New Gillette ad

MadMike said:
For what I gather, we are now in agreement that an advert is not a platform for discussion, but a subject. And therefore, accusing an ad of virtue signalling does not mean that we're de-platforming the subject or discouraging discussion on it, something we're quite merrily doing here and which was my point. Secondly we're also seemingly in agreement that it's disingenuous. What you're saying however, is that it's all right so long the message is positive and it achieves bringing the discussion onto the masses. What I'm challenging here is that the right message delivered in the wrong tone and by the wrong people can actually have a negative effect.

You also posit that the message must become a topic for discussion somehow otherwise how do we move on and progress? And that P&G are helping do this, offering the example of your 6th form discussions. I would argue that these subjects are not enhanced by corporations riding them for publicity. The BLM movement and Kaepernick's kneeling succeeded in bringing the problem of social injustice for African-Americans to the forefront, and hopefully to classrooms too. I don't think Nike's Kaepernick advert offered anything genuine beyond exposure for Nike, or that it enriched the discussion already being had. By definition a corporation will only endorse a message when it's calculated that the message resonates with the majority of its customer base and therefore have a positive financial impact. And in cases of large multinationals where their customer base is basically... everyone, it means they've accepted this message is the mainstream view. The subject of toxic masculinity has been in the news for some time, started by the #MeToo movement, if this hasn't reached classrooms then we're in trouble. Gillette are not on anything new here.

As for the subtlety question, it depends who you are trying to reach. You take the approach that the injustice suffered by the victims means it should be screamed loudly and boldly from every platform until the message drills home. It's a combative approach and I agree that loud and bold is great for bringing an issue to the front of the agenda. You can't always be timid. It's also great for putting pressure on politicians. Once a subject becomes mainstream though, you gotta be a more careful and selective about screaming it in people's faces and more selective about where the message comes from and how. The ones who are already on your side, why are you screaming it at for? The ones who are resilient to change will they be screamed down? Unlikely. You either write them off or you work on a more subtle way to educate them and change them over to your views over time. Horses for courses sort of thing.
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I disagree, adverts have a history of being a platform for discussion and I gave examples of ads which do that with no societal or political undertone, I fail to see how this is different.

I didn't accuse you of de-platforming but you are discouraging discussion - I actually don't think you've discussed anything about the ad, except to criticise it's intention. You said you agree with the message, but what about the message do you agree with?
How do you believe men are being toxic in their masculinity? Have you been, or are you currently doing the same thing? Do you recognise the behaviours in others and seek to correct it?
It's very easy to say "great message" on a topic which so obviously falls on the right side of social justice - but it's another thing to actually dissect the topic and have uncomfortable conversations about it.

More people are concerned with whether P&G are doing this to line their pockets, or generate hashtags - and my question is why?
Any advert they put out will have a sole intention to line their pockets, at least this advert isn't the only intention of this particular advert - and surely change must start from somewhere?
Nike's revenue increased by 30% IIRC.
Maybe in lieu of the Kaepernick issue, perhaps it increased because Kanye's stunts at adidas turned more adidas customers to Nike instead, maybe it increased because of the World Cup - the Nigerian jersey's alone sold 3m - maybe it was all of those things?
The point is for company's as big as Nike and P&G, their revenue's can be influenced by any number of issues so signalling out positive ads such as this as only being motivated by money - is short sighted. P&G will continue to be one of the biggest global companies - at least they are using their brand for something good, and that should be applauded, should it not? Should company's only sell their products, if so why? If not, then this is how they go beyond selling just their products.

I think if someone is genuinely on your side, they wouldn't care how the message is being sent so long as it's being sent. If they care more about whether you are subtle or not then they aren't truly on your side because they are questioning your motives at the first sign of discomfort for them.
 
utdalltheway said:
Also, thank god we have those two black guys stopping the two white men from being assholes :wenger:.
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I only noticed this after they put a white guy and girl in the rap video.

The message is good but could have been done more positively. I will always just roll my eyes to these corporations suddenly finding moral compasses and preaching their messages.
 
Wait people are now making this about race, because a few black guys were the good guys? :lol:

Welp that's my cue, enjoy brokflakes.
 
In a way the most pathetic thing about all these advertising campaigns are the easily manipulated hordes on social media - on the right and on the left - jumping into action tweeting and retweeting the fecking ad like crazy, then keeping it front and centre with a load of pointless bickering with each other. While the PR agency behind it rub their hands with glee.

You’ve been played, suckers!
 
I like the ad. In general I hate them and turn off the sound on the tv every time they start, but this at least has a nice message instead of the “Gillette5000 super razor with 5000 flying blades” or one of the never ending betting companies or how Tom and John have both won £1000 on Royalcasino.com.

