Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK

No, you made your decision to leave.

You’ve affiliated with those known to want to harm us.

You can’t come back when it suits you. Enjoy.
 
Carolina Red said:
Right
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Sorry man, I don't even mean to be rude.

Basically all I'm saying is she's young, she's a dick head, she comes from a very complex cultural background (one which I share) so I can imagine the many many hurdles a girl of her profile needs to get through to make it in our current times. If you add the danger and reaches of IS tentacles in this day and age, she's one on the fringes who they specifically target.

Like I said in my first post here, forgiveness and compassion is the cradle to the spirit. And yeah I actually made that up as I typed it.
 
Her citizenship should’ve been revoked already. She turned her back on her country to join a terrorost state at war with the UK. Goodbye, and feck you.
 
So for all those who say don't take her back, where do you suggest she go? Easy to say anywhere but Britian... but you're asking some other society to handle a British born terrorist. It's not like she's harmless outside of the UK :wenger:
 
simonhch said:
Her citizenship should’ve been revoked already. She turned her back on her country to join a terrorost state at war with the UK. Goodbye, and feck you.
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At the very least that would take an Act of Parliament. The UK would also need to leave the United Nations, not that we don't mind leaving clubs.
 
Let her back on the condition she's placed somewhere horrible like Liverpool.
 
If she can make her way to an embassy she should be protected and helped back to the UK when it is viable to do so.

She should face whatever charges she is due to face and there should be safeguarding measures put in place for the child.
 
Camy89 said:
No, you made your decision to leave.

You’ve affiliated with those known to want to harm us.

You can’t come back when it suits you. Enjoy.
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Yeah I'd agree with this. I'm not English so maybe it isn't my place to speak on this situation, but as far as I'm concerned she's made her bed so she can lie in it.
 
Dante said:
There are people who like the idea of an Islamic Caliphate in the same way there are people who like the idea of Western Democracy.
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There are people on this forum who like the idea of an Islamic Caliphate. They didn’t support this particular caliphate, however, because they understood pretty early on what it was all about and rejected it. These girls will have understood it as well, and accepted it on that basis.

Anyone who chose to travel over there after June 2014 has zero excuse and should be considered to have forfeited their citizenship, since they were responding to a call from Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to leave the lands of unbelief and throw their lot in with the caliphate, the only legitimate entity in earth to which God had promised victory. That’s how these people viewed it. They consciously rejected their home countries to join an organization/terrorist group/state that had declared war on the rest of the world.

There may be some cases with people who travelled over before June 2014 who never expected things to go so far and found themselves in a situation they never intended to get into. Maybe. But after June 2014 that was not possible.

A little reminder of the type of evil these girls consciously chose to give up their lives for to participate in (from August 2014, almost six months before the girls left for Syria):



To judge by the various reports of life in Raqqa under ISIS, it’s extremely likely that Shamima or one of her friends shared a home with a Yazidi slave/concubine at some stage.
 
Dante said:
Where has she said that? Have you made it up to justify your own prejudice?
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It's right there in the BBC article. Perhaps, you know, read it before going all accusatory about prejudice?

"It was from a captured fighter seized on the battlefield, an enemy of Islam.
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oates said:
At the very least that would take an Act of Parliament. The UK would also need to leave the United Nations, not that we don't mind leaving clubs.
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The UK can revoke her citizenship if she’s a dual-national.

International law only forbids revoking a person’s only citizenship, thus making them stateless.
 
Carolina Red said:
The UK can revoke her citizenship if she’s a dual-national.

International law only forbids revoking a person’s only citizenship, thus making them stateless.
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I didn't know she had dual nationality. Which other country does she hold a passport for?
 
oates said:
I didn't know she had dual nationality. Which other country does she hold a passport for?
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I don’t think she does. However there are reports that she qualifies for Bangladeshi citizenship. Not sure if that makes a difference.
 
2cents said:
I don’t think she does. However there are reports that she qualifies for Bangladeshi citizenship. Not sure if that makes a difference.
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Seems it isn't definite. I qualify for citizenship of another EU country but I'm not one.
 
oates said:
Seems it isn't definite. I qualify for citizenship of another EU country but I'm not one.
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In any case I don’t think it would be right to try and lay her on the Bangladeshis. Her views were formed and choices taken in Britain, not Bangladesh.
 
2cents said:
In any case I don’t think it would be right to try and lay her on the Bangladeshis. Her views were formed and choices taken in Britain, not Bangladesh.
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She was 15 when she formed those choices to ideologically support IS. Those asking why be compassionate? What if it was your daughter? Your grand-child? Would you hope she/they would get a second chance - in the case of the baby, a chance? An opportunity anyway for them both to grow up and for one to change their views?
 
oates said:
She was 15 when she formed those choices to ideologically support IS. Those asking why be compassionate? What if it was your daughter? Your grand-child? Would you hope she/they would get a second chance - in the case of the baby, a chance? An opportunity anyway for them both to grow up and for one to change their views?
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The chance for her to reform must be balanced against the strong possibility that she’ll use her time back home to radicalize others (including her child) or even plot violence. If you have a reliable means of determining which path is more likely for her then I’m all ears. In the meantime the focus of our compassion should be the victims of ISIS.
 
2cents said:
The chance for her to reform must be balanced against the strong possibility that she’ll use her time back home to radicalize others (including her child) or even plot violence. If you have a reliable means of determining which path is more likely for her then I’m all ears. In the meantime the focus of our compassion should be the victims of ISIS.
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Others have returned to ordinary everyday life. Personally I'd have thought that was risky, they should undergo some rehabilitation, perhaps some tests to determine their loyalties.

