The Saudi Takeover Rumor Thread

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UncleBob said:
I'm laughing because you're trying to separate two things that are related.

For me this is very simple, I obviously want the club to be successful, but if I have to choose between no success and success as a result of unlimited resources because the club has become a PR campaign for one of the worst regimes in the world, then no success it is.

I think back at the days when Murdoch failed with his takeover attempts, the consequences it would have for English football and United, and the amount of United supporters who protested against the takeover even though it probably would've resulted in more trophies. Then I think of Manchester City and Thaksin, how the supporters were happy to ignore his crimes, simply because he was going to finance players so they could win trophies. Interesting difference.

Bit surprised that it's taken such a short time for United supporters to go down the same path, willing to accept the club as nothing more than a PR campaign, a shiny new toy, for one of the worst regimes in the world. First of all, where's the fun of being in a situation where you can just spend money without consequence in order to win, it takes away half the point. City are there by pure coincidence, not because they laid the foundation and built on it, slightly different paths and it could've been Everton instead, it's meaningless.

As a PLC, prior to the takeover, it's not like the priority was success over money. It was always a balance between investment and churning out profits, taking advantage of every opportunity to cash in. If a player became available that Fergie wanted, it would have to be approved by the board as a special circumstance and it would come out of next years transfer budget. Fergie loathed it, according to him it was easier working under the Glazers.

In terms of investment under the current ownership. Since Fergie retired we've spent £670mill on transfer fees, not to mention the free transfers of Sanchez and Zlatan, and we now have one of the highest wage bills in Europe, it should be clear to everyone that we've invested heavily in players.

The issue is sure as hell not lack of investment, it's not the state of the training facilities and it's not the state of Old Trafford.

There's no reason whatsoever why we couldn't have invested close to £700mill in 5 years on better players, it's not like the structure of the club prevented it. The structure, albeit with different people, is the same as it was under Fergie. The manager identifies the players and the club tries to sign them. Wrong manager was picked, wrong players were identified and signed.

Our aim, seemingly verified by Ole, is now to change the structure and bring in a sporting director which will ensure that the club will sign players that suit an overall plan, then hire managers based on that, Mourinho was against it.

This whole "We can't challenge unless we get unlimited funds from Saudis" agenda is absurd, people thought we couldn't challenge Chelsea either when they were given unlimited funds from Abramovich.

Why not just support City instead ?
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Best post I’ve read in a long time.
 
Cassidy said:
Your opinion. In mine it is.
Many of the institutions we depend upon are complicit in these atrocities and turn a blind of because of money. Including our own governments.

Saying that though I dont condone it and would rather we didnt follow suit.
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I for example find British and american posters "hypocrites" when they say we dont want to watch football of a club owned by a criminal regime.
Yet they pay taxes with their own money to their governments to start wars to kill innocent people around the world. Morals goes both ways, you just can't be selective.
 
Giggsyking said:
I for example find British and american posters "hypocrites" when they say we dont want to watch football of a club owned by a criminal regime.
Yet they pay taxes with their own money to their governments to start wars to kill innocent people around the world. Morals goes both ways, you just can't be selective.
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To be fair we don't have a choice on whether we pay taxes.

But to compare the UK to the Saudis is ludicrous. The UK isn't lily White but its not among the worst.

Tell me the countries that hasn't done something wrong ?
 
Giggsyking said:
I for example find British and american posters "hypocrites" when they say we dont want to watch football of a club owned by a criminal regime.
Yet they pay taxes with their own money to their governments to start wars to kill innocent people around the world. Morals goes both ways, you just can't be selective.
Click to expand...


Damn right.
Yakuza_devils said:
This is what western media make you believe. Travel the world more and see for yourself.

The most brutal government in the world is not Arab or China, go figure. Also, there are many other culture and way of life other than the western values
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Exactly. I mean wtf is with accusations of Chinese death camps that i don't know about. Since this thread has turned into a moral debate, perhaps i would like to know in the history of mankind, how many wars had been initiated by China and Saudi Arabia, in comparison with the British or American govts?
 
Steve Bruce said:
To be fair we don't have a choice on whether we pay taxes.

But to compare the UK to the Saudis is ludicrous. The UK isn't lily White but its not among the worst.

Tell me the countries that hasn't done something wrong ?
Click to expand...
I find no difference between the British Government and the Saudi! If I go about how many lives the British are responsible for the list will be long, longer than the Saudi one, This is a football thread, will not make it a long political post. But yes, you have a choice, if you see yourself paying taxes to criminals, you can always move to another land, I did that.
 
Steve Bruce said:
To be fair we don't have a choice on whether we pay taxes.

But to compare the UK to the Saudis is ludicrous. The UK isn't lily White but its not among the worst.

