I think we needed someone who "understood" Europe to be in charge of the Government during the negotiations. I see Mrs May as quintessentially old-style English, which might be helpful in some circumstances but not in these.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Let this train just crash ffs!
Pulling the plug and remaining is looking like an option to me. No instrument of the UK Parliament can solve this.
Whilst I don't think Labour would run a remain campaign, I do think they could possibly run a 2nd ref campaign and go from there.
May saying people haven't changed their minds on leaving the eu as she tries to get MPs to change their minds on her deal.
With Corbyn as leader I don't think it could run to the bus stop.
It's almost at the end of the line.
Labour will never campaign as a remain party with Corbyn in charge.
"I wish we were having a referendum in Britain" - JC on the Lisbon Treaty in 2004.
"I wish we were having a referendum in Britain" - JC on the Lisbon Treaty in 2004.
I don't know whether I should be happy, sad or indifferent to today's events.
Yea timing wise we have properly lucked out...
Labour will never run a remain campaign, I highly doubt they'd even run a second referendum one. A hell of a lot of their voters are also the ones who voted leave too, they aren't going to change.
Which leaves the question for those of us who are still slightly sane, who the hell do we vote for if GE comes up again?
Which leaves the question for those of us who are still slightly sane, who the hell do we vote for if GE comes up again?
No thanks, we've run away to Europe!Penna to Number 10?
I wonder if this new Independent Group might try to actually become a new party and field candidates?
That's the aim, surely? Whether it will succeed or not is a question, but it has to try or what was the point?
Only 35% of Labour voters voted Leave. So feck the 65% who didn't?
I honestly don't see it. They'll have the same agenda regarding the EU and the popular vote.
It strikes me as incredibly strange that most politicians seem to want brexit, yet how many people don't trust politicians? How bizarre then that you'd vote for something both major parties pushed for, let alone nearly all the others. Basically, if all those in power wanted the same thing, surely that's pause for thought as to why?
Why wouldn't they change their stance then? Why is Corbyn still very much leave?
So why did the 65% vote Labour when it has been completely obvious that Corbyn is pro-Brexit.
Tory and Labour tribalism has ripped the UK apart.
But most MPs were remainers.
True. But because a solution to the Irish border is equally against the EU on the Irish side of the border, the disaster would equally impinge on the EU.
Anyway it appears that the ERG, Labour and the DUP are hell bent on voting against the WA.
As I mentioned earlier I despair.
Were they, were they really?
Seems kind of odd then that we are still heading for Brexit...
Because the FPTP system meant that voting Lib Dem was, in many constituencies, essentially a vote for the Tories.
Ireland will suffer of course but even without a solution the UK have to ensure they uphold the GFA, regardless of the EU agreement.
Yes desperate times that are going nowhere, so glad I don't live there any more.
Not really. This is what happens when you have a representative system and ask representatives to deliver something they don't want but their electorates do.
Yes, the vast majority. Tories were split relatively down the middle, but almost all Labour MP's were, and all Lib Dem and SNP MP's supported Remain.
There's two ways to look at it.
One, Corbyn just doesn't want to be in the EU anyway, so it wouldn't matter what the voters thought. Obviously this flies in the face of his claims that he wants to follow the desires of his membership.
The second way is to note that a majority of Labour constituencies voted Leave, even though a majority of Labour voters did not. So it could be seen as electorally foolish to back Remain, as the Remain Labourites have nowhere else to go anyway.
Personally I think both those things are true, although the calculation that they won't lose Remain supporters is extremely foolish and poorly calculated.
Makes you wonder why so many voted in favor of invoking Article 50.
Probably, thus the British parliament needs the most reform. they were looking for reform in the wrong place.
Fear of what would happen to them if they went against the result of the vote.
Ok, I'm eager to learn on this.
So why don't Labour go full remain and get the GE called? Surely if all the stats and figures are true, that would be a win?
Anecdotally as it is, I will add I know a depressing amount of people who voted Labour/no vote and still voted leave. I wonder, just like the Brexit/Trump votes in themselves, if all this stat watching really doesn't tell the true picture. Because after all, how wrong was everyone on this in the first place???
They were scared to be one of the "enemy of the people", "traitors" etc...
That's how propaganda works. It convinces the stupid and scares the intelligent.
51% of the people though, on a question not an actual vote right?
So basically they are doing what they think saves their skins and nothing more? Which brings me back around again to who the hell we vote for in a GE, because frankly neither party seem fit at all. It's all rather depressing
So basically they are doing what they think saves their skins and nothing more? Which brings me back around again to who the hell we vote for in a GE, because frankly neither party seem fit at all. It's all rather depressing
Some MP'S are stupidly acting out tribalism.
I have to say that you are probably right. They are intent on voting against everything not because it is the right thing to do but because of bravado.
Britain used to be recognised for its sense and ability to compromise.
Sadly no longer.
A lot of Labour people still fear that by going against the 2016 vote they'll be seen as anti-democratic. Their logic is that most Labour Remainers will stick with the party anyway because there's no viable alternative. A lot of key Labour constituencies opted for Leave, and they worry that going against Brexit entirely will alienate said people, plenty of whom are working-class voters. I find a lot of aspects of this logic flawed, especially now, but that's an altogether different conversation.
Corbyn himself is historically a Eurosceptic who views the EU as too neoliberal for his own liking. Whether or not he's an actual Brexiteer is up for debate, but he's certainly not at all passionate about the EU, and received criticism for how hard he campaigned for Remain in 2016. So some feel he's a liar who pretended to support Remain for political self-gain, whereas others say he was a Remainer but is now acting pragmatically due to what I wrote in the paragraph above.
I dunno, we're at peak stupidity currently but that's also given us a tendency to view the past through a better prism than we should. The Major, Blair and Brown administrations were riddled with incompetence at times, and many of the compromises made then were done to placate Eurosceptics to an extent that eventually led to Brexit.
51% of the people though, on a question not an actual vote right?
So basically they are doing what they think saves their skins and nothing more? Which brings me back around again to who the hell we vote for in a GE, because frankly neither party seem fit at all. It's all rather depressing
If any of this farce was about the good of the country, the UK would not be in the mess it now finds itself in.
In our FPTP, constituency based system, it depends on the dispersal of Labour remain and leave voters rather than absolute numbers. I imagine the concern among Labour strategists is that, if they endorse remain, they might push their vote share in London seats up from a winning share to a huge majority, but at the same time lose some Labour voters in marginal Northern and Midlands areas and risk losing the seats.
He didn't want to do a Miliband from indyref and lose England as well as Scotland