she jumped the shark and starting calling people like chomsky antisemitic
The Independent Group for Change | Have decided to disband after ten months
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Ann Coffey on Five Live was asked about the level of abuse and anti Semitism in the party. She could not answer but said a friend of hers had come under abuse,when asked again about the personal abuse she as had ,she said that anytime she was on twitter and said something about Corbyn ,she was called a Red Tory . If that is her level of abuse maybe politics is not for her. This as nothing to do with Anti Semitism , Bullying ,Brexit ,this is all about Corbyn.
Seems to be going as well as Owen Smith's leadership campaign so far.
Corbyn should stand down.
Stand down for what?
I assumed they'd have a lineup ready to join throughout the day but it's looking like they've fecked it up.
If you've got no leader or no message why start a new party, they could have done what most do and just resign the whip then stand in a by-election as an independent.
If you've got no leader or no message why start a new party, they could have done what most do and just resign the whip then stand in a by-election as an independent.
WTFBest comment I've seen on Twitter so far: "The Blair Rich Project"
Must be part of his cunning plan - to have 14 less MPs than at the last GE and to propose unicorns to the EU.
You realise that’s a negative, right?
Oh, I am shocked.
The telling thing will be if any remain conservative remain mp's quit next week and cross the benches to join.
That would give them some real (excuse the pun) momentum.
Equally if Corbyn is faced with backing a second referendum or not and decides not there might be another tranche of MPs quit
Without one or both of those it could well fizzle out pretty quickly but with both of those it could actually become the third party pretty quickly and if also a bunch of erg type go to the brexit party we really will have a new political landscape
That would give them some real (excuse the pun) momentum.
Equally if Corbyn is faced with backing a second referendum or not and decides not there might be another tranche of MPs quit
Without one or both of those it could well fizzle out pretty quickly but with both of those it could actually become the third party pretty quickly and if also a bunch of erg type go to the brexit party we really will have a new political landscape
Yeah I know but its also reality.
I doubt they will. Most of the big Remainer Tories are dyed-in-the-wool Conservatives like Clarke and Soubry who have been around for a long time and probably don't have any long-term ambitions to advance further in the party than they already have. If things get bad enough to the point where they don't want to be Tories, I suspect they'll quit before they switch. Wollaston is the only one I can think of that they might get, and even then I'd say it's unlikely.
I'd say a key difference which makes it unlikely it that whereas the Labour splitters already didn't like Corbyn and can use this as a convenient excuse to break from the party fully while still trying to retain some moral credibility, the likes of Clarke and Soubry probably aren't all that far away from May ideologically, who is the exact opposite of an outsider within the party. Those who are dissatisfied with her are primarily pissed off at her approach to Brexit as opposed to her ideological views which are fairly bog-standard for the Tory party.
Corbyn won't back a second referendum until May returns from Europe with nothing new to add to her deal, and that gets rejected again. Then, its either second referendum or leave with no deal.
Second referendum wins
Second referendum wins
I'd say there's been a slight shift. If you look at the polling for a considerable period of time post-election, Labour were regularly winning. Not by a substantial amount, of course, but they were generally in front and sometimes looking close to establishing a strong lead. Now they're generally either behind or - at best - level. The shift's a small one, but it's definitely happened, and the general deterioration of Corbyn's personal numbers suggest the party isn't exactly headed in the right direction. And it should be especially concerning for Labour when said small margins can define or swing an election.
Of course, it's difficult to tell how any hypothetical election would change things, because Corbyn generally does better when he's in the midst of an immediate campaign, but an opposition leader needs to be able to sustain momentum like that beyond a select period. Corbyn seems to struggle to.
Although I do wonder if this split (depending on where it goes from here) could have a reverse effect where it, if anything else, gives Labour a slight boost. Thus far it's been a calamity to the point where Corbyn almost looks somewhat competent and respectable by comparison.
Despite the importance of all this, I'm really becoming apathetic to the whole situation. It's hard to keep up.