Tell me the countries that hasn't done something wrong ?
Click to expand...

Being amongst the worst is a matter of perspective
 
“I don’t care if the owners of my football club do secret holocausts as long as we have more money to spend” has GOT to be the worst takes ever on this forum?
 
I want the Glazers gone, maybe Mark Zuckerburg might be interested in “ soccer “
 
Just for the record, as things stand I'd be incredibly concerned about the British Government taking over our club! Just imagine how it'd be run! Ironically though, we'd probably be out of Europe before Halloween.
 
Steve Bruce said:
To be fair we don't have a choice on whether we pay taxes.

But to compare the UK to the Saudis is ludicrous. The UK isn't lily White but its not among the worst.

Tell me the countries that hasn't done something wrong ?
Click to expand...


It's worse internationally.
 
Wumminator said:
“I don’t care if the owners of my football club do secret holocausts as long as we have more money to spend” has GOT to be the worst takes ever on this forum?
Click to expand...

Yup that person has been banned.
 
Giggsyking said:
I for example find British and american posters "hypocrites" when they say we dont want to watch football of a club owned by a criminal regime.
Yet they pay taxes with their own money to their governments to start wars to kill innocent people around the world. Morals goes both ways, you just can't be selective.
Click to expand...


Biggest load of shit ever posted on any forum.
 
SouthPredators4 said:
Damn right.



Exactly. I mean wtf is with accusations of Chinese death camps that i don't know about. Since this thread has turned into a moral debate, perhaps i would like to know in the history of mankind, how many wars had been initiated by China and Saudi Arabia, in comparison with the British or American govts?
Click to expand...

Lack of world travel probably is a reason. Uk govt also has done it’s fair share of manslaughter and what they have done is put the bad past hidden under carpet. I don’t read the uk history of wars or mass murders which they have done (jalian wala bhag ) when it comes to education books or general politics documentation. We are painting a false image of uk for younger generation to be honest, hence the general opinion that only other countries do bad things. And I don’t think this justifies a Saudi takeover, don’t want united to be another oilboss you, doesn’t give the right feelings.
 
UncleBob said:
I'm laughing because you're trying to separate two things that are related.

For me this is very simple, I obviously want the club to be successful, but if I have to choose between no success and success as a result of unlimited resources because the club has become a PR campaign for one of the worst regimes in the world, then no success it is.

I think back at the days when Murdoch failed with his takeover attempts, the consequences it would have for English football and United, and the amount of United supporters who protested against the takeover even though it probably would've resulted in more trophies. Then I think of Manchester City and Thaksin, how the supporters were happy to ignore his crimes, simply because he was going to finance players so they could win trophies. Interesting difference.

Bit surprised that it's taken such a short time for United supporters to go down the same path, willing to accept the club as nothing more than a PR campaign, a shiny new toy, for one of the worst regimes in the world. First of all, where's the fun of being in a situation where you can just spend money without consequence in order to win, it takes away half the point. City are there by pure coincidence, not because they laid the foundation and built on it, slightly different paths and it could've been Everton instead, it's meaningless.

As a PLC, prior to the takeover, it's not like the priority was success over money. It was always a balance between investment and churning out profits, taking advantage of every opportunity to cash in. If a player became available that Fergie wanted, it would have to be approved by the board as a special circumstance and it would come out of next years transfer budget. Fergie loathed it, according to him it was easier working under the Glazers.

In terms of investment under the current ownership. Since Fergie retired we've spent £670mill on transfer fees, not to mention the free transfers of Sanchez and Zlatan, and we now have one of the highest wage bills in Europe, it should be clear to everyone that we've invested heavily in players.

The issue is sure as hell not lack of investment, it's not the state of the training facilities and it's not the state of Old Trafford.

There's no reason whatsoever why we couldn't have invested close to £700mill in 5 years on better players, it's not like the structure of the club prevented it. The structure, albeit with different people, is the same as it was under Fergie. The manager identifies the players and the club tries to sign them. Wrong manager was picked, wrong players were identified and signed.

Our aim, seemingly verified by Ole, is now to change the structure and bring in a sporting director which will ensure that the club will sign players that suit an overall plan, then hire managers based on that, Mourinho was against it.

This whole "We can't challenge unless we get unlimited funds from Saudis" agenda is absurd, people thought we couldn't challenge Chelsea either when they were given unlimited funds from Abramovich.

Why not just support City instead ?
Click to expand...

Outstanding post! Perfect summary of my feelings too. Cannot really fathom how anyone would prefer the Saudis.
 
Wumminator said:
“I don’t care if the owners of my football club do secret holocausts as long as we have more money to spend” has GOT to be the worst takes ever on this forum?
Click to expand...
That was a shocking post, I held back from replying, I think I might well have been banned.

