Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yes it could, remember it was never the Governments policy to leave the EU it really wanted to reform certain elements; however Cameron had tried this already and got short-shift, he was sent away with the proverbial flea in his ear. It was the subsequent referendum which produced the Leave vote which May ceased upon and persuaded 80% of parliament to vote for A50. The simple fact of the matter is that unprepared as it was, the Government/Parliament should not have applied for A50 until it was ready... but it did, and once it had done so, then a No Deal' situation was the only option, notwithstanding all the issues it would raise about borders and GFA.
As I have tried to explain above and in previous posts, once A50 had been actioned then 'No Deal' was the only option because the UK government was caught with its pants down and could only realistically 'negotiate' once we were out of the EU, in fairness a point the EU made time and time again. A binary choice was given in the referendum and cemented in place once A50 was applied for and it is still the case, Leave without a deal or revoke A50, there is no other choice, as I suspect we will see after the debacle that will now take place in Parliament.
Yes so if by some miracle parliament agrees on a direction and the government implement that , then the political declaration will be amended to say the intention is to remain in the customs union etc .
I don't see it but if it did happen what do Brexiters then say when they realise they are still tied to the EU and can't do their fantastic trade deals with Bongo Bongo Land.
Based on negotiations so far that probably sounds like our best way of negotiating any decent deals
I'm not sure any of the indicative votes will get a majority but I think that option has perhaps the best chance of passing.
That said I think may would rather try a general election if she can't force her deal through
The penny finally drops for Mogg. Hopefully it's still too late.
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The Brexiteers will be hoping they can oust the PM later this year and replace her with one of their own, ready for the big prize of the future relationship negotiations.
If they had any sense, they'd hold their noses and vote the WA through, for the sake of greater long-term gain. This may well still happen.
So ignoring the major piece of international law that precluded it from being an option it was an option?
You keep repeating yourself if thats what you mean, but it doesn't mean you are right. Even once A50 was triggered No Deal wasn't the only option, it was never really an option that anyone considered for the reasons i and other have been explaining. The British government have a withdrawal agreement in place agreed with the EU which proves that No Deal wasn't the only option. And there were other potential agreements that could have also been negotiated and agreed.
In short the British Government could have never came out and said they were just leaving with no deal and breaking the GFA. Even if they had wanted to, which they didnt want because despite all their collective incompetence even they're not that daft. And leaving with No Deal has numerous other undesirable implications far beyond just the border situation in Ireland.
And of course the irony here is that we may well end up leaving with No Deal because of the previously mentioned incompetence, which is seemingly rife at almost every level of the current Government.
Its all a matter of opinion, but at least we can agree on that!
The title reminds me of when @BringNaniBack left the flat earth thread.
The best trade deals the Uk can possibly get is to remain in the EU.
I still don't see how a general election will solve any of this mess. Basically most of the same MPs will be back and still not agree. The same problems that exist now will still be there in the future.
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Now it's getting fun.
The penny finally drops for Mogg. Hopefully it's still too late.
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Now it's getting fun.
Yes they want her to take the flak and then move on . When both sides of the spectrum were happy that the WA was voted down you knew there was problem.
But even if all the Tories, including the devout remainers, voted for the WA it is doubtful if will go through.
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Now it's getting fun.
Oh I think it’s been fun for quite a while now.
Rees-Mogg now supporting us becoming a "vassal state". What a climb-down. Complete blowhard idiot.
The Tories really should make JRM their leader once May has gone. He seems to be the one with the real power these days, at least if he was actually leader he would have some accountability as well. Its too easy sitting on the sidelines talking bollocks and having half the country think you are some kind of genius because nothing you say is ever actually tested. Let's see how he negotiates our future trading relationship, he still thinks we have all the cards, let him see how that works out, and if it doesnt he has to carry the can.
Truly terrible idea.
Proves that all these morons care about is “Winning”.
''The Tories in England had long imagined that they were enthusiastic about the monarchy, the church and beauties of the old English Constitution, until the day of danger wrung from them the confession that they are enthusiastic only about ground rent.”
Mine?
I see why you say that but we are all dancing to his tune anyway, this way when things go wrong he gets to say its someone else's fault.
