A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Random Task]

Note the addition of 'arguable' to the post.

For me, PSG is as strong as any team in Europe this season. I'm guessing you would claim otherwise. Opinions.

Of all the teams we have played and beaten since Ole took over the club (including top tier PL clubs such as Arsenal and Spurs) PSG were head and shoulders above them all. The way they dictated the tempo of the game and completely nullify our attack is something no team has been able to achieve against us.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

I just don't see the need for a rush to decide?

If we give a chance to ole we can see if it works or not.

Either Pochettino stays at spurs & we go for him the following season if ole fails. If not then he goes to Madrid & the only club he would come to England for would be United.

Just give ole a chance. We don't need to be this mindless club craving for instant successes.

Barcelonas best managers have been kluivert, Pep & Enrique. Madrid were great with Zidane. Chelsea won their only UCL under Di matte0. Simepne has made atl Madrid better than I ever remember.

These ex footballers managing their ex clubs is a legitimate method that can work - so let's just be patient and see if it does or not.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Note the addition of 'arguable' to the post.

For me, PSG is as strong as any team in Europe this season. I'm guessing you would claim otherwise. Opinions.

Of all the teams we have played and beaten since Ole took over the club (including top tier PL clubs such as Arsenal and Spurs) PSG were head and shoulders above them all. The way they dictated the tempo of the game and completely nullified our attack is something no team has been able to achieve against us.

PSG have no claim to being the best team in Europe. If anything they were fortunate to even play you because Napoli were the better side in both games in the group stage, and they got outplayed completely by Liverpool at Anfield. Their saving grace was that they didn't slip up in either of the games against Red Star. You're entitled to your opinion but I do feel you're overrating them somewhat because they outplayed you, when really if you look at their performances in Europe as a whole, they aren't the best side.

Tuchel won the tactical battle, that's what I'm saying, hence why they found it so easy to nullify you. I don't think they would be able to dictate the tempo or completely nullify a side like City or Liverpool, they've had troubles with teams who play quick passing football in the past, I just think United made it very easy for them to maintain a grip on the game, and Ole did little to change that. You can boil it all down to a quality gap but I just don't think that is the case.

If we played PSG and put in that performance at home against them, I'd be disgusted. Yes they're a better side than us and yes they have better players, but I'd still expect to hurt them and give them a competitive match, they're far from Barcelona in their prime. Liverpool scored 3 goals at home past that defence and were unfortunate not to get more, you mustered a single shot on target!

 

[ash_86]

I just don't see the need for a rush to decide?

If we give a chance to ole we can see if it works or not.

Either Pochettino stays at spurs & we go for him the following season if ole fails. If not then he goes to Madrid & the only club he would come to England for would be United.

Just give ole a chance. We don't need to be this mindless club craving for instant successes.

Barcelonas best managers have been kluivert, Pep & Enrique. Madrid were great with Zidane. Chelsea won their only UCL under Di matte0. Simepne has made atl Madrid better than I ever remember.

These ex footballers managing their ex clubs is a legitimate method that can work - so let's just be patient and see if it does or not.

You have a point. Most of the times it does not work out giving to an X player than it does but i see the passion in Ole's work. The only question is how good he's tactically and that can only be answered by giving him a proper chance with backing. I'm inclining very much to give him atleast 2 years and see what happens.

 

[Random Task]

I feel like PSG have gone up a level since United lost to them. They were outplayed in games against both Napoli and Liverpool away from home in the CL group stages and that was whilst at full strength. They're a very talented side who yes, were always favourites in this tie, but to lose without even a whimper is very poor from United. They didn't thrash you but they stopped you from creating a single chance and completely dominated the match, by the end 2-0 was kind to United.

You were toothless before the injuries, they didn't help but I don't think it's fair to say they changed the game. PSG managed Ole's gameplan (counter attacks) and you seemingly had no backup to that, no way to open up a disciplined defence who weren't giving you space, and when you did the final ball was very poor.

