Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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And that’s all down to EU legalisation which is what you’re implying?

No. Not at all.
As far as I understand it each country that signed up to the Climate Change agreement has its own targets to reduce CO2 emissions.
 
Who does Donald Tusk think he is? We’ve always been so civil with these ‘EU dirty rats’
Telling EU leaders they’re like Hitler is exactly the sort of skilled diplomacy that has made these Brexit negotiations pass off so smoothly

How dare Donald Tusk be rude about “those who promoted Brexitwithout a plan to carry it out?” Those who promoted Brexit have gone out of their way for 30 years to use polite language about Europe, always well-mannered with the highest standards of decorum, because we’re British. We’re not like these rude foreign mental cases with their shitty croissants.

When Jeremy Hunt took Johnson’s place, instead of inflaming matters, like Donald Tusk, he told the EU it was behaving like the Soviet Union under Stalin, right in front of people who had been detained in Stalin’s gulags. If he’s right, this means the EU has arrested several million people who voted to leave, without a trial, and dumped them in a freezing Siberian prison. Across the wastelands of Russia there must be fields full of people from Stoke asking the guards, “Can you find out how we got on away at Ipswich?”
So Donald Tusk is being absolutely outrageous when he says the promoters of Brexit had “no plan”. The plan all along was for the first and then second negotiator to resign, for both to oppose the deal they negotiated, and the foreign secretary to resign, followed by half the cabinet, and for no one to have realised there would be a border with Ireland, and votes to be lost by record amounts, and for rehearsals for when 50,000 lorries are stuck in Kent and businesses to stockpile toilet rolls and insulin, and the government to be dependent on creationists, and plans made for the evacuation of the Queen until it could now be announced we’re in a customs union with The Jungle Book and all have to dance with bears, or Britain has been reclassified as a beehive and Arlene Foster is our queen.

Nobody is surprised, because everything’s going to plan.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...nson-jeremy-hunt-the-sun-stalin-a8767871.html
 
Nothing to see here, Brexit is going perfectly fine


And in the comments it links to an article about the government refusing legitimate FOI requests so we might never find out how much this whole saga cost.

I think the government can't refuse a legitimate foi request... Isn't that the entire point of foi... I'm no fan of may or this government but I'd suggest the twitter comment is likley to be "fake news" or "alternative facts"
 
I know Chris Grayling is the worst ever minister ever, but I'm genuinely struggling to think of even one thing he's done that was even on the verges of competent.

Can anyone think of anything that Chris Grayling has ever been involved if that was actually a success?

Or even just not an absolute fecking disaster?

There has to be at least one, right?

I think the government can't refuse a legitimate foi request... Isn't that the entire point of foi... I'm no fan of may or this government but I'd suggest the twitter comment is likley to be "fake news" or "alternative facts"

I think the accusation in the past is they're using legitimate reasons to reject (e.g. state secrets or whatever) to reject FoI requests which would simply be embarrassing for them.
 
I know Chris Grayling is the worst ever minister ever, but I'm genuinely struggling to think of even one thing he's done that was even on the verges of competent.

Can anyone think of anything that Chris Grayling has ever been involved if that was actually a success?
Showed up to work?
 
Not surprised a bitter, old fart like yourself doesn't give two shits about the state of the planet he'll be leaving for future generations.
Seems to be the most invested poster in here but keeps telling us he couldn't care less. Parody poster...
 
Farage confident Brexit won't happen. Well he's hoping it won't.

New Brexit party recognised
A new Brexit party, supported by Nigel Farage has been officially recognised by the Electoral Commission and is likely to win over thousands of Tory defectors, the Telegraph reports.

The party is called ...The Brexit Party. It says it will field candidates in England, Wales, Scotland and Europe.

The party leader is former Ukip candidate, Catherine Blaiklock, who the New European profiled her last month (it’s worth reading in full):

She is best-known for failing to win Great Yarmouth for UKIP in the 2017 general election despite an innovative campaign which saw her brandish a large photograph of her Jamaican husband at one hustings in an attempt to demonstrate that ’Kippers were not racist, later telling Vice “I sleep with somebody who is black.”

