Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

BusbyMalone said:
Yes, that is a good point and something that i was thinking about earlier when i was mulling the episode over a bit more. There were of course heavy casualties and the human army have been decimated, which could have a huge impact for the rest of the season. Although, i'm not sure how much of an impact it's going to have as i don't trust the writers anymore to make bold decisions. I mean, realistically Cersei should win this fight, right? I'm assuming she has a larger army. She probably should win and remain in power, but that's obviously not going to happen as some of the main characters (Jon, Dany, Jamie etc) have very strong plot armour which was established last season and has continued now.

Maybe they'll surprise me and make some bold moves in the coming episodes. But i'm skeptical.

Its just there was no really emotional gut punch here. This was built up as something truly horrifying and that just never came to pass for me. It started off that way. As i said before, the opening 15/20 minutes were exceptional, but then it become abundantly clear that something truly horrifying just wasn't going to happen. The amount of times the main characters were saved at the last second was ridiculous.
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There will be at least one major shocking/surprising death, i am 100% about that.

Speculation
Probably one (or more) of Dany, Jon, Sansa or Tyrion. Jaime wouldn't even be a shock to me, as i expect him to die somehow related to Cersei (protect her? die for her? Bronn?). Going into the last 3 episodes i think there is no need for any plot armor anymore. And most good series or movies end with a major death. And GoT will prove once again, what made them special - shocking moments. There is no way they will not (try to) bring another one.

I unfortunately believe it will be Jon, this time for good. But personally i hope for an happy end. :D
 
Solius said:
I said this to my gf last night. When I watched season one I saw Ned was about to get beheaded and because there was so much build up I wasn't really worried. Tropes in film and media have conditioned me to expect him to be saved, so when it actually happened I was so shocked. That became a theme for the show with things like the Red Wedding. Once they ran out of book material it turned into a normal action show where the heroes can never die. This basically removes all tension because you know Jon isn't going to die at the hands of 1000 wights. He could literally be in the middle of the entire undead army and I'd feel fine about his chances for survival.
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The thing was we started running out of characters. George RR killed of far too many great characters. It made it so there are only a hand full of characters left that I care about.

Killing off major characters was a great idea at the beginning but if taken too far there would have been no one left to route for. If at the end Cercei and Jack Sparrow keep the Iron Throne with everybody else dead I'll think well meh that's a waste of 10 years.
 
Kazi said:
What is dead may never die
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I am still not convinced that Theon is dead for good. It is highly probable, but we haven't seen him die properly (his eyes were still open) and the spot of his wound was not necessarily deadly.
 
So many pages to read, and I get the feeling a lot will moan at
A. How Arya killed the NK
B. How the WW didn't actually fight the whole episode

I really did want to see a fight between Jon and NK but 1v1, Surely with his powers, the NK would win, so I get that the way to kill him was stealth, something Arya has proved she can do, sneaking up to Jon etc.
And on the WW, they just didn't need to fight really. Keep respawning dead people, so they had no need to get involved

So something I was mulling over this morning.
Jon gets with Dany, a Targaryen
Sansa gets with Tyrian, a Lanister
Arya gets with Gendry, a Baratheon

after winning the war with Cersei, so all the big houses are together and run a more peaceful place
 
Solius said:
To be fair we've had 7 seasons of Arya training to be a silent killer. That is one of the more believable parts of the episode. She knows Winterfell like the back of her hand and could easily have snuck into the Godswood using a different way or just her speed and stealth. Also she used that hand switch technique against Brienne last season.
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And in the first episode of this season Jon asks how she snuck up on him without him hearing her in that very spot.
 
Interval said:
What if Arya was waiting in the tree? They show her walk off from Hound and Mellisandre, when theon was still fighting the wights, iirc. Maybe she snuck up the tree and jumped in from there
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If you watch Theons Death and then Arya killing the NK you'll see what is suggested. It's pretty clear they want you to think that Arya sprinted past the White Walkers (close to where Theon died) and ran towards the NK and Bran. She then jumped hoping her momentum would ensure the kill. Just after Arya stabs him, if you pause it you get to see a zoomed out view of the scene and you'll see where the White Walkers that Arya zooms past is in relation to the NK.
 
Oldyella said:
And in the first episode of this season Jon asks how she snuck up on him without him hearing her in that very spot.
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Which would be completely fair if:

1. There wasn't 6+ White Walkers in the area around the NK.
2. There wasn't a huge wall of undead blocking Arya from getting in.