It's not an embarrassing loss or anything, PSG are clearly a very good side. The manner of the defeat was very, very poor though and I think it's right that a manager should be criticised when his team performs like that in a big game at home in Europe, no? Pochettino got shit for losing by 1 goal over two legs to a Juventus side who the season before reached a CL final. You managed 1 shot on target, regardless of the 'quality gap' between the two sides that tells me that first and foremost Tuchel won the tactical battle and was able to totally nullify your gameplan.

I concede to not watching either of PSG's games against Napoli so I won't comment on them, but I witnessed with my own two eyes Liverpool get utterly dominated in the away tie in Paris (the scoreline does not reflect the game whatsoever) whilst the game at Anfield was a more open-ended affair which Liverpool scraped a last-ditch win.

As for our game against PSG, yes, Ole got schooled by a technically superior (despite their injuries) and infinitely more experienced European outfit. The only consolation I took from the game was that Ole would have learned from the experience and will be better prepared for the next encounter.

 

[Random Task]

PSG have no claim to being the best team in Europe. If anything they were fortunate to even play you because Napoli were the better side in both games in the group stage, and they got outplayed completely by Liverpool at Anfield. Their saving grace was that they didn't slip up in either of the games against Red Star. You're entitled to your opinion but I do feel you're overrating them somewhat because they outplayed you, when really if you look at their performances in Europe as a whole, they aren't the best side.

Tuchel won the tactical battle, that's what I'm saying, hence why they found it so easy to nullify you. I don't think they would be able to dictate the tempo or completely nullify a side like City or Liverpool, they've had troubles with teams who play quick passing football in the past, I just think United made it very easy for them to maintain a grip on the game, and Ole did little to change that. You can boil it all down to a quality gap but I just don't think that is the case.

If we played PSG and put in that performance at home against them, I'd be disgusted. Yes they're a better side than us and yes they have better players, but I'd still expect to hurt them and give them a competitive match, they're far from Barcelona in their prime. Liverpool scored 3 goals at home past that defence and were unfortunate not to get more, you mustered a single shot on target!

I'm going to remember you said that

 

[Adam-Utd]

I feel like PSG have gone up a level since United lost to them. They were outplayed in games against both Napoli and Liverpool away from home in the CL group stages and that was whilst at full strength. They're a very talented side who yes, were always favourites in this tie, but to lose without even a whimper is very poor from United. They didn't thrash you but they stopped you from creating a single chance and completely dominated the match, by the end 2-0 was kind to United.

You were toothless before the injuries, they didn't help but I don't think it's fair to say they changed the game. PSG managed Ole's gameplan (counter attacks) and you seemingly had no backup to that, no way to open up a disciplined defence who weren't giving you space, and when you did the final ball was very poor.

It's not an embarrassing loss or anything, PSG are clearly a very good side. The manner of the defeat was very, very poor though and I think it's right that a manager should be criticised when his team performs like that in a big game at home in Europe, no? Pochettino got shit for losing by 1 goal over two legs to a Juventus side who the season before reached a CL final. You managed 1 shot on target, regardless of the 'quality gap' between the two sides that tells me that first and foremost Tuchel won the tactical battle and was able to totally nullify your gameplan.

They stopped Pogba, the man who's driven us forward in pretty much all the games under Solskjaer so far.

Yes we are massively dependant on him, when he doesn't play, neither do United. That isn't Solskjaers fault though, he can only work with the tools we've got.

From what we've seen in the last 2 months though things are much better, that alone earns him a poor match. I don't think any realistic United fan expected us to get through this tie when it was made, but maybe some got carried away.

PSG were pretty poor also in the first half, so who knows if we would have stepped up also.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

You have a point. Most of the times it does not work out giving to an X player than it does but i see the passion in Ole's work. The only question is how good he's tactically and that can only be answered by giving him a proper chance with backing. I'm inclining very much to give him atleast 2 years and see what happens.