I honestly think when people are put in positions of authority, reality slaps them in the face and they have to moderate their positions. Think Syriza in Greece.
I appreciate its a risk. But if a Brexiter isnt put in charge of Brexit we are only storing up a massive betrayal conspiracy for a later date.
I think JRM knows he would never be able to actually deliver on what he says as well, which is why he never puts himself up as a candidate.
We may soon find out. Looks like the ERG are beginning to cave.
Even if the ERG and DUP change their minds and vote for the WA, I still don't believe there is enough support in the house for it. Certainly not after May's speech last Wednesday
He’s a happy underdog. Enjoys screeching at the system, pointing out the issues and claiming there is easy fixes but has no solutions.
The worst thing about it is that he profits from the chaos. He’s another treasonous cnut.
JRM is just another charlatan.
Even leave.eu getting in on the action. Ardent Brexiters still won't wake up though
Absolutely.
Again, I think a Brexiter, a proper Brexiter, should be put in charge after May has gone, because only when one of that lot is forced to face up to reality will people accept that reality. While they are allowed to carp on from the sidelines, criticising what other people do without having to come up with real workable solutions themselves, the narrative that Brexit was "stolen" from the people by "the establishment" gains more and more credence with people. It is storing up a lot of problems for the future.
It is a big risk, I acknowledge that. It could further poison relations between the UK and the EU. But once a Brexiter has completely failed and those ideas been thoroughly discredited, the UK can show some contrition and go back to the EU with a bit more humility.
Its from the No Omelette Without Broken Eggs school of international diplomacy.
May tried this by giving Brexiters top cabinet posts, didnt work.
If you make JRM PM then we crash out with no deal, chaos ensues and he goes and lives in a tax haven somewhere. He wouldnt carry the can, the British people would.
Love this from John Baron, Tory Brexiteer. Essentially; things aren't working out how I like, so lets change everything else and run the scenario again until I bloody-well get what I want! The people spoke once, it's on record and no matter what changes we have to honour the thing that happened once and gets me what I want. Now fetch my grapes servant … and they had better be peeled!
"A snap general election is becoming more likely. Whatever the outcome of the votes on Wednesday, the numbers inside the current remain-dominated House of Commons will not change. It may be that an election is necessary to redress the balance in favour of MPs willing to implement the referendum result, for history suggests it is unwise for any parliament to distance itself from the people. The events of the next few weeks will be critical."
"A snap general election is becoming more likely. Whatever the outcome of the votes on Wednesday, the numbers inside the current remain-dominated House of Commons will not change. It may be that an election is necessary to redress the balance in favour of MPs willing to implement the referendum result, for history suggests it is unwise for any parliament to distance itself from the people. The events of the next few weeks will be critical."
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Lets ignore 5.5M signatures on a petition and over 1M people marching in London.
Instead, let's pander to 200 people and Nigel Farage.
True
Lets ignore 5.5M signatures on a petition and over 1M people marching in London.
Instead, let's pander to 200 people and Nigel Farage.
To be fair, that's a long way short of 17.4 million.
When you consider every single voter had a polling card put through their letter box but the with the petition:
1. You have to know about it.
2. You have to make an effort to look for it.
3. You have to make an effort to sign it.
Opinion polls ask a couple of thousand people, or less, what they think. Almost 1/10th of the population of the country has signed this, think about it. It's unprecedented.
But indicative that "the people" Baron claims Parliament is distancing itself from cannot refer to the population as a whole.
More than three times as many people got off their arses and went down to a polling station to vote.
Well of course not - we know that (at least) 16.1 million people are in favour of remain.
However, the fact that 5m of that 16.1m have also chosen to do a few clicks online to sign a petition, is not going to impress many leavers.
Legitimizing people like Mogg is a recipe for trouble. Yes he will mess it up and become more unpopular but we really need a steady hand at the tiller at this point in time. May etc. have already messed up the reputation of the party anyway.
You're right. The largest signed petition in UK history which acheived that total in 5 days isn't worthy of a consideration.
More than six times as aside, as the half of the population who didn't vote leave also got off their arses and down to a polling station.
There have been some strident claims that petitions and marches are 'democracy' which presumably means referendums and general elections are not. They're a good idea but if they come across as just bullying they're not going to change any minds.