Men from Britain did join the Nazi's, even fought for the Waffen SS, the most famous John Amery was tried and hung when found guilty of Treason after the war. At least he got a trial I guess.
 
oates said:
She was 15 when she formed those choices to ideologically support IS. Those asking why be compassionate? What if it was your daughter? Your grand-child? Would you hope she/they would get a second chance - in the case of the baby, a chance? An opportunity anyway for them both to grow up and for one to change their views?
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I was 12 when I watched what terrorism was about on live TV. It was pretty clear that it isn’t the way to live.

If it were my daughter, I’d leave her to the consequences of her decisions. 15 is well old enough to know that a group committing acts of terror and genocide isn’t who you should run away from home to marry in to.
 
She made her bed. Hopefully our special forces can find her before she gets chance to return and put her in the ditch she belongs in.
 
Carolina Red said:
I was 12 when I watched what terrorism was about on live TV. It was pretty clear that it isn’t the way to live.

If it were my daughter, I’d leave her to the consequences of her decisions. 15 is well old enough to know that a group committing acts of terror and genocide isn’t who you should run away from home to marry in to.
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Some people take the view that they still love their children no matter what they've done. Even though I'm not a parent I can appreciate that her family want to try and help her and their prospective grand-child.
 
oates said:
Some people take the view that they still love their children no matter what they've done. Even though I'm not a parent I can appreciate that her family want to try and help her and their prospective grand-child.
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Leaving a person to the consequences of their decisions doesn’t mean you don’t love them.
 
oates said:
Others have returned to ordinary everyday life. Personally I'd have thought that was risky, they should undergo some rehabilitation, perhaps some tests to determine their loyalties.

Men from Britain did join the Nazi's, even fought for the Waffen SS, the most famous John Amery was tried and hung when found guilty of Treason after the war. At least he got a trial I guess.
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It is tricky though this case isn't it?

I mean her loyalties don't seem to be in question, she has no regrets about joining ISIS other than it failed, and if they beheaded you then you had it coming.

I don't suppose she is a rocket scientist because the US might take her if she was.
 
Carolina Red said:
Yeah, I do say so. The kind of thinking that “love” means bailing your child out of all consequences of their actions is part of the problem.
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This family doesn't.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
It is tricky though this case isn't it?

I mean her loyalties don't seem to be in question, she has no regrets about joining ISIS other than it failed, and if they beheaded you then you had it coming.

I don't suppose she is a rocket scientist because the US might take her if she was.
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I don't know what she thinks. People find it hard to admit their mistakes but maybe she can't be redeemed. We don't know.
 
oates said:
Others have returned to ordinary everyday life. Personally I'd have thought that was risky, they should undergo some rehabilitation, perhaps some tests to determine their loyalties.
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The problem is that we’re in uncharted territory here. There is no data, there are no studies to help guide us since the entire situation is unprecedented. Having said that I really doubt the British state has the capability to successfully rehabilitate these people, or at least reliably determine that they had.

oates said:
Some people take the view that they still love their children no matter what they've done. Even though I'm not a parent I can appreciate that her family want to try and help her and their prospective grand-child.
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Of course parents love and will defend their kids, nobody would expect otherwise. I’m not sure why that should make any difference here though. Ted Bundy’s mother defended him to the bitter end, so what?

And in this case there’s another element to consider - the father of one of Shamima’s friends, who has been a visible media presence throughout this story, previously attended al-Muhajirun rallies. So it is not unlikely that he played a role in his own daughter’s radicalization.
 
2cents said:
The problem is that we’re in uncharted territory here. There is no data, there are no studies to help guide us since the entire situation is unprecedented. Having said that I really doubt the British state has the capability to successfully rehabilitate these people, or at least reliably determine that they had.
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I don't know of any rehabilitation but the UK spent 10 years trying to with Jon Venables and Robert Thompson and the verdicts not in but looking poor for Venables.

Does anybody know if Begum actually fought during her time with IS or support the regime?
 
Carolina Red said:
Leaving a person to the consequences of their decisions doesn’t mean you don’t love them.
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How much do you really love someone if you remain indifferent/inactive in the face of their certain death?
 
Abizzz said:
How much do you really love someone if you remain indifferent/inactive in the face of their certain death?
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Leaving someone to the consequences of their decisions doesn’t mean you are indifferent.

If I went out and flat out committed murder, my father would be devastated. He would also leave me to the consequences of that decision.

It really isn’t a difficult concept.
 
oates said:
Does anybody know if Begum actually fought during her time with IS or support the regime?
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Depends what you mean by ‘support’. She clearly supported ISIS enough to go over there. I would argue that just by responding to al-Baghdadi’s call she gave ISIS a massive propaganda coup and helped lend credence to their claim on the loyalties of the world’s Muslims. She’d have been required to give al-Baghdadi a pledge of allegiance on arrival. She’d have been a direct source of support for her fighter husband.
 
2cents said:
Depends what you mean by ‘support’. She clearly supported ISIS enough to go over there. I would argue that just by responding to al-Baghdadi’s call she gave ISIS a massive propaganda coup and helped lend credence to their claim on the loyalties of the world’s Muslims. She’d have been required to give al-Baghdadi a pledge of allegiance on arrival. She’d have been a direct source of support for her fighter husband.
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So to put it in context what is her crime and what should be her punishment if she faced British justice?
 
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