I'm a fan of pochettin0 & especially his spurs team that was playing 353 a year or 3 ago was my favourite to watch.

If ole was struggling here or if we had someone else - I'd be on it to go all out for Maurico.

But the signs are that Ole is not completely clueless & players have stepped up a gear under him. I would not even think 2 years is necessary. This time next year we would be able to see if ole is a good enough manager for us for the long term. Then it's understable if we look at other options if it's not working.

I am enjoying watching United atm & even if success is not instant under him - we should be patient in my opinion.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I concede to not watching either of PSG's games against Napoli so I won't comment on them, but I witnessed with my own two eyes Liverpool get utterly dominated in the away tie in Paris (the scoreline does not reflect the game whatsoever) whilst the game at Anfield was a more open-ended affair which Liverpool scraped a last-ditch win.

As for our game against PSG, yes, Ole got schooled by a technically superior (despite their injuries) and infinitely more experienced European outfit. The only consolation I took from the game was that Ole would have learned from the experience and will be better prepared for the next encounter.

PSG dominated the away tie against Liverpool, no doubt about it. I don't think if Ole had gone to Paris and lost 2-1 to PSG anybody would be criticising him though.

To describe the game at Anfield as 'open ended' is being very harsh on Liverpool. They created far more chances and the late winner was entirely deserved, PSG were clinical but little else. Liverpool didn't scrape that win, they were the much better side and deserved the 3 points.

I think it's just the manner of the defeat which reflects badly on Ole. PSG have serious quality and you can expect that to hurt you, but other decent teams have taken the game to them (especially at home) and been able to outplay them and create plenty of chances.

 

[TMDaines]

Utterly dominated the Bundesliga leaders.

Which would be really meaningful if Bayern were top, but otherwise isn’t. Dortmund are leading in Germany by chance more than quality of performances. It was a great win for Spurs, as any 3-0 win is at home, but Dortmund aren't particularly great. They've been very fortunate so far, which has lead to massively inflated perception of their quality.

https://understat.com/league/Bundesliga/2018

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Question for United fans:

If we had drawn PSG instead, and like you faced them with no Neymar and no Cavani, and put in the same performance at home (1 shot on target, PSG oleing it towards the end) would you honestly not be criticising Pochettino for being tactically outdone?

Say PSG marked Eriksen out of the game and we struggled, would people really not be accusing Pochettino of being one dimensional and for failing to adapt tactically?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Which would be really meaningful if Bayern were top, but otherwise isn’t. Dortmund are leading in Germany by chance more than quality of performances. It was a great win for Spurs, as any 3-0 win is at home, but Dortmund aren't particularly great. They've been very fortunate so far, which has lead to massively inflated perception of their quality.

https://understat.com/league/Bundesliga/2018

The only statistics that are worth a damn is that they're top of the league and clear by five points.

 

[TMDaines]

The only statistics that are worth a damn is that they're top of the league and clear by five points.

For winning a trophy? Sure. But that's absurd for evaluating the strength of opposition. You don't scout based on league position.

 

[Random Task]

PSG dominated the away tie against Liverpool, no doubt about it. I don't think if Ole had gone to Paris and lost 2-1 to PSG anybody would be criticising him though.

To describe the game at Anfield as 'open ended' is being very harsh on Liverpool. They created far more chances and the late winner was entirely deserved, PSG were clinical but little else. Liverpool didn't scrape that win, they were the much better side and deserved the 3 points.

I think it's just the manner of the defeat which reflects badly on Ole. PSG have serious quality and you can expect that to hurt you, but other decent teams have taken the game to them (especially at home) and been able to outplay them and create plenty of chances.

PSG missed a few chances of their own on the counterattack. In the second half Liverpool was the better team, admittedly, but in no way shape or form did they dominate the encounter - at least not to the extent that PSG did in Paris.

