Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
711 said:
For Clarke's amendment to be a compromise then Leavers would have to see some advantage in it, and I can't see that they would, I think it will get zero support from Leavers. I accept it might be a next best for Remainers, but that's not a compromise. If you are right however, and I am wrong, it will get some support from Leavers. We'll see :)
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I think the single market might be equally important, without it doesn't solve the Irish border problem.
 
JPRouve said:
None of the amendments that requires negotiation fix a single thing.
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OK. Both sides can either sit there staring at each other or try something different.
The EU has continued to as the UK for what it wants and not what it doesn't want.
At least this attempts to get to that position.
 
Are these folks especially incompetent or have they just been forced to deal with an especially difficult political issue that previous generations of politicians would've fecked up similarly? I'm not at all surprised that they've handled this so badly but I've no idea whether that's just because I've been born into a few generations of shit politicians.
 
What's the story with the clock on the streams?
 
Buster15 said:
OK. Both sides can either sit there staring at each other or try something different.
The EU has continued to as the UK for what it wants and not what it doesn't want.
At least this attempts to get to that position.
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That's the thing, that's not different.
 
Brwned said:
Are these folks especially incompetent or have they just been forced to deal with an especially difficult political issue that previous generations of politicians would've fecked up similarly? I'm not at all surprised that they've handled this so badly but I've no idea whether that's just because I've been born into a few generations of shit politicians.
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No. I think that the whole issue is almost a perfect storm for division and difficulty.
Leaving the EU was always going to be mega difficult and almost uniquely divisive.

It has been handed appallingly badly but apart from Mrs Thatcher l cannot think of an era when it would not have been similarly catastrophic.
 
Brwned said:
Are these folks especially incompetent or have they just been forced to deal with an especially difficult political issue that previous generations of politicians would've fecked up similarly? I'm not at all surprised that they've handled this so badly but I've no idea whether that's just because I've been born into a few generations of shit politicians.
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That’s a good question. No idea what the answer is.
 
Buster15 said:
No. I think that the whole issue is almost a perfect storm for division and difficulty.
Leaving the EU was always going to be mega difficult and almost uniquely divisive.

It has been handed appallingly badly but apart from Mrs Thatcher l cannot think of an era when it would not have been similarly catastrophic.
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The tomfoolery started before the referendum, mind you. Cameron’s decision to have the referendum in the first place, to appease a bunch of cnuts like UKIP, was a historically stupid decision.
 
711 said:
Right. I've a lot of time for Clarke though, pity he's pretty past it, he might have turned the referendum in the first place.
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Oh he tried very hard to make people see sense. However too many people thought he was just an old fuddy duddy who was stuck in the past.
 
Brwned said:
Are these folks especially incompetent or have they just been forced to deal with an especially difficult political issue that previous generations of politicians would've fecked up similarly? I'm not at all surprised that they've handled this so badly but I've no idea whether that's just because I've been born into a few generations of shit politicians.
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The negotiations should have all been handled by the senior civil servants, who are a constant presence and are extremely skilled. It's now turned into a party political issue, which shouldn't have happened.
 
Buster15 said:
So when was this last done as part of the Brexit process.
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The options are the same discussed by the government with the EU, all of them have an obvious problem, they don't fix the border issue. This isn't different it's just an attempt to delay and muddle things a little bit more.
 
711 said:
For Clarke's amendment to be a compromise then Leavers would have to see some advantage in it, and I can't see that they would, I think it will get zero support from Leavers. I accept it might be a next best for Remainers, but that's not a compromise. If you are right however, and I am wrong, it will get some support from Leavers. We'll see :)
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From parliament or the public? I agree with regard to parlaiment but the leave voting public may be satisfied.

Maybe I'm just thinking if we're unhappy they should be too :lol:
 
TheGame said:
God help us if this charlatan becomes Prime Minister! What a joke, let’s hope this is prevented!

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The moment May agrees to step down (thereby offering him a potential route to the job he craves) he miraculously decides he can suddenly support her deal.

What a surprise.
 
Penna said:
The negotiations should have all been handled by the senior civil servants, who are a constant presence and are extremely skilled. It's now turned into a party political issue, which shouldn't have happened.
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Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Did the civil service have more influence in the past?
 
Penna said:
The negotiations should have all been handled by the senior civil servants, who are a constant presence and are extremely skilled. It's now turned into a party political issue, which shouldn't have happened.
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They were but they negotiate according to what they are told to negotiate. They can't decide the policy.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
What a clown. Confirms that this last 3-6months has all been a big charade. Im sure the Honda workers will be so glad he stuck to his guns lon enough for then to lose their jobs.
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He doesn't give a fxxk for the Honda workers or any other for that matter.
As I previously mentioned he has been busy keeping his head down hoping nothing can stick on him.
It is all about posturing I am afraid.
 
WA is not going to get the required amount of votes with DUP bankrolled by dirty money and hard line Brexiteers within tory party, not a chance.
 
Brwned said:
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Did the civil service have more influence in the past?
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The civil service has always been responsible for actually doing the administrative work of the Government of the day, but of course, the senior civil servants carry the organisational memory. Politicians aren't permanent, senior civil servants are there for a very long time. I don't think their influence has waned, they basically run everything - but in the background. They are highly-skilled negotiators.

Ministers come and go - say someone is appointed to agriculture and fisheries and has no idea about those subjects. The Permanent Secretary of each department actually guides the politician and briefs them on a daily basis. Permanent Secretaries report directly to Parliament and the person above them (the Head of the Civil Service) is Secretary to the Cabinet - he knows exactly what's going on at the highest level.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
They were but they negotiate according to what they are told to negotiate. They can't decide the policy.
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Just to add to my post above - May did too much of the negotiation herself, IMO. The policy was "leave the EU". How that happened was open to negotiation, of course.
 
Rajma said:
WA is not going to get the required amount of votes with DUP bankrolled by dirty money and hard line Brexiteers within tory party, not a chance.
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I've not ruled it out at all personally. May's aim has always been to leave MPs, including Labour, with a last-minute choice of her deal or no deal. The EU agreeing a short extension scuppered that for a bit, but it hasn't completely gone away yet.
 
Penna said:
The civil service has always been responsible for actually doing the administrative work of the Government of the day, but of course, the senior civil servants carry the organisational memory. Politicians aren't permanent, senior civil servants are there for a very long time. I don't think their influence has waned, they basically run everything - but in the background. They are highly-skilled negotiators.

Ministers come and go - say someone is appointed to agriculture and fisheries and has no idea about those subjects. The Permanent Secretary of each department actually guides the politician and briefs them on a daily basis. Permanent Secretaries report directly to Parliament and the person above them (the Head of the Civil Service) is Secretary to the Cabinet - he knows exactly what's going on at the highest level.
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Sounds like a new series of The Thick of It. :lol:
 
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