What is even there to discuss? They are classic Nazi talking points, ‘vermins overrun our people’, ‘lebensraum’ and all that.
Mass Shooting in Christchurch, NZ Mosque | 14th March 2019
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Not my place to answer really. Just noted down that the modmins said so and have mentioned it to those who have posted it to help out.
I feel the same way, I don't even understand it all.
They have to be discussed though. That's how you educate, that's how you open peoples minds, that's how you stop these terrible things. Just criticizing, condemning and shielding the general public helps nobody, it just gets peoples backs up. It's a real failing in the Western world right now and it needs addressing.
RIP 
Shocking, but not surprising sadly.
Shocking, but not surprising sadly.Tragic, RIP
Thanks.
The way he retaliated against the kid, he would be arrested if he was in Singapore
It’s not like we have thousands upon thousands pages of literature on Nazism, their history etc... documentaries also readily available on YouTube, dozen of Oscar winning films on the Holocaust or other subjects dealing with discrimination like Apartheid.
These people chose this particular ideology readily, they aren’t deprived of the contrary evidence. Nothing us ‘*****/snowflakes/SJWs’ do will change their minds.
He didn't identify as a Nazi though.
He doesn't comment on it because @SwansonsTache is delighted by this awful, inhuman tragedy no doubt!
His whataboutery post wouldn't look out of place in the killer's manifesto; in fact, he almost paraphrased him!
After watching the video I am surprised by the amount of accumulated anger that he had to continue with that plan for 20 minutes.
From what I read he had a great knowledge of Yugoslavia, but he also names Breivik or the crusades. He even paid tribute in the guns inscriptions to Estébanez, a Nazi who killed an antifa.
A very unknown and strange story and its not the only one.
It seems that he added everything to his "ideology"
When I searched the video there were terrible comments about the victims.
No one controls those forums? Can not be closed?
From what I read he had a great knowledge of Yugoslavia, but he also names Breivik or the crusades. He even paid tribute in the guns inscriptions to Estébanez, a Nazi who killed an antifa.
A very unknown and strange story and its not the only one.
It seems that he added everything to his "ideology"
When I searched the video there were terrible comments about the victims.
No one controls those forums? Can not be closed?
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Most of the alt right crowd also don’t, but they’d be delighted to live in a society like 1938 Nazi Germany.
Semantics. He didn't literally identify as a Nazi, but he did identify as a fascist. There's a rather large overlap, and none of it is good.
I never bought the "we need to discuss the ideas, no matter how abhorrent they seem" argument. Fascists don't debate in good faith, and they never have. They're not looking for intellectual debate, or free speech, or anything like that; they're looking to muddy the waters, and to recruit.
This seems to be the attitude of Western society. It's basically "you're stupid, I'm right". Which is usually mostly true - they are stupid, you are right - but that doesn't help anyone.
Society needs to be more open and should be more willing to discuss unpleasant things, even when we think it's pointless and a waste of time.
The point is we are open for discussion, and have discussed those toxic ideologies for decades, generations, with deadly consequences, but they aren’t. None of their ideas is new, none of it hasn’t been discussed to death before, but they don’t care, because we are, in their minds, either a) hoodwinked by the globalist, Jewish cabal or b) ***** who are selling our identity away to *Muslamic* sub-human sewer dwellers.
Pretty much
Some kid egged him yesterday and he punched him before his thuggish mates also massively overreacted.
There are things that should have people jailed if they say those things and that is one of them. fecking atrocious.
I dont think you should post his manifesto, or it should be discussed. If i posted a manifesto no one would read it (quite rightly). Dont make killing a pile of people become a platform for the sharing of ideas. He went on a killing spree, i think its fairly safe to disregard what he thinks.
I'm not disagreeing that unpleasant things need to be discussed, but I'm always minded of this Sartre snippet that seems to reflect any conversation with nazi types I've ever had:
If we take whatever he wrote with any degree of seriousness then the joke's on us. We have far better source material than the ramblings of this latest lunatic with which to cover the inhumanity of these people and the misery they inflict.
Pretty much
Some kid egged him yesterday and he punched him before his thuggish mates also massively overreacted.
Those guys are fecking animals, he got egged and he beats up a kid wtf?
My word you are a hateful hateful man.
Why do you assume he is? The police interviewed him and may well lay charges.
I'd hope the massive over-reaction by Fraser Anning (the huge child punching hero) and his band of bogan thugs also results in charges.
https://jewishcurrents.org/essay/crocodile-tears-after-christchurch
A good article on a problem that I've been talking about for a while now, in right wing circles and also in some Muslim (well specifically Arab Muslim circles, where I have far more exposure). It focuses mostly on right wing Jews as a left wing Jewish publication but you can include all members of the trend, like Ali, Wilders, King, whoever you want really.
Rhetoric is dangerous, it is powerful and it can and does inspire acts like these. Words have consequences. This is the issue. Islamophobia is definitely mainstream now. And while the likes of Shapiro, Harris, King, Ali, Southern whoever may not themselves be violent or themselves openly call for violence against Muslims, I've always thought their rhetoric would eventually predispose to stuff like this. If you're saying Muslims are a threat to your civilisation, your way of life, your actual life. If you believe they're all rapists, paedophiles, terrorists and, on top of that, if you are being told that the governments are doing nothing about it, what is the logical end point of that if you're a 'person of action'? Do you sit idly while Muslims 'wipe out your civilisation'? Or do you take action?
Same is ultimately true for some in the Muslim community as well (well, mostly Arab is what I can best speak on). If you're talking about how Assad is killing Sunnis, if you're talking about how the West is doing x,y,z to Muslim ways of life, do you ultimately end up riling up certain people, even if you yourself never call for violence? In my view, yes.