Given Ole's willingness to learn from his mistakes and the fact that United are a far more dangerous animal away from home where opposing teams are more intent on attacking us and leaving space in behind, I expect to see an improved performance from the team and, who knows, maybe even a victory.

 

[Random Task]

Question for United fans:

If we had drawn PSG instead, and like you faced them with no Neymar and no Cavani, and put in the same performance at home (1 shot on target, PSG oleing it towards the end) would you honestly not be criticising Pochettino for being tactically outdone?

Say PSG marked Eriksen out of the game and we struggled, would people really not be accusing Pochettino of being one dimensional and for failing to adapt tactically?

I stated as much in a previous post.

Ole got schooled by a technically superior (despite their injuries) and infinitely more experienced European outfit

 

[ash_86]

I'm a fan of pochettin0 & especially his spurs team that was playing 353 a year or 3 ago was my favourite to watch.

If ole was struggling here or if we had someone else - I'd be on it to go all out for Maurico.

But the signs are that Ole is not completely clueless & players have stepped up a gear under him. I would not even think 2 years is necessary. This time next year we would be able to see if ole is a good enough manager for us for the long term. Then it's understable if we look at other options if it's not working.

I am enjoying watching United atm & even if success is not instant under him - we should be patient in my opinion.

I'm completely in the same viewpoint as yours. Getting a good buzz out of the team right now. How many European games has Potch lost since he took over. Happens to every coach out there. We just have to be patient and success will follow.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

For winning a trophy? Sure. But that's absurd for evaluating the strength of opposition. You don't scout based on league position.

They have superior goal difference and more points than anybody else in the league .. how are they getting lucky on such a consistent basis?

I keep seeing this xG stat fecking everywhere, why is this now the gold standard for who 'deserved' to win a game, or 'deserves' to be winning a title?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

PSG missed a few chances of their own on the counterattack. In the second half Liverpool was the better team, admittedly, but in no way shape or form did they dominate the encounter - at least not to the extent that PSG did in Paris.

Given Ole's willingness to learn from his mistakes and the fact that United are a far more dangerous animal away from home where opposing teams are more intent on attacking us and leaving space in behind, I expect to see an improved performance from the team and, who knows, maybe even a victory.

I would be surprised if Tuchel, having put out an excellent tactical gameplan in the first leg, went in to the second leg and offered you lots of space. He correctly identified that you carry a major threat on the break and nullified that, I expect a similar gameplan in the second leg, it's up to Ole to switch it up.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Question for United fans:

If we had drawn PSG instead, and like you faced them with no Neymar and no Cavani, and put in the same performance at home (1 shot on target, PSG oleing it towards the end) would you honestly not be criticising Pochettino for being tactically outdone?

Say PSG marked Eriksen out of the game and we struggled, would people really not be accusing Pochettino of being one dimensional and for failing to adapt tactically?

I stated as much in a previous post.

Also he was pretty limited with the bench, what could have been done? Maybe Lukaku uptop and push rashford out wide instead of mata? Lukaku has hardly been ripping up trees lately either, Ole clearly didn’t fancy him on there. Maybe bring Fred on to get more of a grip on midfield? Againfred hasn’t been lighting any fires so no reason for ole to drop in at the deep end against PSG.

Basically the 2 wingers Ole replaced the 2 injuries with did not cut the mustard and are not quick enough. Maybe Ole could or should have worked around that bit at least it highlighted how short we are in areas.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

I'm completely in the same viewpoint as yours. Getting a good buzz out of the team right now. How many European games has Potch lost since he took over. Happens to every coach out there. We just have to be patient and success will follow.

With regards to PSG. The game was 50-50 the first half but we lost two main players in attack in the second half. Considering PSG's attack was also injured what that allowed was a game of midfield vs midfield & their midfield was better than ours. They had creators whilst we didnt. Draxelr, verrati and Di maria were the players of that game and Mbappe doing the finishing.

