When you look at the parliamentary arithmetic, even Brexiteers might come round to that idea - it could be their best chance of getting a hard Brexit.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
No mate, waterford whispers is basically the Irish version of The Onion.What do you mean, keep calling for referendums.
Now the facts are on the table, it is only fair that people have the opportunity to have another go and make the right choice.
Do you think that once a government is elected, that's that, you are stuck with them until they are beaten in a war? You do realise, that's exactly how Nazi Germany started?
Are you saying that the migration of EU nationals to the UK, via Ireland, in a post-Brexit world would be a big issue? Anyone entering the country in that way would have the same status as an illegal immigrant from anywhere else in the world. Given that such migrants (EU citizens) could legally live and work in any EU country, I really don't see many choosing to eke out some kind of twilight existence in the UK.
Then the country deserves everything it gets.
It's like a slow death. My job isn't safe, I'm already working on emigrating if I have to. I'm just sick of the whole thing.
A small part of me wants us to crash out and these people suffer. But the real culprits won't even have a scratch.
Yes but it doesn't get past parliament refuses no deal.
If Leave win again, then you can’t argue with it. It’s a much clearer position, we all know what we are voting for and despite all that, a majority still want to leave but they should do so in the knowledge that in 10 or 15 years time the main demographic which voted to leave will have thinned out and there’s a good chance the public will push to rejoin the EU / especially if we suffer economically over the next decade or so, which it’s obvious we will.
If that happens, we won’t be a special case like we are now and we would definitely have to adopt the Euro.
I'm referring to the West Lothian question
I know, I was joking, it must be scary that the country is being led by lunatics but as always the people responible for the problems will not be affected.
Well, presumably it would be a specific form of Leave rather than just a copy of the previous referendum question, which would make the mandate more specific. Honestly, though, the full understanding of the scale of No Deal is lacking. Some people have even responded to pollsters saying they thought 'No Deal' meant leaving and keeping the *status quo* arrangements, like coming to 'No Deal' over buying a car and walking away no poorer.
Yet opinion polls in Greece heavily favour the eu. Also comparing Greece to the UK is one of the stupidest things about this whole thing. Do you know what the UK world standing is compared to Greece? Do you know their political structure?
Why not compare the UK to countries which it is actually comparable to ? France and Germany for example. We aren't Greece or Poland or those level of countries.
You know what. I think Britain needs a referendum on whether to have a second vote referendum. I am not kidding. I think this is the strongest course of action to take to try and stop Brexit while still respecting democratic values.
40%+ are still Brexiteers. I am sure some of the Remainers would be against a second vote out of respect to Democracy in their view. Thus This preliminary referendum results would be close, but if the result was" yes for a 2nd vote" , it would provide immense democratic justification and levarage for anyone who calls for a second vote on Brexit.
40%+ are still Brexiteers. I am sure some of the Remainers would be against a second vote out of respect to Democracy in their view. Thus This preliminary referendum results would be close, but if the result was" yes for a 2nd vote" , it would provide immense democratic justification and levarage for anyone who calls for a second vote on Brexit.
Yes, agreed but I don't see how parliament can say they won't accept no deal. Without May's deal it's either no deal or cancel Brexit and I don't see parliament cancelling Brexit.
For sure many people do not understand what no deal means (or what Brexit means for that matter) but there are only three possible outcomes which are No Deal, May's deal or cancel Brexit and No deal will always be a possibility and I don't see how parliament can prevent it.
A referendum on whether to have a referendum about reversing the results of the first referendum?
This direct democracy lark isn't what it's cracked up to be.
Cheers
You should check out more of the articles. This captures perfectly the whole Brexit shambles for me.
Cheers
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/20...not-sure-exactly-what-it-sort-of-doesnt-want/
The purpose of the original post wasn't to compare the UK and Greece - the latter was simply used as an illustration of how, in the EU, central control has taken precedence over local democracy.
The point about the majority of Greek people favouring the EU is valid, but they also voted in a government which stood on a platform opposing what was viewed as EU imposed austerity. An odd contradiction, but probably indicative of the position they were in - suffering under the cuts forced on them by the EU, but also believing that their problems would be worse outside the EU.
What do you mean, keep calling for referendums.
Now the facts are on the table, it is only fair that people have the opportunity to have another go and make the right choice.
Do you think that once a government is elected, that's that, you are stuck with them until they are beaten in a war? You do realise, that's exactly how Nazi Germany started?
The problem when a government is elected it rules for some time. Only afterwards you may remove it, through early elections for example. Brexit has not materialized yet. You are still in the EU. That's the difference.