If the NK was alone, then sure that would make perfect sense. But he wasn't.
 
Mr.Ridiculous__ said:
But this was an incredible decimation of some of the best fighters in the Universe. The Dothraki, The Unsullied, even the dragons had it hard. The WW just wiped the floor with everyone.
Why is everyone pretending that this was too easy?
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I responded to someone else who made the same point and i do agree. It was actually something i was thinking of earlier when mulling over the episode. Of course there were huge casualties which could have a big impact on the remaining episodes (although i'm skeptical on that), but it was more how the Night King himself went out really. He didn't even take out someone like a Jon or Dany which would've made complete sense considering he had many, many opportunities to do so. And i don't mean killing one of those just for the sake of it, but it would make sense. Jon literally charged at him, Dany tried to smoke him only for him to laugh in her face. It made no sense why he didn't just take one of them out there and then when he had the opportunity.

If he took out Dany and her dragon, then Arya done what she done it would be way more impactful. The bittersweet moment that this show was all about. Killing all of those soldiers is one thing, but i have no emotional attachment to those faceless people. Taking out one of the main characters on the other hand would be a huge blow and would prove that the show isn't fecking about. This battle was supposed to be THE battle. Yet all our main protagonists walked way with a few scratches.

Anyway, theres' still time for surprises. We have three episodes left yet and they may have a few gut punches left in them.
 
OutlawGER said:
I am still not convinced that Theon is dead for good. It is highly probable, but we haven't seen him die properly (his eyes were still open) and the spot of his wound was not necessarily deadly.
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His arc is done, was never going to get a happy ending. It was a fitting end and Alfie Allen was brilliant last night. The best way he could possibly have went.
 
OutlawGER said:
There will be at least one major shocking/surprising death, i am 100% about that.

Speculation
Probably one (or more) of Dany, Jon, Sansa or Tyrion. Jaime wouldn't even be a shock to me, as i expect him to die somehow related to Cersei (protect her? die for her? Bronn?). Going into the last 3 episodes i think there is no need for any plot armor anymore. And most good series or movies end with a major death. And GoT will prove once again, what made them special - shocking moments. There is no way they will not (try to) bring another one.

I unfortunately believe it will be Jon, this time for good. But personally i hope for an happy end. :D
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You could very well be right. I just said to someone else now, that there's 3 episodes left and there's plenty of time for surprises. Maybe they'll shut me up by springing one next week. Fingers crossed! I'm a bit of a nihilist personally!
 
RedSky said:
If you watch Theons Death and then Arya killing the NK you'll see what is suggested. It's pretty clear they want you to think that Arya sprinted past the White Walkers (close to where Theon died) and ran towards the NK and Bran. She then jumped hoping her momentum would ensure the kill. Just after Arya stabs him, if you pause it you get to see a zoomed out view of the scene and you'll see where the White Walkers that Arya zooms past is in relation to the NK.
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Then its just as silly as it sounds. Aah well. Was good drama
 
RedSky said:
Which would be completely fair if:

1. There wasn't 6+ White Walkers in the area around the NK.
2. There wasn't a huge wall of undead blocking Arya from getting in.

If the NK was alone, then sure that would make perfect sense. But he wasn't.
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I think she basically just sprinted past them before they could react or even see she was there. All one of the WW felt was a gust of wind.
 
BusbyMalone said:
I responded to someone else who made the same point and i do agree. It was actually something i was thinking of earlier when mulling over the episode. Of course there were huge casualties which could have a big impact on the remaining episodes (although i'm skeptical on that), but it was more how the Night King himself went out really. He didn't even take out someone like a Jon or Dany which would've made complete sense considering he had many, many opportunities to do so. And i don't mean killing one of those just for the sake of it, but it would make sense. Jon literally charged at him, Dany tried to smoke him only for him to laugh in her face. It made no sense why he didn't just take one of them out there and then when he had the opportunity.

If he took out Dany and her dragon, then Arya done what she done it would be way more impactful. The bittersweet moment that this show was all about. Killing all of those soldiers is one thing, but i have no emotional attachment to those faceless people. Taking out one of the main characters on the other hand would be a huge blow and would prove that the show isn't fecking about. This battle was supposed to be THE battle. Yet all our main protagonists walked way with a few scratches.

