Champions League Round of 16 (12th Feb - 13th Mar)

roonster09 said:
Bayern are not better than 2010 inter.
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My bad, I misread it. Thought it was a reference to Inter this season, in particular when they played at the Nou Camp.

I don't remember Mou's Inter playing any more defensively than Bayern did last night. Less possession oriented sure, but his teams generally got more numbers forward, particularly when there was a chance to break.

Bayern last night even when attacking had maybe 2-3 players involved. I can't see how they could have gone any more defensive. The whole team was geared towards cancelling Liverpool out rather than their own strengths, you've got two very attack minded fullbacks not allowed past the halfway line and two tricky wide players who are doing more work tracking back than actual offensive play. Even their attacking midfielder ran his heart out and the two central midfielders never seemed to push up at all.

For me, that was a bus parked but with possession player rather than allowing Liverpool to constantly siege. Keep the ball in your own half and kill the intensity of the opposition.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Bayern are better than Inter or the Faroe Islands. They just parked the bus with more quality in possession.

The vast majority of their team were camped inside their own half. They offered no attacking intent whatsoever aside from on very rare occasions.

Maybe Lewandowski would have shot from 50 meters out, problem is he never actually got the ball in a position where shooting was even possible.
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Didn't Bayern have a few chances to score? I remember Allison making at least 2 crucial saves. Also, the difference is, that Bayern was still intending to play football. They did not just hoof it over the half way line for 90 minutes. As @roonster09 said Inter was a very good team in 2010 in no way worse than current Bayern (The worst Bayern since '08?).
 
KirkDuyt said:
Didn't Bayern have a few chances to score? I remember Allison making at least 2 crucial saves. Also, the difference is, that Bayern was still intending to play football. They did not just hoof it over the half way line for 90 minutes. As @roonster09 said Inter was a very good team in 2010 in no way worse than current Bayern (The worst Bayern since '08?).
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No. They had a shot from range at one point and I think that was the closest they got. As far as I know Alisson didn't actually make a single save, or at least I don't remember one.

Bayern intended to play football by passing it around their own half. That isn't attacking intent, it's just keep ball in order to stop the opposition from being able to attack. It's if anything more defensive minded than hoofing it over the half way line, because at least then you're trying to throw the ball forward. You don't have to play super direct in order to be parking the bus.

I got mixed up, didn't see 'mou's inter' so thought it was a reference to Inter this season. The Inter Mourinho managed was better than this Bayern side, but also had more attacking intent than Bayern did last night, aside from in exceptional circumstances (down to 10 men at the nou camp). They would defend in numbers but when there was a counter attacking opportunity players would join in.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
No. They had a shot from range at one point and I think that was the closest they got. As far as I know Alisson didn't actually make a single save, or at least I don't remember one.

Bayern intended to play football by passing it around their own half. That isn't attacking intent, it's just keep ball in order to stop the opposition from being able to attack. It's if anything more defensive minded than hoofing it over the half way line, because at least then you're trying to throw the ball forward. You don't have to play super direct in order to be parking the bus.

I got mixed up, didn't see 'mou's inter' so thought it was a reference to Inter this season. The Inter Mourinho managed was better than this Bayern side, but also had more attacking intent than Bayern did last night, aside from in exceptional circumstances (down to 10 men at the nou camp). They would defend in numbers but when there was a counter attacking opportunity players would join in.
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Louis van Gaal would disagree with you! :wenger:

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I though Matip almost made an own goal after a Bayern cross, which Allison saved by getting in the way of it with his body? Either way, I think our definition of parking the bus is simply different. Bayern played conservatively, I agree, but they did also show some intend to at least try and attack, even if they weren't very successful at it.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Louis van Gaal would disagree with you! :wenger:

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I though Matip almost made an own goal after a Bayern cross, which Allison saved by getting in the way of it with his body? Either way, I think our definition of parking the bus is simply different. Bayern played conservatively, I agree, but they did also show some intend to at least try and attack, even if they weren't very successful at it.
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Just watched the highlights again and the ball did bounce off Matip straight in to Alisson at one point. The only other save I could see was a shot going wide.