Yes.
You are asking for a second vote. That's the main contentious decision. So you need a referendum on it itself. The people's vote would give the mandate for such a contentious line of action.
What can you do? I felt like crying listening to this.
What do these 48 letters say? Are they form letters or is it stuff like 'out with the hag!'
The first part of the vote is the confidence one and if she get 49% she goes. It means that 51% have rejected her out-of-hand as party leader.
Then the leadership thing kicks in but each candidate has not been subject to a confidence vote of the whole party. So they start from a notional ranking position. Votes are cast and those with the lowest disappear the the remainers are voted on and if your guy/gal gets voted off you need to pick your next best candidate. Until 2 are left then the wider party members get to vote.
May will win tonight's vote. We'll not be getting a second referendum or alternatively, Brexit is cancelled. Going forward if Brexit goes ahead then the UK will be minus Scotland in a few years and more border backstop disputes.
You keep pushing this idea but that's not the immediate actions available at all.
Take no deal off the table and you still have A50 extension with or without a GE to find another deal and there are other deals they're just not better. You still have A50 revokation with or without a referendum/GE. You have a referendum over Mays Deal or Remain, the most likely i think.
Just because the deals won't pass parliament doesn't mean these paths won't be explored.
The previous referendum on EU (or Common Market) membership was back in 1975, and the outcome was around 2 to 1 in favour. In the last referendum, older voters were identified as a key component of the victory for Brexit. It seems as if those who had originally been so in favour of membership had changed their minds.
If we do actually leave, and being outside the EU becomes the new 'normal', then it would come as no surprise if support for the EU went down in the younger demographic.
Brilliant! I'm putting the site on my favourites list.
What do you mean, keep calling for referendums.
Now the facts are on the table, it is only fair that people have the opportunity to have another go and make the right choice.
Do you think that once a government is elected, that's that, you are stuck with them until they are beaten in a war? You do realise, that's exactly how Nazi Germany started?
The facts were on the table before the vote. The lies being peddled by Boris, Farage etc. are no different than any other general election and they’ll be no different in a second referendum. Cameron’s stability turned out to be the crock of shit that led to this mess.
That’s also really not how Nazi Germany started at all.
If you leave I would see a good few years of austerity and poor economic performance. Increased unemployment in the country would lead to large scale emigration and you losing your younger demographic. If it's a big downturn you could see a big swing to the right or the left.
Yeh, but you need to try and get that phrase in a post, from time to time.
Yes. And the EU have said they will extend A50 to accommodate a May's Deal vs Remain referendum. I don't think they will do that if No-Deal is on the ballot.
The point is your example of Greece doesn't work simply because we don't have to join the Eurozone because we are a much stronger country than Greece. Then this is the real point you need to understand what really messed greece up is not the EU, it was it's horrible problem of governments constantly coming in and lying about the countries national debt so they could continue to spend happily without any sanctions. Then they got called on it and went to get loans, but because their levels of trust were soo low they had to take horrible interest loans which crippled and indebted the country. Once the economic crisis happened Greece would then obviously be put in a worse situation as their two biggest industries which are tourism and shipping go down the drain during any recession.
So the EU is not responsible for it. The actual people running the country are responsible. The country was run badly and by greedy people thats what happens normally to ruin most political and economic organisations.
Good call. WWN and fake showbiz news on twitter always guarantee a laugh!
I don’t get the concept of why a second referendum would be so contentious - it seems to be a line of argument coming from hard Brexiteers who fear June 2016 was their only chance and cynical Tory and (to a lesser extent) Labour politicians trying to hold their disparate party coalitions together. A second vote, based on real choices rather than fantasies, is the equivalent of a statutory cooling off period after you got pissed on holiday and bought a timeshare. It’s all the more important in this case because a return to the pre-Brexit status quo would be impossible if we leave.
If Leave win again, knowing what we know now, then I think that would be the end of the matter, however awful the consequences.
I'm thinking towards the end result and I'm thinking of the current MPs who are in parliament on all sides.
You could have A50 revocation or extension - but who is going to do this?
You could have a referendum - No deal/May's deal/Remain - who's going to allow this? No deal has to be part of any referendum.
I don't see another deal.
I don't see either what extending A50 does either.
The only alternative I see to the situation is to cancel Brexit and quickly but nobody's going to do this.
This is all assuming that the only outcome to all this is Remain which none of the major parties want.
Tory Xmas party tonight should be a humdinger
What happens if remain wins by the same margin this time? Best two out of 3? First to 5?