Anyway, theres' still time for surprises. We have three episodes left yet and they may have a few gut punches left in them.
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That's the key to it really. We can watch Unsullied and Dothraki die but for the most part we don't care because most of them are unnamed characters in a battle that doesn't really look that realistic. And irrespective of how good they're supposed to be, I'm still going to struggle to take the WW's army seriously when ten wights can't even kill fecking Samwell Tarly.:lol:
 
Interval said:
Then its just as silly as it sounds. Aah well. Was good drama
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Dunno, could be plausable, she was trained by Faceless Men, with supernatural stealth and speed abilities etc, she didn't just sprint through like a regular person.
 
I don't know why people are trying to defend the ridiculousness of it, you can still enjoy it. I love LotR and most of the battles get really silly at points. In fact I was getting Helms Deep vibes all episode watching Jamie, Brienne etc.. fight off endless hordes, if you had 50 of them you'd probably be able to take on any army in the world :lol:

The way the Dothraki rode into darkness just to get completely slaughtered was great, that really built up the horror of the situation. I think most of the battle was pretty well done actually, it just got a bit too cheesy at times with the hollywood saves and hero send offs. Also I felt the momentum of the undead army felt too inconsistent. One moment they are swarming through everyone as if there isn't an inch to spare and then other moments it felt like they had slowed down considerably to give us room to see people fight. I dunno it's hard to describe, it just felt a bit off.

Also wayyyyyy too much plot armor for our main guys but at this point GoT isn't really GoT anymore, it would have been much more brutal to see Grey Worm, Brienne just cop it immediately. Watching Jorah being the only one come back from the Dothraki charge was just... come on! I think I counted about 10+ times where a main character was put in one of those "Oh man he is fecked now" scenarios just to be saved. To me, that's really lazy writing.

Arya killing the NK is fine, but the execution wasn't exactly the best.

But you know, it was still fun. To me the TV series is a condensed lite version of the books, just a shame the books won't ever be finished to give us the real GoT.
 
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The first half of that episode felt like I was watching a pirate VHS that had been taped over 600 times. The picture quality was fecking horrible and way way too dark, with weird whispy effects and excessively fast cuts in the battle scenes like Jason Bourne editing on steroids but with the lights off.

Once that bit was over it improved quite a lot, pretty much from around the point where Arya was recreating the Raptors in the kitchen scene from Jurassic Park.

I have no problem with Arya being the one to kill the Night King, but it was too easy.

Pretty much all characters of importance survived too. Should have been way more deaths.
 
It's really amazing how many people watch this show. People I never would have expected to watch GoT were all talking about it at work today.
 
padr81 said:
His arc is done, was never going to get a happy ending. It was a fitting end and Alfie Allen was brilliant last night. The best way he could possibly have went.
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Even Aryas arc is now pretty much done. She is 'the Nightkingslayer' now and not even a virgin anymore! But still i think (and hope) that she won't die.

But sure, Theons dead makes sense, is logical and highly probable.
 
Epic episode, well done to them for pulling that off.

The writing is still terribly cheesy tv, and the NK and most everyone else who went down didn't really get payoff (bar Theon) and there should have at least been some WW fights (I mean why not at least have friendzone and theon take one on??? It makes no sense to sit them out), but I was glad (and called it with Mel) that Mel and Arya ended up being the heroes. I actually thought the Arya bit was well done, just the NK should have done more badassery.

But feck me, they went with the crypt idea. And I thought we were all joking about that :lol:
 
So the Night King with his undead army and own dragon couldn't take out the dragons and the resy but the Golden Company and Qyburn are supposed to represent the BIGGEST threat? Come on

All the main fantasy elements seem to be done with, lot of unsatisfactory closure there IMO. The rational theories ultimately surpassed the actual results and people are right to be disappointed.

Great action scenes, per usual, with well-done tension and fear built in. But think they missed the mark with so few meaningful deaths and a too simplistic end for what was supposed to be an unstoppable force of nature.
 
DouLou said:
I don't know why people are trying to defend the ridiculousness of it, you can still enjoy it. I love LotR and most of the battles get really silly at points. In fact I was getting Helms Deep vibes all episode watching Jamie, Brienne etc.. fight off endless hordes, if you had 50 of them you'd probably be able to take on any army in the world :lol:

The way the Dothraki rode into darkness just to get completely slaughtered was great, that really built up the horror of the situation. I think most of the battle was pretty well done actually, it just got a bit too cheesy at times with the hollywood saves and hero send offs. Also I felt the momentum of the undead army felt too inconsistent. One moment they are swarming through everyone as if there isn't an inch to spare and then other moments it felt like they had slowed down considerably to give us room to see people fight. I dunno it's hard to describe, it just felt a bit off.