Her recent return to the limelight has provided equally startling quotes, with Blaiklock telling the Sun that “people feel treason has been committed” in the fight against Brexit ...

Blaiklock advised those on low income to heed the example of Sherpas in the Himalayas, who eat “practically nothing but boiled potatoes with a bit of salt and chilli on the side”.

The Telegraph says:

Farage, the former Ukip leader who is supporting the party, said “the engine is running” and he stood “ready for battle” to fight the Tories and Labour of the European Parliament elections are held.

Of course he is, knowing now that he will not get the Brexit he wants, he's eyeing up the EU elections as a means of keeping the Nigel Farage show going. However, for that to happen May has not only to delay Art 50, but revoke it completely and she will, because she has no other choice now; that is unless the EU caves in completely on the back stop... the 'chicken run' will continue right up to the wire, with Nigel cheering from the side-lines.
Farage's attempts at' king -making' in the Tory party, with the result of the referendum failed because the would be King, Boris Johnson, at the point of victory, lost his nerve and fled the field, or was scared off by Gove.
Nigel is looking to get another chance this time backing JRM. However, if by some miracle May does secure a deal of sorts, but which locks the UK potentially forever into the EU, then Farage has failed.

He is following the old adage "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day".
 
I think the accusation in the past is they're using legitimate reasons to reject (e.g. state secrets or whatever) to reject FoI requests which would simply be embarrassing for them.

They can't ... If you disagree it's your right to complain to the independent information commission officer who will then force the publication
 
As I say you simply then make the request to this ico who review the decision .... They can't block the info if it's a legitimate request

It's either not a legitimate request
Or the Ico releases the info

It's actually wrong to say the government can block legitimate requests

The legal process is you ask for the info
They decide if in their opinion it should be released... If you disagree you go to the Ico who then make the binding decisions

When the civil service send a letter saying they won't release the info they tell you it's not a binding decision and if you disagree you have the right to appeal...

I know this as I've made freedom of information requests... Only partially answered and therefore gone through the process.
 
As I say you simply then make the request to this ico who review the decision .... They can't block the info if it's a legitimate request

It's either not a legitimate request
Or the Ico releases the info

It's actually wrong to say the government can block legitimate requests

The legal process is you ask for the info
They decide if in their opinion it should be released... If you disagree you go to the Ico who then make the binding decisions

When the civil service send a letter saying they won't release the info they tell you it's not a binding decision and if you disagree you have the right to appeal...

I know this as I've made freedom of information requests... Only partially answered and therefore gone through the process.

Ok, I suppose then they're hoping will give up when they receive that letter and not follow through with ICO. Or, at least, delay the process as much as they can.

Edit: from a purely semantics point of view, if the ICO did rule in favour of releasing it in the end, then the government HAVE indeed tried to refuse a legitimate request :lol:
 
Ok, I suppose then they're hoping will give up when they receive that letter and not follow through with ICO. Or, at least, delay the process as much as they can.

Edit: from a purely semantics point of view, if the ICO did rule in favour of releasing it in the end, then the government HAVE indeed tried to refuse a legitimate request :lol:
Technically the "government" don't get these initial requests... The civil service does... And the person making the decision almost certainly takes the view if in doubt don't give the info and let the Ico make the decision... Yes I suspect some people don't follow through but it's very clear you can and very easy to do so.
 
Technically the "government" don't get these initial requests... The civil service does... And the person making the decision almost certainly takes the view if in doubt don't give the info and let the Ico make the decision... Yes I suspect some people don't follow through but it's very clear you can and very easy to do so.

Ok, that's fair enough. If you were cynical, it would be very easy to imagine the government deliberately sticking their oar in though with that letter they sent out.
 
Very interesting read, thanks for posting that. The one thing it sadly doesn't illuminate though is how British negotiators come to the conclusion that failing to deliver on their agreement strengthens their hand in these negotiations.

