Do you think Brexiters have the slightest clue as to what trading on WTO rules actually means? JRM is a leading cheerleader and he doesn't understand what it means.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Do you think Brexiters have the slightest clue as to what trading on WTO rules actually means? JRM is a leading cheerleader and he doesn't understand what it means.
Ok. I'll give you the courtesy of answering one more (4 x freedoms)
In sum, being tied into the EU's movement policies would not work under my vision of Brexit. I'd want the freedom to control immigration and use that freedom to bring in skilled workers from across the world. People have their own views, but I don't see how freedom of movement is a prerequisite for trade (it is if you want to create a single economy)
As I've answered your question, I'll
Ask if you going to scrutinise and 'Andrew Neal' question other viewpoints/ stances today?
Don't think Jeremy is as confident as you seem to be on this matter, the Labour Party is on the cusp of fracturing, the TIG escapade shows it's weakness. Even Angela Rayner one time darling of the left is now coming under fire for comments about Blair, who would have predicted that?
"Events dear boy, events" all unpredictable, have more likelihood of influencing matters than demographics!
so the words on the paper are up for interpretation?
the fracture is people who are hard remain not people who will split to vote for may's deal
That was @Silva ’s question, bud.
Andrew Neil is a massive nerd
Everything is open to interpretation
Freedom of movement was great in 1975 too.
So a no. I'll leave you to your agenda then
so it is fine if we leave and maintain the 4 freedoms since a number of leavers expected the norway deal
I’m just saying... it wasn’t my question. I just felt you were ignoring them.
As to questioning the Remain side... I did that back in 2016. Their answers made sense.
I was getting about 6 alerts on this thread every time I checked my phone, hard to keep up
I know your stance and will prioritise your questions on this accordingly
Yeah, because it has no chance of being voted for by remain tories before Mays deal fails. Even the people's vote folk are fine with having the vote when it has a chance of passing.
Sorry, I don't quite follow your reasoning on this one?
Won't 'hard remain' want to (excuse the pun) remain solid, they will surely vote together on each and every motion that might stop or delay Brexit, strike from behind cover, or whatever? Because if the Remain MP's 'fracture' then not just the Remain battle, but the Remain war is likely to be lost and any second referendum, should there be one, will be a vote either for May's deal, or for No deal and the remain 'rump' might as well then join the Lib Dem's and they can console one another!
This is the second time we have voted in or out of Europe, so this one shouldn't have happened. It was a referendum, not a neverendum
Some remainers thought the EU created the NHS and would spread similar magical fairy dust in the future, while others voted on the design on the Union and EU flags.
You'll find similar with other elections, but you seem to be advocating the repeat of elections and votes. If you think continous uncertainty is good, then that's your burden
As in, they want to remain in the EU and cancel article 50 after a second referendum which they think they will win. That was the purpose of the independent spliters, to force a second ref.
The point of a second referendum is provide actual terms for leaving, rather than the vague proposal which you've admitted it up to interpretation. If leave wins with actual terms set out, that happens and everyone shuts up. It's not a second in/out referendum that is again open to interpretation.
Putting viewpoints to one side, is there actually time in your opinion?
Yeah, the EU has said they will extend A50 in the event of a general election or second referendum, which would be held 6-8 weeks after being voted for in parliament.
Yes, I understand that's what Remainer's want, but splitting their forces/voting intentions as you seem to suggest they might, could end up with a second referendum being the final hurdle alright, but they might not get the question on the referendum which they want. Surely the Electoral Commission who rules on such matters will take into account the votes in the House and the numbers spread?
Splitting your forces is always a risky tactic!
Isn’t a massive amount of uncertainty exactly what Brexit has created?
You knew exactly what you were getting with the EU.
The future of the UK post Brexit is the epitome of uncertainty.
Parliament is majority remain, the difficult part is the second option on the ballot as the tories will be split over the Mays deal/No deal and there's zero consensus for either from the other parties
Thanks for clarifying
They would have to be very clear on the 5 questions/ choices on the ballot. Anything other than 2 x Brexit variants and 2 x remain options would be a disaster
Then how are they going to make that tell without some of them 'crossing the floor'? They can't keep playing for a 0-0 draw, and then after extra time losing on penalties!
Think we've come full circle?
Even if a second referendum is held, there is no guarantee (primarily because of unpredictable events) that Remain would get the question it wants on the ballot and/or win with a large enough majority for any Government to risk going against the original result. Moreover the EU are unlikely to wait very long and may not get all 27 states to agree to an extension, certainly one that cannot guarantee a Remain outcome...I wouldn't if I were the EU.
Any lengthy delay would run up against the EU elections and Farage and his buddies are already practicing their war chants in anticipation, another dose of Nigel is not what the EU wants and neither Juncker nor Tusk wants to go down in EU history as the ones who let the UK get away on their watch!
It's a matter of timeframes - short term uncertainty vs medium- long term uncertainty
I guess we'll find out next week. May's deal should fail on Tuesday, Corbyn will then table the second referendum and it depends if there's enough (need about a dozen or so) tory rebels who vote for it. Then comes the showdown for the wording.
Brexit is uncertainty across all the “terms” of the timeframe.
Really puzzling how you can be arguing against uncertainty and for Brexit at the same time.
Unlikley to pass I think... Don't think the numbers add up that said if it was a conservative back bench motion or a joint labour and conservative motion then you might get enough conservative MPs back it... Can't see more than a handful backing an official labour motion... And certainly not enough to offset the fact that the dup plus probably 15 to 25 labour MP's wouldn't back it either
Bias is trumping comprehension with you again it seems
I'm dine with you for today
It's not 15-25 labour who would oppose it, it'll be single digits
There was 7 who voted for Mays deal... I think at least double that who might not back Mays deal but don't necessarily want to vote for a 2nd referendum... And lets be honest as Corbyn voted against the labour whip over 300 times I think most feel at liberty to vote or abstain as they feel because meh hypocrisy
Flint claiming 60 to 70 labour MPs against referendum...
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/up-t...xit-referendum-caroline-flint-claims-11654131
Don't think it will be that high but I think single figures is also way out
None of these are likley to fall in line
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/seven-labour-mps-backed-brexit-bill/amp/
And looks very likley more would abstain or vote against a 2nf ref... Policy or not (also even if labour did whip votes will it be 1 line or 3 line... I suspect it would be the minimal effort as they run the risk of fracturing as much as the conservatives over brexit)
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Maybe tomorrow you’ll have an answer for what Brexit will actually do then. Since there obviously aren’t any short, medium, or long term uncertainties, and it is obviously just my bias that is clouding judgment.
At least you're getting a free dinner out of it.
I'm glad you start to think critically instead of primarily acting out of bias.
There may be hope for you yet, but best I leave you to your contemplation. Great work today, the first step is the biggest step
Did it say "2 part vote" on the 1975 referendum ballot paper?
I look forward to your explanation tomorrow.