Edit: It’s not gonna make me buy their product as I never use a razor, but it’s better than the rest.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
In a way the most pathetic thing about all these advertising campaigns are the easily manipulated hordes on social media - on the right and on the left - jumping into action tweeting and retweeting the fecking ad like crazy, then keeping it front and centre with a load of pointless bickering with each other. While the PR agency behind it rub their hands with glee.

You’ve been played, suckers!
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Says the guy discussing the video online, thus actively increasing interest in the video.
 
Firstly the ad itself is shockingly cringe. Secondly this is nothing more than a cynical publicity grab by a company that don't give two fecks about anything other than sales. All they want is a twitter war between two sets of total morons, and the media companies to cover it: Mission accomplished there.

On the actual politics of it, I don't have a problem with the idea of them highlighting the sexual harassment stuff, or the gang bullying the kid or whatever. But you can do that without the need for vacuous buzzwords like toxic masculinity. Or feeding into the ridiculous idea that we need to keep sanitising and medicating little boys until they act like little girls. The ads message would have been a lot stronger, with little to no controversy, if they hadn't let the feminist theorycrafting 101 bullshit seep in.
 
HTG said:
Says the guy discussing the video online, thus actively increasing interest in the video.
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Heh. Fair point. Although I don’t see why anyone would hear about this ad for the first time on the basis of my posts in this thread. If anyone on redcafe is guilty of flogging razors it’s @R.N7
 
Eyepopper said:
Given their social conscience I assume the next razor they'll be launching will be a reusable straight razor which can be resharpened and lasts for years?

I mean there's billions of disposable razors sold each year, such needless waste when the world is already drowning in plastic waste.
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Woke. Respect. :cool:
 
I dont have an opinion on the advert as its aimed at apparently backwards american men and not men from the civilized world.

I dont think they are backwards, but seemingly Gillete thinks all you yanks are stuck in the stone age and are a bunch or rapists and women haters, so sucks to be you I guess.
 
I saw this on the god awful This Morning, and for once I kind of agree with Piers. It is a cringey, virtue signalling pile of steaming shit. It's not the message that's the problem, it's how they've delivered it. If they made a Venus ad telling their customers to stop all the fake rape allegations, it would all seem a bit ridiculous.
 
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I've not watched the ad but if the underlying message is "Hey let's not sexually harass women and men need to call other men out for it" then I have no idea why anyone would be upset about it unless they're thick as shit or have done similar themselves. The BBC posted some tweets (which I really wish they'd stop doing) on their article and it's always from someone called something like John0934635473 clearly a bot or a shill paid to be pretend outraged by this stuff and 'boycotting' the company.
 
It's a bit cringey and transparent when any profit seeking organisation tries to get preachy in any regard tbh. They probably saw the whole kleenex thing and brain stormed their own campaign.
 
villain said:
Wait people are now making this about race, because a few black guys were the good guys? :lol:

Welp that's my cue, enjoy brokflakes.
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Yeah, the whole thing is not worth getting the knickers in a twist over this, by any stretch, but interesting that it showed up my Beeb news feed this morning.
Every week needs a new outrage! ;)
 
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Probably the worst ~2 minutes piece I've ever seen. SJWs gone completely mad.
 
Solius said:
I've not watched the ad but if the underlying message is "Hey let's not sexually harass women and men need to call other men out for it" then I have no idea why anyone would be upset about it unless they're thick as shit or have done similar themselves. The BBC posted some tweets (which I really wish they'd stop doing) on their article and it's always from someone called something like John0934635473 clearly a bot or a shill paid to be pretend outraged by this stuff and 'boycotting' the company.
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No-one is upset by the message, or shouldn't be anyway.

It's the big twattish corporation doing it in a finger wagging "you're all bastards" way that grates.
 
I like that they're deleting comments on their social media pages by the thousands, some of them are actually quite amusing I must admit.
 
It's so saccharine I wonder how anyone can take the execution seriously :lol:

It does seem pretty vogue to take a dump on the male gender at the moment. I think the outrage is justified to be honest, it's not like a video showing a bunch of women catcalling men, pinching blokes bottoms, fighting etc.. Then having the message be "put an end to toxic femininity" would be well received either.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
In a way the most pathetic thing about all these advertising campaigns are the easily manipulated hordes on social media - on the right and on the left - jumping into action tweeting and retweeting the fecking ad like crazy, then keeping it front and centre with a load of pointless bickering with each other. While the PR agency behind it rub their hands with glee.

You’ve been played, suckers!
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Exactly. Gillette have smashed this out of the park.
 
ivaldo said:
If they made a Venus ad telling their customers to stop all the fake rape allegations, it would all seem a bit ridiculous.
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The true equivalent would be if Veet made an ad telling women to "man up and start demanding that promotion at work", instead of just incessantly whining about the wage gap on twitter.
 
