Slept off before the results came in. We are a disgrace. The arguments against a second vote are dying everyday and I'm not even completely sure it's the way to go.
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Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The reality is that the first referendum was so badly setup it hardly represented democracy.
1) Because no one was clear on what leave meant. The leave campaign said it would be the easiest deal ever, no downsides. That isn't true.
2) Because in order for changes to be made there should have been a requirement of CLEAR majority. At least 60%. 52% vs 48% is too close to make significant changes especially when point (1) is taken into account.
Ultimately the referendum was badly conceived by Cameron and his party, with no real plans for leaving made, or shared with the public to enable an informed vote. If people think that is democracy the we really are screwed.
And basically was not binding what made a lot of people NOT CARE
What a total mess. Structurally, we’ve come to the limits of what our Parliamentary setup can handle. Worse, this might not even end with Brexit. If this realignment of voting patterns sticks around after Brexit it could be years before either party is able to get a clear majority again. Our system simply isn’t designed for that. We’ll face deadlock on countless major issues.
I’m up for radical reform of the whole thing. But that’s not in the interest of the two big parties who will do what they can to maintain the current system, which maximises their chances of success. They’ll just keep pointing fingers at the other lot.
I’m up for radical reform of the whole thing. But that’s not in the interest of the two big parties who will do what they can to maintain the current system, which maximises their chances of success. They’ll just keep pointing fingers at the other lot.
Like talking to a brick wall.
This! I think it was wrong that parties tried to whip the votes for the alternatives, clearly it was never going to give us any kind of result on that basis, this is an issue that has broken standard party politics. A GE with proportional representation voting is the only way I can see to bring any kind of belief back to parliament and stop hung/minority govts that could plague us for years
What a clusterfeck.
A thousand days later and its come to this. Nowhere!
A thousand days later and its come to this. Nowhere!
I hate the way Bercow says ”orderrrrrrrr” so grating
He's enjoying this. It's his swansong, he's making the most of it.
Can that fecker Mogg not make his own mind up? Now he says he will vote whatever way the DUP do or he will back the deal if they abstain.
He either believes it is a good/bad deal or he doesnt.
What an absolute parasite.
He either believes it is a good/bad deal or he doesnt.
What an absolute parasite.
"Let's remind ourselves on what we have decided to do". "Nothing"!!!. That sums up this shower.
I've had enough now. Cancel Brexit and have another referendum in 10 years time if you want.
People still seem to be bemused and angry but yesterday's votes were a success. They show a clear route forward.
You have to remember that MPs were voting to whittle down the options so the likes of the SNP or TIG didn't vote custom union because they didn't want it as an option for Monday if avoided. The same will be true of some who didn't vote confirmatory vote. The 'aye' and 'nay' format was just that parliamentary voting format.
If we don't have a majority on Monday then we're fecked but last night results shouldn't cause panic.
You have to remember that MPs were voting to whittle down the options so the likes of the SNP or TIG didn't vote custom union because they didn't want it as an option for Monday if avoided. The same will be true of some who didn't vote confirmatory vote. The 'aye' and 'nay' format was just that parliamentary voting format.
If we don't have a majority on Monday then we're fecked but last night results shouldn't cause panic.
I hope the EU won't extend past April. Us Europeans shouldn't be dragged in this UK made farce any longer
ERG would throw a hissy fit and we would be back to square one.
I'm European too!
It wouldn't matter what the ERG/DUP did if a decent amount of Labour were on board.
Never heard of Peter Frankopan before but he's very insightful on the subject here
Er.....the Republic of Ireland is a part of the EU.
Can you please leave now so we can get on with it?
No one is contemplating kicking Ireland out and I hope we financially help Ireland in any way.
I'm talking about the border between the north and the south ?
That's great and all but helping us out financially won't solve anything to do with the border and the slight problem of its history.
We aren't the ones who voted for a change in the agreement already in place. Surely we can't keep carrying the Brits until they make their minds up or drag us into the chaos they are already in
If Ireland wants that then they might consider leaving the EU as well and keep haggling with them forever
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Is tomorrow's deadline getting extended?
I think it's already been extended
It was extended last night before the indicative votes.
Say what you like about the DUP, and many people have 
, but at least they have stuck to a position rather than flip flopping around every day, for political gain. Not many seem to agree with their principles, but at least they have some.
, but at least they have stuck to a position rather than flip flopping around every day, for political gain. Not many seem to agree with their principles, but at least they have some.What about the passing of the controversial Industrial Relations Act 1971.?
I went on the 'kill the bill march' but just like the one at weekend, it did no good 'Black Jack' Donaldson QC was appointed.
The 'will of the people' has never been carried out in the UK and won't be this time... if it is it will be the first time!
Well I was obviously wrong to have hoped that the indicative vote process might get to a solution. To say that I am angry as well as disappointed is an understatement.
To be fair you have always said that there is no solution save for either revocation of A50 or leaving with no deal which isn't a solution.
I have also been against a second referendum and still am.
Our only real option is for MP'S to vote for the WA and then attempt to mitigate the Backstop issue during the future relationship negotiations.
If this carries on I think I will become a monk.
True, IMO from the moment that A50 was accepted, there was only two options Revoke A50 and remain, or Leave with no deal, both are solutions, neither preferable to large swathes of the population, but in a binary situation its inevitable as the MPs have just proved.
No quite old enough to.remember that one well. I was 10 when we had the 3 day week which I.do remember well.
You're still just a kid then
wet behind the ears!Wait until you can relate all this nonsense to your grandchildren, "I was there" will have a whole new meaning... eyes back on Westminster now for next instalment of "Magic roundabout"
We aren't talking about how to parent a spoiled child - insert Westminster joke here -. Anyone with a tiny bit of history knows a border between the south and north of Ireland would be incredibly dangerous and would lead to violence. Just because Brexit is stupid doesn't mean you should force a border on one of your member states.
Nah.
Dont give up, maybe by Monday some consensus will form. Listening to the Brexitcast it sounds like the Indicative votes were always expected to be a process not a one shot kill (so to speak).
Its the hope that hurts the most!
The UK decided to leave the EU not viceversa. It tried to negotiate a deal which respected the UK multiple red lines and the GFA to no avail. At one point (and pretty soon) this problem must be solved as we can't allow the continent to be dragged by this problem forever. Now either the UK cancels Brexit or it accepts the WA or it goes to a no deal Brexit. It only takes 1 EU country to vote against yet another extension and patience is running thin.
You've just described what is happening, not why you think its a good idea.
Your original post
I don't think it's a good idea to keep dragging this problem forever. It's unfair on an entire continent that deserves to move on rather then keep being linked to the hip with an unreliable partner who secretly wants the EU to collapse
I also believe that once reality start biting the spirit of Dunkirk will kick in and the UK will be rowing back to safety (in the EU) Which means a no deal Brexit will be short lived
There again I respect Irelands decision to leave the EU if it feels that the GFA is more important then EU membership
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If they have any sense, they will coalesce around a customs union (possibly with a confirmatory referendum).
Do they actually have any sense, though?