Also wayyyyyy too much plot armor for our main guys but at this point GoT isn't really GoT anymore, it would have been much more brutal to see Grey Worm, Brienne just cop it immediately. Watching Jorah being the only one come back from the Dothraki charge was just... come on! I think I counted about 10+ times where a main character was put in one of those "Oh man he is fecked now" scenarios just to be saved. To me, that's really lazy writing.

Arya killing the NK is fine, but the execution wasn't exactly the best.

But you know, it was still fun. To me the TV series is a condensed lite version of the books, just a shame the books won't ever be finished to give us the real GoT.
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Pretty much sums it up.

Though the Jon roar at the dragon was pretty funny. Shame we didn't get to see him actually survive Dragon fire rather than just dodge it.
 
OutlawGER said:
Even Aryas arc is now pretty much done. She is 'the Nightkingslayer' now and not even a virgin anymore! But still i think (and hope) that she won't die.

But sure, Theons dead makes sense, is logical and highly probable.
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Arya can't die because she's got serious plot armor, I have no clue what they do with her now. I actually thought she was gonna die last night while she killed the NK, like he was going to snap her neck as she stabbed him. I hope she doesn't get a happy ever after with Gendry or whatever, it doesn't fit her story imo.
 
shabadu84 said:
So the Night King with his undead army and own dragon couldn't take out the dragons and the resy but the Golden Company and Qyburn are supposed to represent the BIGGEST threat? Come on
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Cersie must have something planned for the dragons by now. She is always one step ahead of the game.
 
Everyone is gonna be mad pissed at Cersei for sitting this one out.
 
The kinda brutal thing about this battle is no-one South will ever believe it ever happened. Everyone will be like "Yeah mate, you killed all those undead? Fought with Dragons? Thousands died? The world was saved? Haha ok buddy".
 
Solius said:
I think she basically just sprinted past them before they could react or even see she was there. All one of the WW felt was a gust of wind.
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Yeah thats my conclusion and I think whats implied. I guess she must be super fast now, add that to her CV. :p

Cheesy said:
That's the key to it really. We can watch Unsullied and Dothraki die but for the most part we don't care because most of them are unnamed characters in a battle that doesn't really look that realistic. And irrespective of how good they're supposed to be, I'm still going to struggle to take the WW's army seriously when ten wights can't even kill fecking Samwell Tarly.:lol:
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Indeed. The fact Samwell Tarly survives that is probably the thing that pisses me off the most. He can barely swing a sword for fecks sake. Lets hope its a bittersweet survival with Gilly and Baby Sam dying in the crypt (highly unlikely). They really should have had everyone get slaughtered in the crypts, that would have at least given some emotional impact to the episode.
 
Cheesy said:
That's the key to it really. We can watch Unsullied and Dothraki die but for the most part we don't care because most of them are unnamed characters in a battle that doesn't really look that realistic. And irrespective of how good they're supposed to be, I'm still going to struggle to take the WW's army seriously when ten wights can't even kill fecking Samwell Tarly.:lol:
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:lol:

Feck Samwell Tarly. Seriously. He's a fecking hindrance. I lost count how many times he was in danger and someone saved him. Why/how he's still alive i have no idea!
 
RedSky said:
Yeah thats my conclusion and I think whats implied. I guess she must be super fast now, add that to her CV. :p



Indeed. The fact Samwell Tarly survives that is probably the thing that pisses me off the most. He can barely swing a sword for fecks sake. Lets hope its a bittersweet survival with Gilly and Baby Sam dying in the crypt (highly unlikely). They really should have had everyone get slaughtered in the crypts, that would have at least given some emotional impact to the episode.
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Gilly and baby Sam were stood there in the crypt at the end with Varys et al, they survived.
 
NK kills Theon immediately, but picks up Arya and stares at her long enough to be killed. Trope.

Giant Wight kills everything in sight immediately but picks up little Mormont and stares at her long enough to be killed. Trope.

Episode was very entertaining tv but there’s not a single person in this thread that can tell me that the above is good writing. It was Trope City.
 
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