I'm hoping Lyon go through. If Ajax can overturn a deficit, then I don't see why Lyon can't get a draw on the night
Yeah I think we'd beat Spurs over two legs as well, but that'd be closer than City/PSG/Atletico/Barca.Champions League Round of 16 (12th Feb - 13th Mar)
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I'm hoping Lyon go through. If Ajax can overturn a deficit, then I don't see why Lyon can't get a draw on the night
Yeah I think we'd beat Spurs over two legs as well, but that'd be closer than City/PSG/Atletico/Barca.Yes, really. Being drawn against Barca, Atletico or City would all be tougher draws than PSG, Liverpool too IMO.
That's 4 clubs out of 7 possible draws that would be tougher draws than PSG.
Why? Have you seen PSG at all this season?
Liverpool needed a last minute goal to beat them at Anfield without Verratti and they comfortably won at Old Trafford without Neymar. They’re a great team from top to bottom with a great tactician in charge
I doubt he watches anything other than Spurs.
To be fair, 3-2 doesn't show how dominant we were for large periods of that game, but they absolutely trumped us in the return fixture.
They're a great team. Mbappe is
Porto to go through today. Roma are just crap.
Porto are in shit form too
There definitely are. Let's not act like they're the end all be all now just because they beat United at Old Trafford. They've always flattered to deceive in the CL despite strong domestic campaigns and are without their best player.
City and Atlético for example would be tougher matchups than PSG.
No, it's not because they beat United at Old Trafford, that has nothing to do with it as we were not a particularly tough opposition for them. It's because they have nothing to play for in the league, have some very good players recovering from injuries and are hungry for European success and now also have a far better manager than in the past. Personnel wise I don't think there is anyone who is visibly better than them.
I'm not really that sure about Atletico. They are a very tough team to play against for sure, completely different type of problem than PSG. And I'd probably have PSG on par with City when it comes to the first team, the difference is City are competing for the league title while PSG will rest all their players the weekend before they play you.
This is a team with Mbappe, Neymar and Cavani up front, possibly the best front three in football, and some top class midfielders and defenders as well. They underperformed under Emery but Tuchel is a different manager altogether.
I really can't see Tottenham beating them over two legs. I could maybe see Tottenham giving Atletico a problem.
All fair points, except that I really don't rate Tuchel as a top (tactical) manager.
I also think PSG would be too much for Spurs, mind you, but still think there are stronger teams left in the tournament.
I would personally have them in tier 1 with Atletico, City and Barcelona to win the trophy, however Barcelona are really on the brink of that tier as I think they have serious issues with the quality of that team that are masked by their consistency in the league. All 4 are favourites and it's hard to say which of them is the best.
Then in tier 2 I'd have teams that could win the trophy with a good run but are not among favourites - the winner of Liverpool v Bayern really.
Then tier 3 - teams that are underdogs, that is Ajax, Tottenham and the winner of Porto v Roma.
If Juventus progress they will jump immediately into tier 1.
PSG are great and would be favourites against us, but I'd rather face them than any of Liverpool/Bayern, City, Atletico or Barcelona.
Like @RobinLFC says, they have a poor CL record which hasn't suddenly changed because they beat United 2-0. I didn't think they were anything special in that tie either, was just one of the few poor games United have played under Ole.
Like @RobinLFC says, they have a poor CL record which hasn't suddenly changed because they beat United 2-0. I didn't think they were anything special in that tie either, was just one of the few poor games United have played under Ole.
City have a poor CL record as well, so I'm not sure that stick should be solely used against PSG. Not sure City are now significantly better than PSG because they beat Schalke 3-2.
Personally think recent records isn't the best way to judge how at team will perform in the CL.
Yes, I have seen them.
I'm not saying they're not a strong a team, but simply that, IMO, they are not as strong as Barca, Atletico City, or Liverpool - and so out of 7 possible QFs draws, a draw against PSG for Spurs would be better than the majority of the alternatives.
I can see that although I would drop Atletico into tier 2, and for me Juventus would only be tier 2 as well if they somehow beat Atletico.
Having said that I don't think there's a lot separating the teams right now and I can see any team win against any team if they perform on the day and things go their way.
edit: I would also only have PSG in tier 2 as well.
positive news from last night, BVB not only is now on level with Real Madrid, they already announced they will focus the rest of the season on defending the german vice-champion title.
I agree entirely with your rankings. We'd definitely have the edge over the tier 3 teams, while being underdogs against the tier 1 teams. It's really hard to separate tier 1 & tier 3 teams further.
(Ajax playing like they did yesterday would be a tier 2 team as well).
True, but I straight up rate City as a better team than PSG. Better manager and better squad in my view.