Tony Connelly's been writing great stuff on Brexit for a good while now. Whatever else about RTE, their website is great nowadays.
 
You couldn't be a bad as Grayling if you were intentionally trying to feck things up.
 
Back May’s deal, then hold people’s vote: plan to end Brexit deadlock
Theresa May could win parliament’s approval for her controversial Brexit deal in return for guaranteeing another referendum, under a new plan being drawn up by a cross-party group of MPs. The new vote would give the British people a simple choice: to confirm the decision or stay in the EU.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-deal-then-hold-peoples-vote-backbencher-plan

Interesting. Can't imagine it has a hope in hell's chance of getting government backing.
 
Main problem is that I don't see how either May or Corbyn back it. Which is admittedly quite a big problem.
 
I don't think Corbyn or May would ever go for it. Labour voting through May's deal and it squeezing through in a 2nd referendum could lose them a third of their seats at the next election. On the other side, if May lost a second referendum where one of the options was the deal she's been working on for 3 years, she and most of her cabinet would be on the slag heap with Cameron and Osbourne.

The one scenario I can see happening is May enticing ultra-Remain Labour MPs with a 2nd ref promise, getting her deal passed and then closing ranks, never speaking of the second referendum again and hiding behind the parliamentary arithmetic. The one thing you can basically guarantee is that when the going gets tough, Tory rebels will shit themselves and back the leadership. She'd look like a giant liar but Tory voters would love for it.
 
I don't think Corbyn or May would ever go for it. Labour voting through May's deal and it squeezing through in a 2nd referendum could lose them a third of their seats at the next election. On the other side, if May lost a second referendum where one of the options was the deal she's been working on for 3 years, she and most of her cabinet would be on the slag heap with Cameron and Osbourne.

The one scenario I can see happening is May enticing ultra-Remain Labour MPs with a 2nd ref promise, getting her deal passed and then closing ranks, never speaking of the second referendum again and hiding behind the parliamentary arithmetic. The one thing you can basically guarantee is that when the going gets tough, Tory rebels will shit themselves and back the leadership. She'd look like a giant liar but Tory voters would love for it.
Why would ultra-Remain MPs be tempted to literally vote to definitively leave the EU without a binding commitment to a second ref?
 
Why would ultra-Remain MPs be tempted to literally vote to definitively leave the EU without a binding commitment to a second ref?

I'm not sure what you mean by a 'binding commitment'. Most of these things are "gentlemen's agreements", I'm sure a few would be tempted to take the offer on faith, just look at the DUP, they've been propping May up for two years on the promise of £1bn that there's literally no guarantee they'll ever see and for which there is currently no legislation in sight. Granted they're mostly mad, but still.

If you mean a binding commitment in terms of a clause in a piece of legislation, in the British system where parliament is sovereign there's no such thing. Legislation is constantly overwritten by new legislation. Parliament has the power to make or un-make any law and no parliament can pass a law which cannot be changed or reversed by a future parliament. There's absolutely no legal difference between parliament choosing to overwrite a law that was passed 100 years ago or 100 days ago or 100 minutes ago. In theory, there's nothing to stop May passing a law with a clause promising a second ref and then doing another bit of horse-trading to create a majority to bin it again.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by a 'binding commitment'. Most of these things are "gentlemen's agreements", I'm sure a few would be tempted to take the offer on faith, just look at the DUP, they've been propping May up for two years on the promise of £1bn that there's literally no guarantee they'll ever see and for which there is currently no legislation in sight. Granted they're mostly mad, but still.

If you mean a binding commitment in terms of a clause in a piece of legislation, in the British system where parliament is sovereign there's no such thing. Legislation is constantly overwritten by new legislation. Parliament has the power to make or un-make any law and no parliament can pass a law which cannot be changed or reversed by a future parliament. There's absolutely no legal difference between parliament choosing to overwrite a law that was passed 100 years ago or 100 days ago or 100 minutes ago. In theory, there's nothing to stop May passing a law with a clause promising a second ref and then doing another bit of horse-trading to create a majority to bin it again.
But you'll notice your second paragraph there is a lot different to your initial premise of "closing ranks and never speaking of it again". You're now saying she'd have to, after it's all finally been voted through, rush through another amendment that removes the referendum part whilst preserving her deal, relying on ERG, DUP and Labour leaver votes to do so. This is fanciful.
 