Seriously does that really make anyone wanna use Gillete? Weather or not you agree with them? Imagine being at a store looking at Gillete and Shick and thinking .... "Yeah, I wanna be the best a man can get"
 
I don't mind the fact that they are probably just doing it to promote a brand. Better to have a positive image used to promote a brand than the usual exploitation of insecurities.
 
hobbers said:
The true equivalent would be if Veet made an ad telling women to "man up and start demanding that promotion at work", instead of just incessantly whining about the wage gap on twitter.
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The same advertising agency made the "this girl can" adverts that were around a few years ago.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
In a way the most pathetic thing about all these advertising campaigns are the easily manipulated hordes on social media - on the right and on the left - jumping into action tweeting and retweeting the fecking ad like crazy, then keeping it front and centre with a load of pointless bickering with each other. While the PR agency behind it rub their hands with glee.

You’ve been played, suckers!
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I was thinking this, when was the last time anyone talked about Gillette before today?
 
Thought it was fine, outrage culture and bandwagonning commence. Ad shows some men who are assholes and some others that arent. I feel like people only watched the first 20 seconds then respond
 
MadMike said:
So... you don't disagree? :lol:

You've agreed that the message is fine but disagree on how it's conveyed. Fair enough, I actually agree with you that highlighting positive behaviour rather than showcasing and admonishing bad one is a more effective educationally. But I also disagree on who it's conveyed by and for what purpose. As @sullydnl brilliantly put it:



Procter & Gamble (Gillette's owning group) is public-listed, multi-national corporation and the only thing it cares about is bottom line. This is a commercial shot and put out at a cost, with no other aim than to increase their revenue. It can be hard for people to take moral lessons from corporations, especially lessons so crudely delivered. The advert might work for its intended purpose (revenue generation) but the method of delivery of the message could end up having a negative effect in the discussion of societal change we're having. And the thing is P&G won't give a toss, so long as the prime objective is met.
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Yeah probably :lol:

See, I don't want to get into the whole commercial agenda side of it. Most people who fight for any kind of cause for any reason, have some alterior reason of why they want to be noticed. I think being cynical is easy and, even though more than likely correct, a bit pointless.

I'd rather just concentrate on the message the advert sends out, or rather how it sends it out. I'm not sure who will watch this advert and be affected positively by it. Most likely no one at all, because it's filled with inaccuracy, borderline generalisation, and just plain silly ideas. It's a rubbish advert basically. It's all well and good that it's pissed off Piers Morgan, but it's not going to teach or prove him wrong about anything.

Cassidy said:
1. Men is their target audience why would they address girl on girl bullying?
2. Yes some men do stand there and laugh watching their kids fighting, in fact some even encourage it, video it, and put it on youtube.

I think their motives are likely disingenuous but there isn't anything wrong with the message.
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1) The point is that you don't insult your target audience. You also don't fix a problem by generalising it.

2) Yes but some people encourage and youtube all kinds of stupid shite. It doesn't mean it's a generally accepted way to behave. If I saw parents filming their kids fighting and laughing, I would think they were crackpots. It definitely isn't something I'd look at and think "men eh, when will they learn?"

We need an rvn said:
I agree with this part of what you said - however for that message to come across clearly for all, the PR gurus at Gillette thought they need to show the side that is not acceptable first because for some men it might not register what they are trying to say in the advert

Don't think the same impact would be achieved if had if they had shown a man holding the door open for an old lady or getting off their seat to let a pregnant woman sit down etc.
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Do you honestly think any man will watch this advert and behave more positively as a result though? I think if you highlight positive behaviours, and try to make those seem desirable, you at least have a chance. With this advert, you are just going to get people moaning about it, feeling insulted, baffled, or finding it funny because it has pissed off someone who they don't like (Piers Morgan).

And it's not just that, but the way this advert chooses to convey the problem is daft. It generalises types of behaviour that aren't typical of most men at all, and then asks us all to do something about it, as if we are all (men) to blame. It is telling me that every time I see a guy notice a girl is good looking, or coincidentally walks off behind her, I should presume he's going to harrass her in some way and tell him "not cool bro"...Imagine actually doing this. You'd get smacked in the face a lot and half the time if not more you would probably deserve it. It makes absolutely no sense and is the brainchild of someone who presumes the worst in you unless you are actively displaying otherwise.
 
Oof.

If they really wanted to make a statement they’d release an ad for female razors that don’t show a woman shaving an already shaven leg.

Have a girl with average legs and a week of stubble shave both legs to the exact height that her skirt comes down to. Then kick off a rocking day.

That’d be progressive.

Very canny advertising campaign. Piece of shit advert.
 
Seems to be a crime to be born a white male these days.
 
Finally got around to watching it. Surely it's this annoyingly preachy on purpose to generate a social media storm. I suspect they probably pay some people to light the outrage fire on twitter and reddit.

I doubt anyone in the real world will care though. Least of all me, I use disposable razors. They're more than enough for someone with the beard growth of a 6 yr old girl.
 
Garethw said:
Seems to be a crime to be born a white male these days.
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If it actually were, you might understand how insulting and incredibly stupid your statement is.
 
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