It's not, but some teams just seem to have a knack for European football, although with Madrid out it does seem the most open it has been in ages. No doubt PSG are very, very good and again, they'd be clear favourites to progress against us, I would just view PSG without Neymar as an easier task than say City, who I think 9/10 times knock us out.
Also, if Atletico/PSG are in tier 1, then Liverpool (who are likely to get 90+ points in the league this season and got to the CL final last year) have to also be tier 1, in my opinion. I think they're a better side than Atletico and pretty even with PSG.
You are severely underestimating us in the CL and overestimating PSG. They were not better than us over our two games in the group stages. They don't have a home advantage in knock-out ties like we do either.
Ajax is definitely a tier below the rest as well. Yes they had a great game last night but they've been nothing special in the league and were up against a very poor Real side.
Tier 1: Atlético/Juventus, City
Tier 2: Barcelona, PSG/United, Liverpool/Bayern
Tier 3: Tottenham, Porto/Roma, Ajax
PSG are being over-rated in this thread.
They're the dominant team in a 2nd tier European league .... and domestically don't face anywhere near the same level of domestic competition as faced regularly by the likes of Liverpool, City or Spurs.
And it's not as if they've been any great shakes in the CL either.
People get hypnotised by big money fees and wages - Neymar, blah blah blah - and then start to see some clubs in a much rosier light than they actually merit.
They're the dominant team in a 2nd tier European league .... and domestically don't face anywhere near the same level of domestic competition as faced regularly by the likes of Liverpool, City or Spurs.
And it's not as if they've been any great shakes in the CL either.
People get hypnotised by big money fees and wages - Neymar, blah blah blah - and then start to see some clubs in a much rosier light than they actually merit.
Agreed. People are putting PSG in the top tier for no reason other than because they beat United, they weren't even that good! Played pragmatically and grabbed a set piece goal/one off the counter after Lingard and Martial went off. United were really, really poor and they took advantage of that, but it was hardly a sensational performance which really marks them as a tier 1 team. Very, very good defensively in that game and superbly well organised, but nothing incredible.
They were very inconsistent in the groups and I thought Napoli outplayed them in both games, with you outplaying them at Anfield. Clearly a great side with talent in abundance but especially without Neymar I don't yet see them in the top tier above sides like Liverpool.
I wouldn't put us in tier 2. We've done nothing in the CL since our last final which was 8 years ago! A scrappy win at Juve aside.
(Hopefully that changes tonight!
)Absolutely no chance are Juventus a higher tier than PSG. If you think PSG's points total flatters them by playing in a farmers league, it's nothing compared to Juventus' this season. Not to mention their terrible cup performances domestically. Even if Juve do manage to get through, & everyone is blown away by their application & their never-say-never attitude, I'd much rather us go up against them than PSG - especially a PSG with Cavani back.
Ajax had two very good games against Real, & ourselves & Spurs haven't been great at all in recent weeks. That game at Anfield versus Bayern almost put me in a coma it was so shite
Barcelona are the weirdest ones for me. I can't really put them as the outright favourites, but I'm not sure if I should be putting them below the likes of City/PSG/Atletico, either.
City having a better manager and a better squad is a better reasoning than any previous knack for European football especially this year. PSG on the flipside have the knack of being able to rest players in the league from now on which can't be underrated.
PSG without Neymar seems like an easier task for sure, but it sure frees up Mbappe. Anyway I think Neymar is returning soon.
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Hard to call Porto-Roma. Porto has not been good recently but I wouldn't back Roma to win/draw at the Dragao or score more than one goal...
and the suckers had to lose against benfica, bad weekend for me.
It's interesting and difficult to handicap the sides. PSG and City perhaps have the most depth, talent and attacking qualities but also poor records in Europe and in PSG's case such a weak league that it's possible they don't keep the necessary intensity whereas City have a title challenge on their hands so they may be too pre-occupied. I also think Pep is a bit stubborn and is prone to not try to win ugly or adapt when/if necessary. Both sides are prone to a single game capitulation. Having said that both are excellent sides and are clearly in tier 1.
Barca is a weird one. Probably have done enough to win the league without having to go full throttle domestically though are a bit unbalanced and over reliant on Messi, who can tend do fizzle out of his earlier season form come March/April due to the workload he has there. Also a tier 1 but also prone to a capitulation and IMO slightly behind the aforementioned in likelihood of winning it all.
Atletico have a great chance because of the tier 1 sides they are the most likely to win ugly, least likely to crash and burn in a single game and really benefit from being by far the strongest defense so added edge of the away goals rule being in their favor. They do have less firepower than the above teams though so if they went 1-0 down at home it hurts them more than the others. One interesting thing is that under Simeone, Atletico have never been eliminated by any of the sides left in the cup whereas all the other tier 1 contenders have been and in some cases by multiple sides. I think all of this plus having the final at home makes them my favorites to win the whole thing.