I don't think Corbyn or May would ever go for it. Labour voting through May's deal and it squeezing through in a 2nd referendum could lose them a third of their seats at the next election. On the other side, if May lost a second referendum where one of the options was the deal she's been working on for 3 years, she and most of her cabinet would be on the slag heap with Cameron and Osbourne.

The one scenario I can see happening is May enticing ultra-Remain Labour MPs with a 2nd ref promise, getting her deal passed and then closing ranks, never speaking of the second referendum again and hiding behind the parliamentary arithmetic. The one thing you can basically guarantee is that when the going gets tough, Tory rebels will shit themselves and back the leadership. She'd look like a giant liar but Tory voters would love for it.

May is proposing it so you'd normally expect her to go for it (rejecting her own deal doesn't help my argument tbf). Corbyn wouldn't want to go for it but I think he'll have a hard time pushing against it. He's either cancelling brexit or throwing away the one opportunity the country has to avoid the mess. Both are terrible looks for his future GE chances which is the only thing he cares about.
 
Unsurprising, but infuriating. The fecking arrogance of these pricks thinking they're welcomed like loyalty in Spain.

They seem to have created a literal bubble for themselves. The arrogance thing has to be some past down trait from once having a empire, at least from the video there seem to be even a couple of rule Britannia sticker around the place. I get a similar vibe when seeing white Americans over here, can only image how bloody annoying the Ottomans were.

It was amazing to see the giant leaps of political ideology the last man was doing. He voted to leave the EU to I image give the UK backs it's "independence" yet as soon as he finds out that will have a negative effect on him he turns into a full blown Europeanist. And of course you can't teach a bigoted old dog new tricks "freedom of movement for us proper Europeans"

Not to go too off topic but I've really never understood why someone would move to another country to then spend most of their time in a wetherspoons. I was watching one of those Place In The Sun type shows that are on Channel 4 (Yes I'm unemployed at the moment)and there was this couple in their late 30's(So I don't think it's just a age thing)who wanted to buy a apartment in a similar ex pat resort in the Costa Del Sol.

They had been coming to this part of Spain for 6 years running and not once had they left the resort(It seemed they barely left the communal swimming pool area). In fact the first time they heard about dolphin spotting trips was when the producers of the show organised one for them and the boat company who offered this experience was within walking distance of the resort. It became embarrassing to point where I actually felt sorry for them, to think of all the things their missing out on because they would rather sunbathe and eat out at Pizza hunt is a rather depressing thought. How can anyone be that disinterested in what the world has to offer.

Still good news for Michael McIntyre career.
 
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Boomers are as thick as pig shit.

The couple with the dog - voted to leave, but they still want their own freedom of movement. I have no sympathy at all. In any case, they are just winter holiday-makers, not ex-pats - they haven't moved their lives there, like the old guy with all the health issues has. I don't think Spain will miss them too much, they all live as cheaply as possible when they're out there over the winter.

By the way, not all us Boomers are stupid, you know. :)
 
But you'll notice your second paragraph there is a lot different to your initial premise of "closing ranks and never speaking of it again". You're now saying she'd have to, after it's all finally been voted through, rush through another amendment that removes the referendum part whilst preserving her deal, relying on ERG, DUP and Labour leaver votes to do so. This is fanciful.

Yeah that's fair enough. I was more envisioning a situation more akin to the first paragraph to be honest. The second was just to point out that literally nothing is 'binding' in parliament. It's happened before that a majority has gotten a bill past first reading and a 'different' majority has gotten it through 2nd with an amendment which wouldn't have got the initial majority.

When I referred to "never speaking of it again" I was being tongue in cheek. Politicians say something and change their mind all the time, and their media training to deal with the inevitably scrutiny is basically "deflect the question and change the subject".