The price of a CL? 3 stonings, half a dozen lashings, a few murders of critics and a carpet bombing of Yemen. Glory Glory Man UTD
 
Giggsyking said:
I find no difference between the British Government and the Saudi! If I go about how many lives the British are responsible for the list will be long, longer than the Saudi one, This is a football thread, will not make it a long political post. But yes, you have a choice, if you see yourself paying taxes to criminals, you can always move to another land, I did that.
Click to expand...

Which country are you from and what year did you leave?
 
Wumminator said:
Obviously.

You are criticizing English and American posters for paying taxes. I think it’s fair to see who you contribute to.
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First I did not criticize them for paying taxes. I said those who say will not watch a football club playing because it is owned by a criminal regime is a hypocritical opinion because you can not be selective.
I come from a land the British invaded not once, but twice. I changed my country because the UK with its allies changed my country to a shit hole, caused the death of people I know, people I love, people have nothing to do with politics but to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I moved to another land, a more peaceful land the last time it was involved in a conflict or war was 200 yrs ago.
 
If this had been on the cards when Fergie was working his magic in the early days of the Glazer ownership then to a man (and woman) , then this would have been condemned by all on here, but we're in desperate times, and that changes opinion, even if it's a dirty thing to admit, but the reality is it'll likely make a bad situation worse long term.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
If this had been on the cards when Fergie was working his magic in the early days of the Glazer ownership then to a man (and woman) , then this would have been condemned by all on here, but we're in desperate times, and that changes opinion, even if it's a dirty thing to admit, but the reality is it'll likely make a bad situation worse long term.
Click to expand...
We are just unlucky we are stuck with the worse owners ever. Just compare our owners to Fenway sports group "Looserpool's owners" they bring success to the clubs they own both in the USA and UK.
 
Giggsyking said:
First I did not criticize them for paying taxes. I said those who say will not watch a football club playing because it is owned by a criminal regime is a hypocritical opinion because you can not be selective.
I come from a land the British invaded not once, but twice. I changed my country because the UK with its allies changed my country to a shit hole, caused the death of people I know, people I love, people have nothing to do with politics but to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I moved to another land, a more peaceful land the last time it was involved in a conflict or war was 200 yrs ago.
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Are you the Riddler?

Where are you from? Not a difficult question. The fact you won't say makes me believe you don't want people to know because you'll look like a hypocrite when said country's misdemeanours are highlighted
 
Giggsyking said:
We are just unlucky we are stuck with the worse owners ever. Just compare our owners to Fenway sports group "Looserpool's owners" they bring success to the clubs they own both in the USA and UK.
Click to expand...

I would just say the Liverpool owners have clearly made far superior decision than ours, they are obviously making good footballing decisions above everything else, whereas with us it's everything else before that.

If they'd just take a look at what everyone else is doing, install that sort of structure, then they could at least give us a chance of been successful, whilst still creaming off millions for themselves, we just seem stuck in a time warp, and I've no idea why they won't change it.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Are you the Riddler?

Where are you from? Not a difficult question. The fact you won't say makes me believe you don't want people to know because you'll look like a hypocrite when said country's misdemeanours are highlighted
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I am sorry you couldn't guess it, it is easy to know I come from Iraq. and believe what ever you want my friend.
 
Giggsyking said:
First I did not criticize them for paying taxes. I said those who say will not watch a football club playing because it is owned by a criminal regime is a hypocritical opinion because you can not be selective.
I come from a land the British invaded not once, but twice. I changed my country because the UK with its allies changed my country to a shit hole, caused the death of people I know, people I love, people have nothing to do with politics but to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I moved to another land, a more peaceful land the last time it was involved in a conflict or war was 200 yrs ago.
Click to expand...

What country did the UK and its allies invade or are you talking in the days of empires?

Western countries in recent times get involved in wars and unfortunately there is casualties. I would be against getting involved in other regions problems but the wider international community feel they should try to intervene. Do we sit back and watch or help try to stop it and then get blamed for causing accidental deaths. We don't drop bombs on Scotland just for fun in the 21st century. There will be a war somewhere with innocent people dying, there is compulsion to stop the war but it does involve more innocent people dying.

What has this got to do with Glazers who are just US business people and Saudi state. If two Saudi business people wanted to buy United, it wouldn't be a problem, same as two US business people.
 
Bestietom said:
It's going to happen, so we either accept it or not.
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How do you know?

I can’t see anyone reputable that has recently mentioned that this is going to happen.

Personally want the Glazers out but nothing anywhere suggests that they are wanting to sell.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I would just say the Liverpool owners have clearly made far superior decision than ours, they are obviously making good footballing decisions above everything else, whereas with us it's everything else before that.