Every team shows at least some intent to attack, you can't not go forward. It was basically just Lewandowski in the box always, at one point he was marked by like 3-4 Liverpool players because there were no other Bayern players actually surging forward.
 
fcnrz said:
This is simply not true, Bayern were pressing high sometimes and had similar amount of chances to score, Coman hitting the side net, Gnabry having a good shot saved by Alison, Gnabry two crosses that were luckily cleared by Matip..

Both teams didnt want to open up so much and it made sense for Bayern to play more deep not leaving space for the fast Liverpool players and waiting maybe to score from a given situation one goal from either side would have change the match for the other team for the worst. Very similar match was Tottenham-Dortmund both teams playing safely not wanting to risk without creating chances then one moment and Tottenham were leading out of nothing after that it was easier for them having the lead.

In the end my point was that everybody were saying that Bayern would get smashed and that "they need to lube up" and yet like i said clearly the worst Bayern in recent times were very close to the best Liverpool in long time. And now we are reading excuses how Bayern were "parking the bus', no they were playing smart and got away without conceding a goal at Anfield where not many teams managed to do so and btw that was the first clean sheet for Bayern in 2019 so you can imagine how bad this Bayern is right now conceding two goals by Augsburg and co.
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Bayern pressed in the first half, their press disappeared in the second. Pressing does not = attacking intent anyhow. If you honestly think they had a similar amount of chances to score I can only conclude you're being delusional about the topic, Liverpool weren't great but created far better chances.


You don't want to accept that Bayern came and played very defensively, that's fine. It wasn't similar to the Dortmund vs Spurs game at all, both teams in that match pushed their full backs forward and got forward in numbers. Bayern didn't get forward in numbers, their fullbacks remained back constantly, their wingers worked incredibly hard defensively, Lewandowski barely saw the ball as a result. Acting like both sides played 'safely' when Liverpool were getting twice as many men forward for attacks is ridiculous. They weren't leaving themselves completely open but they had far more attacking intent than Bayern did.

Everyone said Bayern would get smashed because Bayern usually approach games differently, it was their first clean sheet because they parked the fecking bus. They sat back with possession in their own half and tried very obviously to get a draw. They were wasting time in the FIRST HALF of the game, that's how little intention they had of winning the match. They weren't 'close' to Liverpool, they played the same way a side like Newcastle can, just with added possession in their own half.

Bayern's performance was crap. A top side can't be that pointless going forward, and if they open up they'll probably get beat at home. Liverpool still should have scored at least 1 and were clearly the sharper, more positive side despite being poor themselves, especially in the final third. This was a Liverpool side missing both of their first choice central defenders, they were there to attack and grab a couple of away goals, but Bayern didn't even want to pass the half way line most of the time.
 
This discussion reminds me of the last few years when Bayern got beat by the Spanish top teams again and again, where they got ripped apart by the media for their gullible approach. At least this time their coach does seem to have half a brain, by refraining from making this an end to end game against one of the fastest front lines in Europe at the moment. Still that kind of conservative away game approach seems to displease some on here. Shows no matter what you do, there's always someone trying to rain on your parade.

Bayern did rather well to contain Liverpool to mostly half chances and to have some of their own, albeit nothing too threatening. Bayern did by no means park the bus in the classic sense though. They had 9 shots to Pool's 15, 6 corners to Pool's 5 and maintained a good amount of possession, which gave them a foundation to build on. 27% of their passes were executed in Liverpool's half, which actually is a pretty decent amount in a CL away game against a side that likes to press high up the pitch, while still quite a bit away from anything I'd call "good". For that to get better Coman, James and Gnabry can't keep giving away possession as easily as they did. Bayern need to seriously strengthen their wings in the summer if they want to start dominating games like under Heynckes again or to even come remotely close to that.

Coman and Gnabry are decent runners with some technical ability but still lack in end product and that won't cut it in the final stages of the CL.
 
can't help but think many posters here didn't watch much Bayern the last two years. this isn't the team anymore that would go to Arsenal or City and beat them 3-0 on home turf, it is a team in transition. Liverpool is one of the title favourites. a 0-0 on their turf is a very good result for *this* Bayern.
 