I think the winner of Bayern-Liverpool would be the team between the gap from the tier 1/serious contenders and the tier 3 rank outsiders.
Tier 1 (in rough order IMO) - Atletico, PSG, City, Barca
Tier 2 winner of Bayern/Liverpool (which I think will be Bayern)
Tier 3 (in rough order) Spurs, Porto/Roma (which I think will be Porto), Ajax
Of course Juventus or United could pull miracles and I certainly hope we do. If both do then I'd put them both in tier 2.
Barca is a weird one. Probably have done enough to win the league without having to go full throttle domestically though are a bit unbalanced and over reliant on Messi, who can tend do fizzle out of his earlier season form come March/April due to the workload he has there. Also a tier 1 but also prone to a capitulation and IMO slightly behind the aforementioned in likelihood of winning it all.
Atletico have a great chance because of the tier 1 sides they are the most likely to win ugly, least likely to crash and burn in a single game and really benefit from being by far the strongest defense so added edge of the away goals rule being in their favor. They do have less firepower than the above teams though so if they went 1-0 down at home it hurts them more than the others. One interesting thing is that under Simeone, Atletico have never been eliminated by any of the sides left in the cup whereas all the other tier 1 contenders have been and in some cases by multiple sides. I think all of this plus having the final at home makes them my favorites to win the whole thing.
I think the winner of Bayern-Liverpool would be the team between the gap from the tier 1/serious contenders and the tier 3 rank outsiders.
Tier 1 (in rough order IMO) - Atletico, PSG, City, Barca
Tier 2 winner of Bayern/Liverpool (which I think will be Bayern)
Tier 3 (in rough order) Spurs, Porto/Roma (which I think will be Porto), Ajax
Of course Juventus or United could pull miracles and I certainly hope we do. If both do then I'd put them both in tier 2.
You're on a United forum saying things like "it will be hilarious to see United out tomorrow" Why do you feel the need to come on this forum chatting nonsense like this? Just no need for it.
Ok, but Roma look very week at the back. They concede for fun.
It was said in response to @Sarni who said (in this thread and following our game last night against Dortmund) "Will be hilarious to see Spurs drop out of top 4".
But I haven't noticed you taking issue with him. Did I miss it?
That was only because you were acting like United fans would be hurting because Spurs won a knockout game painting this as some sort of great achievement. I found it funny.
It's a pretty big achievement for our club. I get that to United fans it's no big deal, but to us a CL quarter final is very significant.
I do think Glaston is guilty of expecting other club fans to be as happy as we are about this kind of thing though, when obviously that will never be the case.
Originally I simply said that the logic of the tie dictated that Spurs play a defensive game, that we defended well and deserved to go through (which a 4 - 0 aggregate score clearly shows).
There was nothing provocative in that, just the obvious truth.
In response came a series of posts, including yours, saying that Spurs were "cowards", had a "boring" playing style and that it will be "hilarious" to see us drop out of the top 4.
But it's deemed that I am at fault, not others. Go figure the hypocrisy.
It's not only about who are the best footballing side. Knockout competition is a dogfight, where street smarts and ruthless opportunism reign supreme. Two Madrid teams and Juventus are usually doing great in this competition, not necessarily because they play the best football. That is their advantage over team like City (and maybe PSG), who are arguably more idealistic in their approach, often in contrast to supposed "nobility" of European football.
Barcelona is an interesting case. They are seemingly transforming into a more cynical side (probably just a consequence of a sheer lack of vision). But at their core, they're still a side that wants to dominate a football match, and that kind of approach entails a certain hubris and fragility that is often punished in a heavyweight knockout competition.
Barcelona is an interesting case. They are seemingly transforming into a more cynical side (probably just a consequence of a sheer lack of vision). But at their core, they're still a side that wants to dominate a football match, and that kind of approach entails a certain hubris and fragility that is often punished in a heavyweight knockout competition.
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I did not really say any of that except that it will be hilarious to see you drop out of top 4 after being so bullish about superiority of your team all season but please carry on.
I appreciate that. It’s the furthest Spurs have got in CL and with a favorable draw you may go further this year.
It’s his insistence that United fans are dying inside when Spurs win a game that is annoying.
It's weird, especially since I really don't care what United does (unless we're in direct competition) so I really doubt many United fans give a feck about our results.
If anything it would be funny to see you dick PSG tonight, I dislike them as a club far more than I do United.
All due respect, besides Arsenal, I'm not sure many non-Spurs fans care too much about what Spurs do.
But hey, I also want to see United progress tonight, so what do I know.
But hey, I also want to see United progress tonight, so what do I know.