If they'd just take a look at what everyone else is doing, install that sort of structure, then they could at least give us a chance of been successful, whilst still creaming off millions for themselves, we just seem stuck in a time warp, and I've no idea why they won't change it.
Click to expand...
The best thing to happen to a football club with the prestige and the history of Manchester united is to be owned by the fans. It might be unrealistic in the world of football these days. But it should be something near Barcelona type of ownership.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
Our decline started 10 years ago. The summer when we sold Ronaldo to Madrid and Tevez went to City. Rather than reinvest the Ronaldo money on world class talent, that money went on servicing the debt at the time which stood at £700 million. Yes, the Glazer debt. As a result we ended up with Owen, Valencia and Obertan; three players who were nowhere near good enough for the standards of Manchester United.

Fast forward a few years and we started to hear the no value in transfer market line. While City were buying the likes of Aguero, Silva, Tevez, Toure, we were buying Jones, Young, Buttner etc. Average midtable dross. The no value in the transfer market line came directly from the Glazers! We missed out on Hazard at that time because the Glazers weren't willing to pay his agent £5 million at the time!

OT is starting to look dated, yet the Glazers have shown zero interest in investing in the stadium. The reason why OT hasn't been updated is because we are still £500 million in debt. Are we going to borrow £500 million to fund an OT stadium redevelopment when we are half a billion in debt? The answer is clearly no. The Glazer debt is the main barrier to any future OT redevelopment.

The last 6 years are just the consequence of years of under investment from 2005 to 2013. That is down to the Glazers. The Glazers were lucky that they had SAF running the club in the early years, however once he retired they were badly exposed. It is the reason why we are now panic buying players, often paying over the odds in the process.

Ultimately, the Glazers are the root cause of our decline and until they go I can't see how things are going to get better.
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Granted most of our problem was because of the debt. Few errors in your post. The debt and the surge of oil billionaires in football, we change our transfer strategy to buy them young and hope they develop to World Class.

Jones was called the next Duncan Edwards back then, Ferguson felt a sense of responsibility with the takeover and he did his best to stabilize the ship. He was looking for bargains, at the same time to keep winning. The academy way underwhelming, that’s why Fergie himself backdown from Harzard agent fees and why he was willing to let Rooney leave when he wanted bigger contract.
 
Devil77 said:
Outstanding post! Perfect summary of my feelings too. Cannot really fathom how anyone would prefer the Saudis.
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They want instant success, they're bored of United not winning things. Some were telling me Ole should be sacked if he doesn't win the league next season, its mind boggling really.
 
Giggsyking said:
I am sorry you couldn't guess it, it is easy to know I come from Iraq. and believe what ever you want my friend.
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Sad thing is, considering the history of the British Empire, you could have been talking about any one of a number of countries.
But as much as possible, I wish people would keep this football related, or at least lock the thread until actual news of a takeover happens.
 
redshaw said:
What country did the UK and its allies invade or are you talking in the days of empires?

Western countries in recent times get involved in wars and unfortunately there is casualties. I would be against getting involved in other regions problems but the wider international community feel they should try to intervene. Do we sit back and watch or help try to stop it and then get blamed for causing accidental deaths. We don't drop bombs on Scotland just for fun in the 21st century. There will be a war somewhere with innocent people dying, there is compulsion to stop the war but it does involve more innocent people dying.

What has this got to do with Glazers who are just US business people and Saudi state. If two Saudi business people wanted to buy United, it wouldn't be a problem, same as two US business people.
Click to expand...
My friend I never blamed anyone for anything. All what I what I wanted to say that we live in complicated world that everything is connected to everything, somehow sometime you were part of something bad happened somewhere. We live in countries and pay taxes to governments that literally uses the money and cause suffering in other parts of the world yet we are OK with it and continue with our lives, but when it comes to football they choose to make a decision to stop watching united because they will be owned by a murderous regime. For me I will not love it a little bit, but I wont stop watching united.
 
IrishMcD said:
Sad thing is, considering the history of the British Empire, you could have been talking about any one of a number of countries.
But as much as possible, I wish people would keep this football related, or at least lock the thread until actual news of a takeover happens.
Click to expand...

I agree
 
Giggsyking said:
I for example find British and american posters "hypocrites" when they say we dont want to watch football of a club owned by a criminal regime.
Yet they pay taxes with their own money to their governments to start wars to kill innocent people around the world. Morals goes both ways, you just can't be selective.
Click to expand...

But when it comes to taxes we don’t have a choice. If you don’t pay them you go to prison. We also can’t choose what the governments spend that tax money on.
 
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