and veg will br a cluster feck if we leave on a no deal. We'd have to renegotiate a worse deal with the eu to buy theirs, or fecking fly them in from god knows where. With the increase in prices we might not all be living in mansions made of gold.
Nah. No conspiracy. I just think that the whole mess has shown how incompetent the government and most MPs are, from not understanding how trade works to not understanding how the EU actually works.
Yet you’ve voted to give these people complete power of how they shape the country without guidance - good luck with that
To counter that, there are a bunch of rich and powerful people who stand to make a lot of money from brexit. Just look who funded the brexit campaign for example
Apparently leavers would live in mud huts as long as they “take back control”
I’d love for every EU funded building or project to magically disappear so they see what an even bigger shithole their towns will look like. Ghost towns
No confidence vote going in after PMQ?
BBC News - May to face leadership challenge
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739
BBC News - May to face leadership challenge
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739
She's gone then! Hurrah! Now to see who the next idiot is, at least they won't try and circumvent parlaiment.
One of the all time worst prime ministers.
One of the all time worst prime ministers.
I think she will survive...
Almost unthinkable the mps could agree one one replacement...
Equally unthinkable that they will want a circa 10-12 week leadership election at the moment
So I think she will survive
Yeah think there is a very good chance.
Best case scenario: she survives, DUP withdraws support, and Corbyn then goes for a VoNC that leads to a GE or People’s Vote, with a delay to the March 29 date.
This worries me. What if we end up with a Brexiteer that pushes us into a no deal?
Yeah my biggest fear with the whole process.
The last vote of no confidence vote i remember ended with palpatine in charge and that was a fecking disaster. Not sure this is great news.
Unlike Ireland, the UK has been a net contributor to the EU for decades. It's been a net outflow of cash offshore of billions.
It would be nice if May won the vote and, being immune from a challenge by the ERG for a year, took the opportunity to pursue a softer Brexit/second referendum by cooperating with the opposition parties. Unfortunately her anti-immigration fixation makes that a fantasy.
I will never understand why any non prejudiced people would’ve voted leave if they were supposedly smart enough to see through the lies in the first place.
What are some actual positives of leaving? Honest question.
Edit: sorry I’m not trying to say all leavers are dumb or prejudiced. I’m just saying I don’t understand.
What are some actual positives of leaving? Honest question.
Edit: sorry I’m not trying to say all leavers are dumb or prejudiced. I’m just saying I don’t understand.
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I think she survives... But if not and either Johnson or mogg get to the postal vote I think they would win easily.
Then yeah it will be hard brexit and send the royal navy to Gibraltar... Presumably make britain great again plus build a wall in Ireland and make the EU pay for it
Hopefully the conservative MPs are a little more selective if who gets to the last 2
I expect
Raab gove Davies javid mogg and Johnson would look at running... Possibly more than that even
The UK has, notably London, but the likes of Wales, NI, and parts of England (that voted to leave, funnily enough) are some of the highest recipients of funding per capita in the EU. If the UK has a hard brexit and loses trade then they will lose far, far more money than what they've put into the EU in net terms.
Basically, as usual, it's the deprived areas that will suffer the most.