There has not been a big game I have been less excited for than Atlético v Juventus. Juve are fine (though not very exciting) but Atlético are just a boredom.
 
strongwalker said:
can't help but think many posters here didn't watch much Bayern the last two years. this isn't the team anymore that would go to Arsenal or City and beat them 3-0 on home turf, it is a team in transition. Liverpool is one of the title favourites. a 0-0 on their turf is a very good result for *this* Bayern.
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Pity that *this* Bayern had to be in *this* shape while facing Liverpool of all teams.:(

I hope you guys still retain your good usual CL form at home and twat them.
 
roonster09 said:
With Mane, Salah's pace it made sense to play deeper considering Hummels isn't quick. Even more important that they played deeper at Anfield as Liverpool plays all out attack in first few mins like they did vs City last season.
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even city themselves made some compromises at Anfield this year to not get beaten. It's necessary to find a balance between all out attack and parking the bus there. I thought bayern had that balance but lacked something to hurt them.
 
abdo99 said:
even city themselves made some compromises at Anfield this year to not get beaten. It's necessary to find a balance between all out attack and parking the bus there. I thought bayern had that balance but lacked something to hurt them.
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Your chances of scoring in a game are pretty low if Lewandowski is your only player in the box with 3/4 players marking him. How is that well balanced?

City were nowhere near as defensive at Anfield.
 
Water Melon said:
If it goes all the way to penos, do you think Bayern would have an advantage?
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The Germans always win in penalties so I'd say yes and the Neur factor, but Liverpool if I do remember correctly has a good track record in penalties so who knows.
Kimmich out is a big loss for Bayern but at least they have Muller and Goretzka back. I think Bayern simply need to win at home. Once Liverpool scores, they must win and they can't rely on a goalless draw for 120 minutes, and attempt to win it on penalties. It would be foolish. I think Bayern would beat Liverpool 2-1, or 3-2. We're gonna see goals in the return leg.
 
Foxtrot said:
The Germans always win in penalties so I'd say yes and the Neur factor, but Liverpool if I do remember correctly has a good track record in penalties so who knows.
Kimmich out is a big loss for Bayern but at least they have Muller and Goretzka back. I think Bayern simply need to win at home. Once Liverpool scores, they must win and they can't rely on a goalless draw for 120 minutes, and attempt to win it on penalties. It would be foolish. I think Bayern would beat Liverpool 2-1, or 3-2. We're gonna see goals in the return leg.
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SquishyMcSquish said:
Your chances of scoring in a game are pretty low if Lewandowski is your only player in the box with 3/4 players marking him. How is that well balanced?

City were nowhere near as defensive at Anfield.
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I think you're failing to make disctinion between parking the bus and playing conservative. It's not possible to leave a slow backline high up the pitch against the Liverpool trident. otherwise you risk what happened to roma last year and city. anyone who goes to Anfield must play with extra caution. those big games are usually fast, frantic and with not much chances being created on both ends it comes down to the very small details. bayern were not defensive since they edged Liverpool in the possession whilst Liverpool was more dangerous attacking at speed but not creating much either. If you limit their counter attacking you've given yourself a good chance to beat them. munich had poor performances from player like James for example in a key area to hurt Liverpool and without few more missing players they couldn't really punish Liverpool
 
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Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
Seems I did not miss anything yesterday.

Still think that this result is slightly better for Liverpool as Bayern might need to play in a more proactive way at home.
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No worries. If we play the same way as we did yesterday when we play at home and it doesn't work out, Kovac will finally get the sack.

It's okay to focus on defense when playing away against a topside, but no way it can be tolerated at home as Bayern.
 
abdo99 said:
I think you're failing to make disctinion between parking the bus and playing conservative. It's not possible to leave a slow backline high up the pitch against the Liverpool trident. otherwise you risk what happened to roma last year and city. anyone who goes to Anfield must play with extra caution. those big games are usually fast, frantic and with not much chances being created on both ends it comes down to the very small details. bayern were not defensive since they edged Liverpool in the possession whilst Liverpool was more dangerous attacking at speed but not creating much either. If you limit their counter attacking it's all huffing and puffing really. munich had poor performances from player like James for example in a key area to hurt Liverpool and without few more missing players they couldn't really punish Liverpool
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I just think they went beyond conservative. I think if you have fullbacks playing like central defenders, wingers playing like fullbacks and a midfield basically all playing as defensive mids with a striker about as isolated as it's possible to get, then you've gone all out defensive. The emphasis was all on stopping/limiting Liverpool and for me that constitutes parking a bus. I saw little intent to score except for hoping for a moment of magic or a goal off a set piece, as a lot of teams who are relegation threatened do against Liverpool every season.

