Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Shamana said:
I find Varys plotting against Dany a bit weak. He gave Dany his word that he would serve her after supported Robert in trying to assainate her, and now yet again he's plotting against someone he's sworn to serve.
Click to expand...
He gave his word to many people. His only loyalty is to the realm, as he said.

Shamana said:
I don't understand how Tyrion and Varys can be convinced that Jon would make such a great ruler of westeros. He has a good heart, but is dumb as feck. Dany was absolutely right, when she wanted Jon to keep his heritage a secret and not tell Sansa and Arya. He should absolutely logically be able to see, that it's the best course of action so far so why is he dying to tell his family. He's been a bastard all his life, then king in the north and later warden of the north if Dany wins. Or they could do the completely logical thing and just marry. I don't see why he is so desperate to tell anyone that he is targ.
Click to expand...
Obviously he is desperate to say it — being King of the North doesn't make him a Stark, this does, and it's something that he had been craving for all his life. But I agree with your first point. The whole plot of Dany's first 5 seasons or so was about her becoming a queen instead of a good-hearted girl, making hard decisions etc. Jon hardly ever ruled, his whole "rule" was dedicated to one project — introducing wildlings to the world. He'd be more ruthless (and... bad in their eyes) if he had faced the same obstacles.
 
Redlambs said:
This is why we have to accept it's a brain dead tv show.

That being said, it's a bit bizarre people moaning at the moaning, as it's fair for people to have opinions and even laugh at some of the more stupid moments at least. Like that scene, it did look good and set Dany's heel turn up nicely, but it was still incredibly stupid.
Click to expand...

Bah Gawd!!!

The thing with Dany, though, is that she's suffered loss with Jorah and is acting very emotional. It's one thing to tease the impending meltdown of her character, but there's sympathy too for her character because we're aware she's in a fragile emotional state. Sansa likewise has suffered loss with Theon, however, the difference in how Dany treats Sansa and viceversa is interesting. The undermining of Dany, even prior to knowing Jon is a rightful heir, is a flaw in Sansa's character, and her lack of discretion in keeping Jon's secret just adds to that impression of Sansa as being a hypocrite.
 
Redlambs said:
Oh shhhhhh! Stop picking on the show! You have to turn your brain off and just like shiney stuff, then you are good to go!
Click to expand...

There are probably more posts of you saying that now sarcastically rather than people actually saying it now.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Is there any logical reason why Cersei's character wouldn't :-

1. Immediately slay her greatest threat to the throne, who happens to be but 100m away and supported by only a handful of unsullied.
2. Utilise the many Scorpions to kill Drogon, who sits idly at a much shorter distance than when Euron killed the other one?

Good writing is the consistency of a character being true to who they are at all times and occasions. In any other circumstance such as this, with such an overwhelming advantage over the enemy, Cersei wouldn't think twice, but due to the incredibly poor pacing of this season, she must act uncharacteristically so that two more episodes must elapse before resolution.
Click to expand...

They like cool moments and stand-offs and such so basically throw logic out the window to get them.
 
Sanche7 said:
Never ever in the history of Cinema or TV will such a scene occur. You build up to a finale over a period of 8 years with Dany going through hell and worse to reach KL just to be ambushed and killed in 10 mins by some long range projectile weapon? Yeah it would be logical alright but that would be the lamest ending possible. There would be zero payoff for the fans who have followed her journey for all these years. This thing is made for entertainment not for logic. If people want logic, they should probably watch Discovery or Nat Geo. I'm not saying anything goes but expecting everything to be completely logical is bonkers
Click to expand...

well indeed, that's not really what i was getting at though. It's not about expecting complete logic but you can still expect a little consistency from your characters. Dany being there and almost entirely exposed should be an oportunity that's impossible for Cersei to pass up, and i'd argue the writers formulating a way of somehow getting Dany away safely or even killing her off to inspire Jon would've been better than seeing the most ruthless queen turning down the oportunity to all but win the war for absolutlely no reason what so ever. Cersei had absolutely everything to gain and zero to lose.

It all just comes back to poor writing again, Dany shouldn't have been there at all and would never really have put herself in such a vulnerable situation, there's no way on earth she's trusting cersei (who at least had the sense to stay behind her walls surrounded by an army) The only reason she was put in that scene was to show Emelias god awful attempts at acting sad and angry at missandeis death.
 
Cheesy said:
They like cool moments and stand-offs and such so basically throw logic out the window to get them.
Click to expand...

There's a great scene in Birdman : Or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance where the movie turns from a very clever and intelligent story into a twenty second scene replete with explosions, shooting, ships, etc, only to quickly return back to the original movie format, and then the lead character breaks the fourth wall and says, "You liked that didn't you?"

Essentially a critique that people will more likely defend a visual experience that is impressive, although shallow, over something of substance.
 