The only tactical mistake Ole did was not putting on Lukaku earlier - as again our midfield was no existent and the only chances we were creating were crosses in to the box.

The game tactics changed heavily in that half and ole reacted too late. I'm sure this will change; and even if it doesnt - i doubt such an injured result to our players in one half will happen all that frequently.

 

[ash_86]

Question for United fans:

If we had drawn PSG instead, and like you faced them with no Neymar and no Cavani, and put in the same performance at home (1 shot on target, PSG oleing it towards the end) would you honestly not be criticising Pochettino for being tactically outdone?

Say PSG marked Eriksen out of the game and we struggled, would people really not be accusing Pochettino of being one dimensional and for failing to adapt tactically?

Yes. If this has happened to us in Ole's 3'rd season, we'd be worried. The guy has been in town for like two months. He's here to get us top 4 and he has already found out his best team in this short time, something which our previous manager couldn't do in 3 years. Expecting Ole to have a Plan B, Plan C is little bit OTT at this point.

 

[ash_86]

With regards to PSG. The game was 50-50 the first half but we lost two main players in attack in the second half. Considering PSG's attack was also injured what that allowed was a game of midfield vs midfield & their midfield was better than ours. They had creators whilst we didnt. Draxelr, verrati and Di maria were the players of that game and Mbappe doing the finishing.

The only tactical mistake Ole did was not putting on Lukaku earlier - as again our midfield was no existent and the only chances we were creating were crosses in to the box.

The game tactics changed heavily in that half and ole reacted too late. I'm sure this will change; and even if it doesnt - i doubt such an injured result to our players in one half will happen all that frequently.

Yeah, we went into the game with a pretty positive vibe and that by itself is credit to Ole and what he's done in two months. The results are positive however the way you look at it. So many people underestimated PSG and the un denying quality they have. As the manager told, it'll be a lesson for everyone involved. Onwards and upwards !!

 

[RedDevil@84]

Question for United fans:

If we had drawn PSG instead, and like you faced them with no Neymar and no Cavani, and put in the same performance at home (1 shot on target, PSG oleing it towards the end) would you honestly not be criticising Pochettino for being tactically outdone?

Say PSG marked Eriksen out of the game and we struggled, would people really not be accusing Pochettino of being one dimensional and for failing to adapt tactically?

Agree. Ole made some errors.
PSG and Tuchel's tactics negated everything Ole had under his sleeve.

Ole is getting something of a free pass because

- We were seriously crap and we are in top 4
- He has been around for only 2 months
- Our team B are known to be not good (or Ole has not found a way to get best out of them in the 2 months) and when two main attackers got injured, it was expected we would be several levels down already.

Ole's free pass wouldn't last forever though.

 

[TMDaines]

They have superior goal difference and more points than anybody else in the league .. how are they getting lucky on such a consistent basis?

I keep seeing this xG stat fecking everywhere, why is this now the gold standard for who 'deserved' to win a game, or 'deserves' to be winning a title?

Because it is better than anything else we have as a proxy for performance. Football is a high variance sport. That's not really disputed, is it? Luck, fortune, variance, or whatever you want to call it, plays a far bigger factor in deciding football results than most other sports. It's closer to baseball or golf, than it is basketball or rugby union. Scoring is incredibly difficult in football and happens infrequently, yet can be done with complete chance or an unforced error of the opposition. Most people would agree a knockout cup can't show the best team conclusively, but even a 38-game league is insufficient.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Question for United fans:

If we had drawn PSG instead, and like you faced them with no Neymar and no Cavani, and put in the same performance at home (1 shot on target, PSG oleing it towards the end) would you honestly not be criticising Pochettino for being tactically outdone?

Say PSG marked Eriksen out of the game and we struggled, would people really not be accusing Pochettino of being one dimensional and for failing to adapt tactically?