Edging Liverpool in possession does not = not being defensive. Their possession was predominantly in their own half and totally ineffective at actually creating anything going forwards. That's fine and acceptable away from home, but that's just the way I see how Bayern played last night. I don't see where people are seeing any genuine intent on scoring, particularly in the second half where they ended up giving up on the press and couldn't have made it more obvious they were happy with a draw.
 
It's pathetic that City include a photo of Pep on their teamsheets.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Atletico starting with Koke, Rodrigo, Thomas, Saul in midfield and Costa up front. I think Simeone will prioritize a clean sheet and be delighted to sneak a 1-0.
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I hate that anti football manager. totally sucks the joy out of the game but you can't deny it gets him results.
 
abdo99 said:
I hate that anti football manager. totally sucks the joy out of the game but you can't deny it gets him results.
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I love him. I think this characterization of Simeone as an anti-football manager is unfair. He is also an excellent tactician. Easily a top 5 manager in Europe. Some years I had him as #1.

I think I'll actually watch the Atletico-Juve match.
 
adexkola said:
I love him. I think this characterization of Simeone as an anti-football manager is unfair. He is also an excellent tactician. Easily a top 5 manager in Europe. Some years I had him as #1.

I think I'll actually watch the Atletico-Juve match.
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You watched too many 1-0's to the Arsenal.:p
 
Can't tell whether it's going to be a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 (with Fernandinho in defense) from City. Shouldn't matter too much, Schalke are firm midtable this season

VanGaalyTime said:
City get criticized for a lot, and rightly, but that sub's bench font is the worst of all their human rights crimes.
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Absolutely
 
adexkola said:
I love him. I think this characterization of Simeone as an anti-football manager is unfair. He is also an excellent tactician. Easily a top 5 manager in Europe. Some years I had him as #1.

I think I'll actually watch the Atletico-Juve match.
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Yeah, he's a brilliant tactician. I totally understand how some are bored by his style though. Oftentimes they'll keep the plucky underdog role up vs. the Rayo's, Levante's, Girona's etc; of the world.
 
adexkola said:
I love him. I think this characterization of Simeone as an anti-football manager is unfair. He is also an excellent tactician. Easily a top 5 manager in Europe. Some years I had him as #1.

I think I'll actually watch the Atletico-Juve match.
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Inter Yer Nan said:
Personally, I love him. I've always gravitated towards Atleti in Spanish football so I have a bias but I am a big Simeone fan.
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I don't deny he's a good tactician and his methods have been fruitful over the years but i would rather watch paint dry than watch his football.
 
Nedved said:
Apart from being the more defensive choice, I think he plans to use Cancelo as Douglas Costa, i.e. 70 min quick winger sub for Dybala.
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Didn’t know that Douglas Costa was out too...

Atlético need a clean sheet here, it would be huge for them. Not sure going extremely defensive is the right option for Juve
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I just think they went beyond conservative. I think if you have fullbacks playing like central defenders, wingers playing like fullbacks and a midfield basically all playing as defensive mids with a striker about as isolated as it's possible to get, then you've gone all out defensive. The emphasis was all on stopping/limiting Liverpool and for me that constitutes parking a bus. I saw little intent to score except for hoping for a moment of magic or a goal off a set piece, as a lot of teams who are relegation threatened do against Liverpool every season.

Edging Liverpool in possession does not = not being defensive. Their possession was predominantly in their own half and totally ineffective at actually creating anything going forwards. That's fine and acceptable away from home, but that's just the way I see how Bayern played last night. I don't see where people are seeing any genuine intent on scoring, particularly in the second half where they ended up giving up on the press and couldn't have made it more obvious they were happy with a draw.
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ok fair enough. we shall agree to disagree.
 
abdo99 said:
I don't deny he's a good tactician and his methods have been fruitful over the years but i would rather watch paint dry than watch his football.
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I get that. I think it helps me that as a club and their fans make them so easy to root for too. Being that they are up against Barca and Real too should make it even easier.

Anytime I see United fans saying they want Simeone as manager though I tend to question if they watch Atletico play. He's much better than Mourinho as a coach and obviously with dealing with people but many would hate the style but love the results.
 
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