Vile, vile stuff.
A good article on a problem that I've been talking about for a while now, in right wing circles and also in some Muslim (well specifically Arab Muslim circles, where I have far more exposure). It focuses mostly on right wing Jews as a left wing Jewish publication but you can include all members of the trend, like Ali, Wilders, King, whoever you want really.
Rhetoric is dangerous, it is powerful and it can and does inspire acts like these. Words have consequences. This is the issue. Islamophobia is definitely mainstream now. And while the likes of Shapiro, Harris, King, Ali, Southern whoever may not themselves be violent or themselves openly call for violence against Muslims, I've always thought their rhetoric would eventually predispose to stuff like this. If you're saying Muslims are a threat to your civilisation, your way of life, your actual life. If you believe they're all rapists, paedophiles, terrorists and, on top of that, if you are being told that the governments are doing nothing about it, what is the logical end point of that if you're a 'person of action'? Do you sit idly while Muslims 'wipe out your civilisation'? Or do you take action?
Same is ultimately true for some in the Muslim community as well (well, mostly Arab is what I can best speak on). If you're talking about how Assad is killing Sunnis, if you're talking about how the West is doing x,y,z to Muslim ways of life, do you ultimately end up riling up certain people, even if you yourself never call for violence? In my view, yes.
Vile, vile stuff.
I agree with all of that but I don't agree with the generalization of the arab muslim community, they are really few just like the alt right speakers you mentioned but its true they do have a large effect, problem is those people won't understand peace if you drill it into their heads.
Sorry, I'm not generalising the Arab Muslim community, I'm saying that like with Shapiro, Ali etc, there are a small number who espouse horrible views but who themselves are not violent and they have often gotten this from listening to others who similarly espouse horrible views but are again, not violent.
I mentioned the Arabs specifically because my wife is half Egyptian but was born and raised there and we go to Egypt a lot/she has a lot of Arab friends/I speak Arabic but not Urdu/Hindi/Malay/Turkish/Farsi/Kurdish/Bengali etc etc and therefore can't comment on what Muslims from those communities do as I can't read or understand what they may say or write. One of her brother in laws for example says some pretty appalling stuff about Shiites in general and about them in the context of the Syrian war.
Anyway, I digress and am taking the thread a bit off topic. The point I was trying to make is that speech has consequences. And the likes of Harris and Shapiro and Ali and Wilders and Le Pen and Robinson etc etc end up having a major influence. In my opinion anyway.
I know what you meant, just wanted to clarify for everybody else, but yeah I've seen comments on fb by people of the sort and there are def some questionable tv personalities to say the least mostly from Saudi.
The situation in Syria is very complicated and as you said I won't derail the thread.
Edit: an example of those personalities is Hasan Nasrullah and his hate speeches.
Pretty much
Some kid egged him yesterday and he punched him before his thuggish mates also massively overreacted.
My god, that's the first time i have read what he actually said.
It is much worse than the descriptions of his statement. It is downright disgusting.
He deserved much more than a egging in my opinion.
Well apart from all the discussions taking place in this thread . We should take a minute and commend the New Zealand Citizens, Prime Minister and the Government for their reaction after the incident . All the support , vigils and understanding has been very helpful and great .
@africanspur
I read the link and also absolutely agree with your sentiments.
However, I will also go further, the Alt-right are not the only ones responsible. I very much think ISIS, Islamists and their ilk are no less complicit than the names you mention. They too have the blood of their co-religionists on their hands. Actions and words obviously have consequences. They also play a big part in providing ammunition and feeding Islamaphobes.
I read the link and also absolutely agree with your sentiments.
However, I will also go further, the Alt-right are not the only ones responsible. I very much think ISIS, Islamists and their ilk are no less complicit than the names you mention. They too have the blood of their co-religionists on their hands. Actions and words obviously have consequences. They also play a big part in providing ammunition and feeding Islamaphobes.
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Absolutely!
This tragedy will definitely make them stronger together. A complete opposite to what the terrorist intended.
Anyone know what Milo actually said? I'm basically too lazy to look up myself.
I'm inclined to agree. Taking his nonsensical ramblings seriously, arguably adds some credence to them. His 'manifesto' should, like him, simply be consigned to the dustbin of history - dismissed and forgotten about, as though they never existed.
Pieces like the Daily Mail one posted a few times in this thread, opining about how this man got here and why he did what he did, are ludicrous. He murdered 50 innocent people, including children. He's an evil terrorist cnut. End of moral analysis.
The media really do need to be responsible in how they report these things. Don't spend days leading the 24-hour news cycle with massive pictures of the killer's face, don't broadcast the opening section of his video like some kind of teaser trailer, don't publicise his bullshit manifesto, don't glamorise him as some kind of special forces warrior by describing his "commando-style" knee pads, battle fatigues and weaponry.
Instead, the focus should be on the victims. Heroes like Haji Daoud Nabi and Naeem Rashid, who sacrificed themselves trying to save other people.
Sorry sultan I have to disagree. If we use the same logic, we can state that al Qaeda weren't the only ones to blame for 9/11 but the us government was complicit in it too which is obviously bs.
That's cute, fat pill addict tries to remain relevant thirty years after he was considered edgy and cool.
Does wishing we could wipe the world clean of these horrible alt right types make me as bad as them?
Right off of 8chan.
False flag, classic.
I'm sure he'd be saying the same thing if the roles were reversed. These people make me sick.
I'm sure he'd be saying the same thing if the roles were reversed. These people make me sick.