Alot of excuses came out the moment that Kane was injured for Spurs against plenty teams. So can we use Martial's & Lingard's injury as one?

I think so.

The first half was a balance and United were holding back PSG as much as they were holding our attack. United at that point didn't look like the club we have seen under ole thus far where we go all out attack - we clearly had a bit more of a restrictive game plan and an attacking game plan when the oppurtunites only arise. Two players got injured and we had to change all our tactics within 15 miniutes with 2 players off the bench.

It was clear that the tactics got lost after 2 injuries because we went from a team that was playing football and passing the ball on the floor to a team that had to later utilise players like young providing crosses being our main and only attacking threat.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Because it is better than anything else we have as a proxy for performance. Football is a high variance sport. That's not really disputed, is it? Luck, fortune, variance, or whatever you want to call it, plays a far bigger factor in deciding football results than most other sports. It's closer to baseball or golf, than it is basketball or rugby union. Scoring is incredibly difficult in football and happens infrequently, yet can be done with complete chance or an unforced error of the opposition. Most people would agree a knockout cup can't show the best team conclusively, but even a 38-game league is insufficient.

Does it take in to account the individual quality of players? In a game between us and Leicester, the latter might have more xG but hey .. we have Son up front and they have Demarai Gray.

There's no foolproof way to judge a teams quality, it's sport. Regardless of whether they 'deserve' to be top they are there, and you don't get there unless you're a quality side. Clearly they've been able to take advantage of key moments in games better than the sides who are expected to do better have done.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Alot of excuses came out the moment that Kane was injured for Spurs against plenty teams. So can we use Martial's & Lingard's injury as one?

I think so.

The first half was a balance and United were holding back PSG as much as they were holding our attack. United at that point didn't look like the club we have seen under ole thus far where we go all out attack - we clearly had a bit more of a restrictive game plan and an attacking game plan when the oppurtunites only arise. Two players got injured and we had to change all our tactics within 15 miniutes with 2 players off the bench.

It was clear that the tactics got lost after 2 injuries because we went from a team that was playing football and passing the ball on the floor to a team that had to later utilise players like young providing crosses being our main and only attacking threat.

I don't see this massive shift between the first/second half. Lingard and Martial were doing almost nothing in that first half aside from a few terrible passes, they were being completely nullified by PSG who were happy to sit and wait for their own opportunities on the counter. I said in the first half I could see a goal coming from a counter for PSG, Mbappe and Di Maria were both getting in to good positions.

Did the tactics get lost? I didn't see much of a shift in tactics from the first to the second half, it was just that you carried even less of a threat. PSG scored from a set piece and then hit you on the counter, would this have changed with Lingard/Martial on the pitch? Maybe, but I don't see any sign of this from the first half where both players were barely able to impact the game.

The excuses came out when we lost Kane, Alli, Son and Lucas all at once and were forced to play the likes of Nkoudou and Llorente. Ole brought on Alexis Sanchez and Juan Mata from the bench, it's not really the same is it? We've coped without Kane and Alli, of course it's impacted us but others have stepped up in their absence.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Wow mate, two ties in four years

If Man Utd lose to Chelsea in the FA cup it will be a disaster whereas Spurs check out of the FA cup every season as part of their club aims, it's easy to be a success at Spurs because all the cup losses etc. Are all brushed under the carpet there

On the contrary, it's very difficult to be a success at Spurs because most of our spare money for several years past has had to be invested in our new stadium complex (and new training centre) and not in signing new players or paying massive wages. Yet despite all this we've become an established top 4 club.

In contrast, United have had a net-spend on players - not even counting wages - running into the hundreds of millions since Fergie retired: this is a luxury called easy-street, yet your lack of competitiveness in the league is all brushed under the carpet with the excuse of managerial merry-go-rounds.

 

[TMDaines]

Does it take in to account the individual quality of players? In a game between us and Leicester, the latter might have more xG but hey .. we have Son up front and they have Demarai Gray.