This sworn to secrecy bullshit was getting tiresome fast, so I'm glad we saw Sansa break it in a matter of minutes. Shes not some Jon Snow who will forever protect secrets for the sake of them.
 
macheda14 said:
‘The Dragon was killed too easily by those scorpion/giant crossbows’

There was a whole bunch of scenes last season with them manufacturing these weapons to take down dragons. What, were they supposed to not work?

Regarding dany not then going on to flank the ships, she just saw one of her dragons die, goes to attack, realises it’s too dangerous and then abandons her army. Shows yet another flaw in her as a ruler/leader. She did the same thing to Jon in the last episode only to return when the Night King was no longer a threat to her ‘child’. She, like Cersei, has a vengeful attitude to those that kill her ‘children’
Click to expand...

Wouldn't everyone?
 
I've never been one of those people who says if you dont like it, dont watch it but my god I'm convinced some of you watch this with the lights on and a note pad so that you can write down any minor inconsistency and then complain about it in this thread. The dedicated to do that at 2 am is incredible.
 
This episode was fine but ultimately reminded me why the story (not just the tv show) is just not all that interesting. If I don't have anyone to cheer for at the end game (bar Ayra stabbing every cnut in King's Landing), I don't care. Jon and Dany are boring unlikable characters (who also have zero chemistry by the way). Fcuking pet your wolf Jon you incompetent manlet!

I can't look past Martin I'm afraid when it comes to this crap. I'm not bothered by inconsistency or minor detail issues - it's the broad strokes of the story that suck and that comes from him.
 
Eboue said:
I've never been one of those people who says if you dont like it, dont watch it but my god I'm convinced some of you watch this with the lights on and a note pad so that you can write down any minor inconsistency and then complain about it in this thread. The dedicated to do that at 2 am is incredible.
Click to expand...

I think what you're failing to appreciate is that we're 8 seasons into a show that began very differently with a very different style. It's gotten more mainstream and summer blockbuster as the budget has got bigger which has resulted in the writing taking a back seat. Ultimately i'm not going to drop GoT given i've loved most of the episodes, but it's fair game to get annoyed when they turn it into a Marvel show. Spoilers are so rife on the internet these days with social media etc that if you don't want to get spoiled you have to watch it when its live or suffer the consequences.
 
RedSky said:
I think what you're failing to appreciate is that we're 8 seasons into a show that began very differently with a very different style. It's gotten more mainstream and summer blockbuster as the budget has got bigger which has resulted in the writing taking a back seat. Ultimately i'm not going to drop GoT given i've loved most of the episodes, but it's fair game to get annoyed when they turn it into a Marvel show. Spoilers are so rife on the internet these days with social media etc that if you don't want to get spoiled you have to watch it when its live or suffer the consequences.
Click to expand...
Life's too short mate. Do stuff you enjoy.
 
RedSky said:
I think what you're failing to appreciate is that we're 8 seasons into a show that began very differently with a very different style. It's gotten more mainstream and summer blockbuster as the budget has got bigger which has resulted in the writing taking a back seat. Ultimately i'm not going to drop GoT given i've loved most of the episodes, but it's fair game to get annoyed when they turn it into a Marvel show. Spoilers are so rife on the internet these days with social media etc that if you don't want to get spoiled you have to watch it when its live or suffer the consequences.
Click to expand...

It really wasnt all that different. And I dont mind people criticizing it, I have plenty of times. It's just the absolute joylessness that amazes me. I've watched some shows to the bitter end that sucked way worse than this (sons of anarchy) and I just had them on while doing something else and fast forward liberally. I certainly didnt write weekly essays about every little detail.
 
T'was better than last week. Lots of plot holes as usual. Was a little disappointed to see Jaime again return to Cersei (he's definitely getting the chop).

The way its playing out I think Jon, Jaime and Varys are not making the end.
 
RedSky said:
I think what you're failing to appreciate is that we're 8 seasons into a show that began very differently with a very different style. It's gotten more mainstream and summer blockbuster as the budget has got bigger which has resulted in the writing taking a back seat. Ultimately i'm not going to drop GoT given i've loved most of the episodes, but it's fair game to get annoyed when they turn it into a Marvel show. Spoilers are so rife on the internet these days with social media etc that if you don't want to get spoiled you have to watch it when its live or suffer the consequences.
Click to expand...

Serious question (not trying to rile anyone up): do you really think Martin's story isn't headed for the same type of shit? Albeit with a different, long-winded journey to the same points?
 
stevoc said:
Wouldn't everyone?
Click to expand...
Well yeh obviously, but it’s a plot device to draw parallels with Cersei. When her dragon dies she immediately does away with their rational plan of blockading the cit, instead choosing to kill thousands of innocents. Their fight is ceasing to become good v bad, more two rulers who want ultimate power.
 
Love how Dany was high in the sky riding her dragon but failed to notice a fleet of ships. Ok then.

I still love the show but this season has been a huge disappointment so far.
 