I think the UK's currently in this bizarrely unique period where things are simultaneously really chaotic but static at the same time. We're in the midst of a process of huge change...yet no deals or agreements are being reached in regards to that process. We've got two deeply unpopular party leaders...yet both persist on and remain in power anyway. So you find yourself in a situation where nothing seems to be happening even though lots also is, if that makes sense. Something will have to give at some point.
In the middle of brexit is in truth pretty poor timing... They might get a week of the media spotlight... They will probably dominate the narrative of pmq for a week.
But by next week its all about brexit again and the focus is back on the government benches.
I'm not so sure... I think it's sitting on the fence a little longer and allowing no deal so he can blame may
We're in the thick of it Christmas special, this is the Ben Swain leadership bid.
Unless they get more centrist to centre left labour MP's to join them(Tories never leave the Tory party)which is a big if considering they all seem to hate each other and the god awful launch today, then I see them disappearing within a year and losing their seats next election.
And all of this is just the problems of starting a political party, let alone trying to win over voters.
Glad to see the mighty Skwawkbox have their best investigative minds on this, applying their usual journalistic rigour.
Funky Town Central, here we come! Choo-fecking-choo!
So. Are you suggesting that all seven are telling lies?
Depends on how dissolutioned Labour voters are doesn't it.
Their issue at the moment though is that they don't have enough MP's to do anything with those disillusioned voters. I reckon a few of the big names like Chuka could perhaps retain their seats but without more MP's the whole bid will seem quite pointless.
Aye, doesn't feel like they've gotten enough names - or important names for that matter - to do anything substantial. There are some big centrist names out there who perhaps carry a bit of gravitas even if you're not necessarily a fan, but the only one in there who seems particularly important is Chuka, who's basically been the poster boy for anti-Corbyn sentiment since Corbyn was first elected. Had they been able to win over some big former cabinet members then you'd maybe give them a better shot at doing well. As it stands, all quite hopeless.
A party created to follow the latest fads. Just what we need. Not an independent thought between them
Want a second vote on Brexit because the voters might have changed their minds/have learned new facts
Don’t think leaving a party changes the facts sufficiently to warrant a second vote on who their MP is for their constituents
Don’t think leaving a party changes the facts sufficiently to warrant a second vote on who their MP is for their constituents
That is a fair point.
I don’t really care that much about this group.
What I do care about is the future of the Labour party and them being a credible party in government.
The British electorate does not vote for extreme left wing parties and that means Labour as they stand will not be in power for a very long time.
Chicken and egg kinda thing, until someone big goes not many others will follow, and someone big isn't gonna go unless it looks like something substantial is happening. It was a little over a month from the Limehouse Declaration when a fairly sizeable chunk of MPs defected (although the SDP wasn't created for a month or so), but that was with a genuine big beast leading things.
Bunch of wankers
True, I think it's inherently going to struggle without a big name that carries some gravitas though. They'd have stood a chance had they been able to come up with a more cohesive platform as well but thus far it seems they're anti-Brexit and nothing else. Which is understandable and all, but probably not particularly wise electorally.
I mean the list of aims on the website isn't greatly different in detail to the Limehouse declaration itself. In fact a lot of it just looks reworded tbh.
https://poluk.fandom.com/wiki/Limehouse_Declaration
https://www.theindependent.group/statement
Another thing was that neither Jenkins and Williams were MPs at the time, so it was easier for them to make the gesture.
Reading about tonight's PLP, there's plenty of sympathy (and anger at the leadership) but little appetite to take the step.
Will be interesting to see what happens from here. I reckon Corbyn's days are relatively numbered, and so if anything this group may act as a catalyst to try and force him out if they do gain any traction. But at the same time I'd always thought Chuka was fairly risk-averse till now, and I was surprised he was the first big face who took the plunge. Probably fecked any slim hopes he had at becoming Labour leader away. Although maybe he knew he never stood much of a chance anyway.