There's no foolproof way to judge a teams quality, it's sport. Regardless of whether they 'deserve' to be top they are there, and you don't get there unless you're a quality side. Clearly they've been able to take advantage of key moments in games better than the sides who are expected to do better have done.

The Bundesliga is 21 games in. Beating the German league leaders has a nice ring to it, but it ain't that meaningful in isolation. I would have laughed if people were rubbing themselves silly at beating the Spanish league leaders when Alaves were top a couple of months ago. It was a great win for Spurs last night and a good performance, but some are acting as if they beat a European giant at home 3-0. Dortmund and Porto were prime draws for coming second in your CL group. You'd take sides of their quality every time.

That said, United got a prime draw last year and were appalling.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

The Bundesliga is 21 games in. Beating the German league leaders has a nice ring to it, but it ain't that meaningful in isolation. I would have laughed if people were rubbing themselves silly at beating the Spanish league leaders when Alaves were top a couple of months ago. It was a great win for Spurs last night and a good performance, but some are acting as if they beat a European giant at home 3-0. Dortmund and Porto were prime draws for coming second in your CL group. You'd take sides of their quality every time.

That said, United got a prime draw last year and were appalling.

A prime draw? They beat Atletico 4-0 in their group and they aren't comparable to Alaves whatsoever FFS, they've been top for most of the season and relatively clear. Even if they don't win the league the lowest they're likely to finish is second, they're clearly a very good side who nobody would have been buzzing to come up against.

We didn't beat a European giant, but we did smash a side leading a top league 3-0 in a very convincing performance. People had it as a 50/50 tie before the game and plenty even had it advantage Dortmund, so I don't get why you're surprised people are delighted at how convincing we were.

 

[GlastonSpur]

A prime draw? They beat Atletico 4-0 in their group and they aren't comparable to Alaves whatsoever FFS, they've been top for most of the season and relatively clear. Even if they don't win the league the lowest they're likely to finish is second, they're clearly a very good side who nobody would have been buzzing to come up against.

We didn't beat a European giant, but we did smash a side leading a top league 3-0 in a very convincing performance. People had it as a 50/50 tie before the game and plenty even had it advantage Dortmund, so I don't get why you're surprised people are delighted at how convincing we were.

Exactly so. But now, post-match, the revisionists are quick to re-shuffle their deck.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I am not sure why people are in denial, but beating Dortmund so convincingly after having key players missing and also having a crap first half is a big deal. Poch has done a terrific job yesterday, in stark contrast to the disappointing performances in the cup games few weeks back.
At least I thought Dortmund had a 50/50 chance of taking something. And to stop them from even scoring a consolation goal is a big achievement.

Well done Spurs and Poch.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Convincing once you’d got the goals yes, football is such fine margins though. You should have had sissoko sent off in the first half, same as PSG we’re lucky to still have 11 at half time.
You go in with 10 men at half time after such a shit first half and it’s a different game and the whole after game talk of tactics would be different again.
Football changes so much during the 90 you can’t possibly say you were so convincing with a straight face.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Convincing once you’d got the goals yes, football is such fine margins though. You should have had sissoko sent off in the first half, same as PSG we’re lucky to still have 11 at half time.
You go in with 10 men at half time after such a shit first half and it’s a different game and the whole after game talk of tactics would be different again.
Football changes so much during the 90 you can’t possibly say you were so convincing with a straight face.

No we shouldn't.

 

[Zlatan 7]

No we shouldn't.

My mistake, I thought he purposely clipped the ankles of sancho just outside the box when on a yellow already and the ref let it go.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

My mistake, I thought he purposely clipped the ankles of sancho just outside the box when on a yellow already and the ref let it go.

It was a free kick but he wasn't on a yellow already.

 

[Amadaeus]

First point. That is literally what I said so not sure why you are laughing, you do not know what a gem is I take it?

