No i dont but theres plenty of articles and quotes publicly available if you are interested.
The Independent Group for Change | Have decided to disband after ten months
- Thread starter Giant Midget
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Does Jez really use that kind of txt spk?
I think convention went out the window months ago.
By the nature of that tweet, as I explained in my earlier post; the MPs who have resigned the whip have been elected by their constituencies and not solely by the Labour party within their constituencies. Therefore each TIG MP has decided they are best serving their constituents' interests by leaving the Labour Party and going independent. If the constituents do not think they have acted in their best interests come the next General Election, they will be voted out. It's really that simple, if you don't see how saying they have to force a by-election because the constituents voted for Labour and not that specific MP then you are saying what Corbyn said is wrong. He knows how the electoral system works, therefore he is being hypocritical by demanding by-elections.
That was nine years ago (in the mid to late 2000s it was common for text speak to be used on phones and social media) and the character limit on twitter at the time was 140. Put the text in a character counter and it says 137 so might have used selective text speak to get it to all fit in one tweet.
He/his social media team don't use text speak anymore.
Agree with this. If TIG go on to form a party, the honourable thing to do would actually be resign to force by-elections.
Don't be silly, he was going for the grime vote.
It's a complete feck you to all the people who fundraised and campaigned for them which is what I don't like. Most of these MPs would have not got their deposit back as independents as they were parachuted in to the area they stood in - why would anyone have voted for them? They owe a lot to people who volunteered their time and money to help them but more importantly Labour to win - often despite (proven to be correct) misgivings about their personal positions. What they have done here is stick two fingers up at those people. Convention or not it's not very nice is it.
Not at all. You are talking nonsense.
1. You can understand that in our electoral system you vote for MP rather than party/leader.
2. You can also believe that because the electorate largely vote for party/leader rather then because of the local MP - any MP quitting their party should trigger a by-election.
These are not mutually exclusive and understanding point 1 whilst believing point 2 is absolutely not hypocritical at all. When someone kicks the ball out because their teammate is injured... the other team tend to throw them the ball back because it's the honest thing to do. Nothing in the rules says you have to do that and knowing that the rules don't say that but still believing you should throw it back is not hypocritical either.
I agree, however I think that actually says more about the practice of parachuting random people who have no prior knowledge or link to a constituency simply so that they can be safely elected into the House of Commons. Furthermore, it's kind of irrelevant that Labour Party members campaigned for them because as previously stated, the MP represents those people who didn't vote for them as much as the people who did. You can't pick and choose who you listen to based upon what is easiest for you.
Last edited:
Thanks - makes sense.
There's no such convention, out of all the defections to the SDP only one called a by election (and lost).
To take that analogy though it's like a manager kicking off in the press because the opposition didn't throw the ball back... Only there is a tweet from a few years ago saying there is no obligation on the opposition to throw the ball back... Said manager would look like a hypocritical idiot wouldn't they
It depends? It's only hypocritical if that is his opinion and he doesn't believe the honourable thing is to throw the ball back...
There is nothing in that Corbyn tweet to suggest that he agrees with the system. He almost in fact seems apologetic about it.
The reaction Corbyn generates with the libs on here is really something else. You think people were talking about Leon Trotsky.
Madness.
It's a shame the original tweet is deleted as it would shed light on the context. I'm sure I remember seeing it before and it was about wanting to vote for Corbyn in Islington but not wanting to support New Labour (hence the "you can cast your vote feeling comfortable" part.)
Yeah, it would be good to know the context behind it which would shed some light...
I just don't think it's fair to say from that tweet alone sans context... that he is stating it as his opinion. To me it looks like he is just explaining how the system works.
Can't lose her cushy job at Westminster.
With a rebel yell!
Soubry is a clown, but she also receives 3/4 death threats a week. It's ballsy of her to do this.
How would them resigning help stop Brexit?
Is there any recall petitions happening for any of the people who have joined t.i.g. as far as I'm aware that's the correct and legal route to force a by election if the m.p. is seen to no longer represent the constituients
I think only 10% of the population have to sign it... Which you would think if it's true that loads of people who voted for them feel betrayed would be relatively easy to achieve and would trigger the by election that these people feel is appropriate.
I think only 10% of the population have to sign it... Which you would think if it's true that loads of people who voted for them feel betrayed would be relatively easy to achieve and would trigger the by election that these people feel is appropriate.
For chukka I think it's about 80k population
So they need 8k people...
12k voted conservative and about 1k ukip
Even without that they had 38k labour votes
So if 20% of labour voters alone signed the petition there would be a by election
Seems the logical and legal route to take... I'm surprised it does not seem to be getting much attention
They're starting a pro-EU political movement. My guess is that they're hedging their bets against an economically and politically chaotic post-Brexit landscape where they will campaign on a platform of rejoining the EU.
The reaction Corbyn generates with the libs on here is really something else. You think people were talking about Leon Trotsky.
Madness.