If this level of nitpicking and criticism was applied to the earlier seasons it would be like "how did the dothraki cover all this ground in 4 episodes when according to the books the dothraki sea is X miles long and that should take at least 7 episodes?". How did Robert and his entourage arrive at Winterfell in such good shape, why havent we been shown the supply chain that kept them fed along the road?
 
Varys to kill Dany and then lead a people's rebellion. Varys will sit on the iron throne and the Red Lady's prophecy will be fulfilled.
 
RedSky said:
Thats precisely the reason why I loved GoT in the first place, it was intelligent. It was a refreshing change to the superhero genre and shows like Walking Dead. Guess thats why i'm disappointed.
Click to expand...

Yeah mate its so fecking dissapointing, after investing so much time this is what they delivered.
 
Eboue said:
If this level of nitpicking and criticism was applied to the earlier seasons it would be like "how did the dothraki cover all this ground in 4 episodes when according to the books the dothraki sea is X miles long and that should take at least 7 episodes?". How did Robert and his entourage arrive at Winterfell in such good shape, why havent we been shown the supply chain that kept them fed along the road?
Click to expand...
Cersei looked worn out, she’d been riding for a month
 
Shooting spears from a moving ship to a flying dragon. Aim Bot
Euron is such a cartoonish villain its laughable.
 
Minimalist said:
Serious question (not trying to rile anyone up): do you really think Martin's story isn't headed for the same type of shit? Albeit with a different, long-winded journey to the same points?
Click to expand...

Martin is a millionaire now, he'd be swimming in royalties till he dies. I just cant see him writing anymore. This is the only GOT ending we'll get.
 
Suv666 said:
Shooting spears from a moving ship to a flying dragon. Aim Bot
Euron is such a cartoonish villain its laughable.
Click to expand...

When he yelled at his people to build him 10,000 ships it was kind of a cert this was going to happen. I mean, if that wasn't meant to make people laugh I don't know what is.
 
Eboue said:
It really wasnt all that different. And I dont mind people criticizing it, I have plenty of times. It's just the absolute joylessness that amazes me. I've watched some shows to the bitter end that sucked way worse than this (sons of anarchy) and I just had them on while doing something else and fast forward liberally. I certainly didnt write weekly essays about every little detail.
Click to expand...

I think it comes from the mysteries of the show, people like to come up with theories and predict what will happen and get heavily invested. If you watch early GoT (youtube is useful) the writing and dialogue are very different to how it is now. I think it's purely down to how fast the show is running right now, they're teleporting people at great speed to push the story along. I seem to recall when Daenerys finally got her fleet a few seasons back in Winds of Winter people were concerned there was too much too do in too few episodes. Ultimately imo they were proved right.

Minimalist said:
Serious question (not trying to rile anyone up): do you really think Martin's story isn't headed for the same type of shit? Albeit with a different, long-winded journey to the same points?
Click to expand...

I hope it will end completely differently. But who the feck knows anymore. His heart doesn't seem to be in it anyway, he's plugging his other show.
 
Eboue said:
I've never been one of those people who says if you dont like it, dont watch it but my god I'm convinced some of you watch this with the lights on and a note pad so that you can write down any minor inconsistency and then complain about it in this thread. The dedicated to do that at 2 am is incredible.
Click to expand...


And they wouldn't miss it for the world either . The internet has created the worst kind of trolls . People who pretend to hate something just so they can think they are special
 
RedSky said:
I think it comes from the mysteries of the show, people like to come up with theories and predict what will happen and get heavily invested. If you watch early GoT (youtube is useful) the writing and dialogue are very different to how it is now. I think it's purely down to how fast the show is running right now, they're teleporting people at great speed to push the story along. I seem to recall when Daenerys finally got her fleet a few seasons back in Winds of Winter people were concerned there was too much too do in too few episodes. Ultimately imo they were proved right.



I hope it will end completely differently. But who the feck knows anymore. His heart doesn't seem to be in it anyway, he's plugging his other show.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Martin himself has dismissed this. Only difference in the show will be certain characters are not dead yet or not involved at all (LSH, FAegon).

Unless he's lying - and to be fair, he is good at that.
 
How would whoever want to support Jon's claim to the Iron Throne prove that is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna? Just because Sam and Brann says so doesn't mean that they can offer proof and Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna in the official story i'm not sure everyone would suddenly believe otherwise.

Also it's kind of difficult to say that Jon has a claim to the Iron throne now anyway since Roberts rebellion was excatly about knocking the targs of the throne and we also had Renly making a claim simply based on his superior millitary might.
 
Eboue said:
It really wasnt all that different. And I dont mind people criticizing it, I have plenty of times. It's just the absolute joylessness that amazes me. I've watched some shows to the bitter end that sucked way worse than this (sons of anarchy) and I just had them on while doing something else and fast forward liberally. I certainly didnt write weekly essays about every little detail.
Click to expand...
You'll take that back!
 
Personally I'm still hoping that big fcuking red meteor/comet (wasn't it mentioned in season 2?) is going to hit the planet at the end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.