In your initial post, you stated that these players weren’t £10m that Pochettino developed into £100m player. But at the time they were, so I am confused about what point you are try to make. It is like United buying Dalot and turning him into a £100 player. Dalot is not regarded highly and neither were most of those players at the time as well.

Second point. Not sure if bringing up inflation just brings your point into a corner or not. Kane and Eriksen has a current value of 230m according to transfermarkt. No matter how much they originally paid for those players, they are still worth that amount because they are that good. Or do you really think Pochettino would come to Man Utd, turn Fred a supposedly "50m player" into a 150m player. It just doesn't work like that man.

They are worth that amount know because of their development under Pochettino. The point I was emphasizing was that at the time Pogba, De Gea and Martial went for record fee at the time and even though as you stated, “it may have come to £150m then,” but at this moment, that £150m would look much more extravagant now. Ali, Kane, Dembele, Eriksen, Son cost peanuts compared to these players at the time.

Shaw 60m, Herrera 100, Dalot 75. And on top of expecting that, you think having additional worldclass players such as Pogba and Martial will give Poch the title by default? So all United would need to do is hire him and we would definitely win, because we spent more money than Spurs. Obviously not, I hope you agree. It is about the quality of players, if you get 5 gems for 10m in and they all work out it doesn't matter that someone else spent 250m on 3 players who doesn't deliver. You have the better players in that scenario. It is against the odds sure, but that has been the good thing for Spurs, combined with a manager that I think like the challenge of being the underdog. It is not even like he has bad players. Everyone talks about De Gea saving us, no top 4 without him etc. What about Lloris? He is a great goalie man, very important to have that. Chelsea doesn't have that. Arsenal doesn't have that.

As I stated before, spending big improve your squad and I definitely believe Pogba and Martial in Spurs team would definitely give them a better chance not only with the league but with domestic and European competition as they are doing so well without these depth in resources and talent. De Gea is a much better keeper than Lloris. There is no debate in that, Lloris dreams of performance De Gea has shown at United where he has consistently singledly won us a point.

 

[JoseandMkhiarespecial]

I don't want him at all

40 million to hire him, and he's a specialist in failure in the FA cup

Let's be real, because he manages a club with no history (Spurs) he gets a free pass to lose the cups every season

If ANY Man Utd manager had all of his players that are good:
Vertonghen, Lloris, Alderweireld, Rose, Walker, Dembele, Eriksen, Kane, Alli, Son, Lucas

They'd have been expected to win things by now. And not to lose a title race to Leicester.

His record looks like a success because he has a small club in top 4 but at Man Utd level there's no success that I can see

 

[Fridge chutney]

I'd prefer Ole but we wouldn't go wrong with Poch.

 

[JoseandMkhiarespecial]

In your initial post, you stated that these players weren’t £10m that Pochettino developed into £100m player. But at the time they were, so I am confused about what point you are try to make. It is like United buying Dalot and turning him into a £100 player. Dalot is not regarded highly and neither were most of those players at the time as well.




They are worth that amount know because of their development under Pochettino. The point I was emphasizing was that at the time Pogba, De Gea and Martial went for record fee at the time and even though as you stated, “it may have come to £150m then,” but at this moment, that £150m would look much more extravagant now. Ali, Kane, Dembele, Eriksen, Son cost peanuts compared to these players at the time.



As I stated before, spending big improve your squad and I definitely believe Pogba and Martial in Spurs team would definitely give them a better chance not only with the league but with domestic and European competition as they are doing so well without these depth in resources and talent. De Gea is a much better keeper than Lloris. There is no debate in that, Lloris dreams of performance De Gea has shown at United where he has consistently singledly won us a point.

Take a dose of reality

I watched clips of Eriksen before he even moved to Spurs before Poch was there

He was always an amazing player

Attackers cost double the value they used to since the Neymar fee, and you're on here trolling saying that Poch is the reason Kane and Eriksen cost so much