I reckon that’s because he made - and continues to make - such a shambolic mess of preventing the Tories from wrecking the country to appease fecking UKIP. That’s a monumental blot on any Labour leader’s copybook, so is bound to cause strong feelings.
When the guy resigned from Labour yesterday he was asked the question about standing down for re-election on the BBC. He stated that in Birmingham this had happened to Labours advantage in that control of the council had changed positively for Labour when a councilor had switched parties. He said Corbyn never asked the councilor to stand for re-election then so why should he do so now?
I don't know if this is bullshit or not but if the gist is correct then it answers your point. If he went along with party switching without standing down for re-election when it suited but argues against when it doesn't then...
It'd be interesting to see if standing down when switching parties is a common and expected thing. I've never paid any attention to it, but perhaps it's simply a case that most Politicans don't need to ask because its an expected part of the deal (of switching parties).
Gut feel that going to be a very hard battle... Unless the EU would be prepared To offer us terms of no euro same rebates and vetos...
I doubt the EU will agree that so it will be very difficult to win a referendum to rejoin...
Basically this. I consider him complicit to this shambolic situation that in. I reckon history will judge him very harshly for failing to provide opposition at a time when it is most needed.
He’s not even in government and he’s losing MPs faster than the Tories. His ratings are at rock bottom. Well fecking done Jezza
I'm not really sure how council politics works in this country tbh so can't comment too much on that but parliament works in a specific way. Yes technically you elect your MP, not party (and I have met people who vote differently at general elections than you'd expect because their local MP, while of an opposing party, did such good work for their constituency, but that is not the standard. Most people don't vote for personalities or individuals, they vote for the party. So Umunna did not get elected, especially initially because he's Umunna, neither did Soubry. They were elected because they were put forward by the labour party.
History will look back at this point and tell us that nobody seriously wanted the job to deliver Brexit, it's very much a poisoned chalice and no matter which party took it on would get a significant amount of blame thrust their way when it goes to shit. This is why May is always backed, everyone wants her to take the fall as being the PM that ruined the country.
I've been thinking about this and whether it may be the ultimate outcome of this but even if it is, I don't think it would be for a long long time, would likely require quite a bit of pain in the UK and ultimately an entire paradigm shift in how the majority of our population views the EU and Europe (and potentially our place in the world).
The obvious difference there is that Labour MPs are subject to the whip and run on a manifesto whilst Labour councillors aren't and don't. When a Labour MP is voted in they are by and large expected to vote with the manifesto they ran under, as decided by the party. Councillors generally run on a far more individual platform which isn't imposed by the party and when elected they aren't subject to a whip. Which makes sense because as local representatives councillors have to mould their campaign and the decisions they make in office around local issues of which the central party authority wouldn't have knowledge. Whether that's a good or bad thing overall is up for debate, as a lot of Labour councils end up doing stuff that directly contradicts the rhetoric coming from the top, but that's how it is.
I agree but the post Brexit landscape is such an unknown unknown, I think its worth a gamble that they could prevail, from their point of view.
I think in the case of a no deal scenario, if the Tories are offering a low tax & low regulation economy to voters, Corbyn's Labour a 'lets pray to the magic money tree' solution and the centrists to rejoin the EU, I think the voters will go for the magic money tree.
If the government loses its majority through MP defections they’ll have to postpone/get extension and go for GE surely? The majority of MPs (and I’m pretty sure the people too) don’t want a no-deal Brexit because it’s economically catastrophic.
The government currently holds out to getting ERG to back a deal, so they are basically surrendering to them. If they lose their majority try to appease them would be inconsequential as they would still not be able to pass that deal through parliament
Looking at people, yes. Looking at parties, no. The Tories wanted to deliver Brexit, unlike Labour who’s voter are more pro European. The whole thing was a Tory brainchild to prevent losing votes to UKIP. So they are leading this.
In theory delivering Brexit should tar the party that drives it in the same way it will do with the politician/leader. That’s what Jezza is backing on, to get elected. But he’s so unpopular and doing such a shitty job at it, that Tories could well deliver no-deal Brexit and win the next GE with some twat like JRM or Boris in charge, that how feckless he has been at managing this..
PS. I’m typing on the phone, excuse my typos
I think Corbyn is so useless he would ask for a magic money tree and use it to hang Jews rather than collect the money
He's toxic and simply unelectable
Joking...well half joking... He is unelectable
Parliament can only lawfully sit when a magic stick is present. My point being, the conventions and laws of British democracy say very little about how things should be.
Remind me how well a non-Corbyn labour did at opposing the Tories and UKIP in 2015, which directly caused the EU ref?
History will judge the entire country harshly for spending >5 years obsessed with its relationship to a neoliberal trading bloc whilst the last chance to prevent planetary ecological collapse flies by.
It wasn’t funny, so it wasn’t even half joking
Of course Corbyn has messed things up but these fly by night MPs call for a second referendum but refuse to contest their seats in a by election.
People would respect them much more if they do so. That would show that the constituents voted for them personally and not because of the Labour party.
People would respect them much more if they do so. That would show that the constituents voted for them personally and not because of the Labour party.