Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Redlambs said:
Again, that's what you want to think. Your problem is you tar everyone with an opinion different to yours with the same brush. I'm not calling them morons, I'm not saying they've completely ruined the show, but what I personally am saying is they've gone for style over substance and as such it's fair for people to question that. Especially with the comment about Dany "forgetting" what she's faced and is likely to come up against.
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You kind of are, if you beleive they decided Dany just forgot about them. You're kind of suggesting they are catastrophically incompetent if this is all they could come up with.

If you look at the context in which it is said, and what preceeded it, it comes across quite different.

“Dany’s other enemies have not just been sitting still—they’ve been planning for the final battle,” Benioff said. “We saw in Season 7 that Qyburn had invented this giant, dragon-killing Scorpion. Qyburn went back to the drawing board and he made even larger, more powerful Scorpions. Dozens of them are now lining the walls of King’s Landing, and dozens more are lining the decks of the Iron Fleet.”

He continued, “While Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet and Euron’s forces, they certainly haven’t forgotten about her.”
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Are you telling me those two paragraphs are completely unrelated?
 
ivaldo said:
You kind of are, if you beleive they decided Dany just forgot about them. You're kind of suggesting they are catastrophically incompetent if this is all they could come up with.

If you look at the context in which it is said, and what preceeded it, it comes across quite different.


Are you telling me those two paragraphs are completely unrelated?
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Again, though, they are saying exactly that. Dany kind of forgot.

Just because the other characters didn't about her, it doesn't change the fact that it's a monumentally stupid idea. That Dany and her entire command simply forgot.

You tend to assume a hell of a lot about what people are thinking, from me to D&D. When the fact is I'm not saying everything they've written is dumb (in fact a few pages back I praised a few things), and they DID say Dany "kind of forgot". Hell, I'm not even the main one having a go at it, nor the bloody scorpions, you are getting wound up and tarring me with the same brush a little here mate.
 
ivaldo said:
Varys has always had the interest of the people at heart; it’s what drives him and is the reason why he originally backs Dany. She’s the daughter of the mad king, with no land or established force in the 7 kingdoms. Melting the capital and it’s inhabitants isn’t the best way to endear herself to her people. Cersei’s own grasp on the throne is tenuous at best, chiefly because she doesn’t have the support of the common people. It’s why Marg was deemed such a threat, because she knew how to do just that.
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Varys is also pragmatic though, and is willing to take fairly grim action when necessary. He supported the Lannisters and co for years in spite of their actions of evil. In medieval warfare as depicted in the show sacking a city or taking it by force is basically par for the course. And is something Daenerys was willing to do at other points in the show - yet whereas it was back then portrayed as heroic, now it's suddenly an indication of madness.

Not to mention he was plotting in Season 1 to literally have Drogo invade and pillage Westeros.
 
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Man of Leisure said:
When did Tyrion turn into Woody? Seems like every move he's advised and advocated for has turned out wrong.
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He's almost gotten weirdly moralistic in a way he wasn't before. This is someone who was quite happy to serve his family until he was accused of killing Joffrey, and who has basically built himself up as a politician on the basis of being a pragmatist. The sudden shift to someone completely unwilling to see poor people etc harmed is completely out of character and doesn't feel earned at all. Feels like the writers imposing more modern values on a medieval setting.
 
Redlambs said:
He's going back because he realises Cersei and his baby are in danger.

He hasn't suddenly gone back to being a bad guy, he said that to Brienne to likely justify his motives to himself. But in reality he HAS changed and I'm sure we'll get an ending for him to show that.

Just likely a terribly contrived one.
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Well he's the only one and maybe Tyrion that knows the child isn't really Euron's so I'd thread carefully around her. She also sent Bronn to kill him so I'm not sure how well he'll be received by his loving sister. She goes to great length to protect her lies just so that she can get what she wants. It'll be messy.
 
Varys is a giant hypocrite. He moves from one ruler to another, sparking off wars that cost the lives of thousands of civilians. Yet he's trying to 'protect the people'. Ahuh.
 
RedSky said:
I don't think he'll kill her. She threatened to kill him but didn't go through with it, why would Jamie come back and kill her? It's more likely he'll come back to protect her from being killed. Lets not forget she has his child, he still loves her despite her being a monster. He's probably going down there to attempt to make her stand down and be put on trial.
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Well someone else just became the father of her baby and I'm pretty sure she'd want it to stay that way.
 
Would love to see Varys on the throne with Greyworm.
 
Taking bets right now that the "Shame" meme will be used en masse directed at Benioff and Weiss by the time the final two episodes have aired. If people are pissed now.. Dany in particular seems to have almost a cult like following when you try to point out her flaws etc...its almost freaky how mad they get for saying anything bad about her.
 
Redlambs said:
Again, though, they are saying exactly that. Dany kind of forgot.

Just because the other characters didn't about her, it doesn't change the fact that it's a monumentally stupid idea. That Dany and her entire command simply forgot.

You tend to assume a hell of a lot about what people are thinking, from me to D&D. When the fact is I'm not saying everything they've written is dumb (in fact a few pages back I praised a few things), and they DID say Dany "kind of forgot". Hell, I'm not even the main one having a go at it, nor the bloody scorpions, you are getting wound up and tarring me with the same brush a little here mate.
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You think I'm the one getting wound up? :lol: There's plenty of people losing their shit over this show. I find it rather amusing.

Then I don't know what to say. I can't see how anyone can look at this objectively and come to the conclusion that these multi-award winning exec producers/writers were incapable of thinking of something better than ‘she forget’. If you think that then yes, you do think they’re idiots. And I'm the one making the daft assumptions? They did say it. But as I've shown there was a lot of contextually important things said immediately beforehand. If you choose to take it entirely out of context and ignore what was said before then that’s your prerogative I suppose. Which of the two seems more likely to you?
 
RedSky said:
Varys is a giant hypocrite. He moves from one ruler to another, sparking off wars that cost the lives of thousands of civilians. Yet he's trying to 'protect the people'. Ahuh.
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I reckon he’s got a secret - that he’s somehow an hier to the throne
 
ivaldo said:
You think I'm the one getting wound up? :lol: There's plenty of people losing their shit over this show. I find it rather amusing.

Then I don't know what to say. I can't see how anyone can look at this objectively and come to the conclusion that these multi-award winning exec producers/writers were incapable of thinking of something better than ‘she forget’. If you think that then yes, you do think they’re idiots. And I'm the one making the daft assumptions? They did say it. But as I've shown there was a lot of contextually important things said immediately beforehand. If you choose to take it entirely out of context and ignore what was said before then that’s your prerogative I suppose. Which of the two seems more likely to you?
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I honestly don't think you are reading posts now, just repeating the same thing over and over.

If you want to guess at what people really mean when they say something, good for you. But that doesn't make you right at all. The "context" you provided doesn't either, as it still doesn't explain how her and all her advisers could just forget. Forget a giant naval force and huge dragon busting weapons. For all your bluster, those are still their words and not mine.

Anyway, no need to go further. You should go pester one of the actual people calling them stupid :lol:
 
Redlambs said:
Probably. Another Targ, or even Valyrian decent? Is that even possible? :lol:
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Ha! Anything is possible

Makes sense to me in that hes a wealth of knowledge and a fervent supporter of the realm. He knows he could never be a king whilst there are so many blood thirsty claims and because he’s cockless he’d get laughed out off it
 
golden_blunder said:
If you kill Cersei and dany off, who is the big bad for final episode?
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I think there's going to be a twist somewhere. I swear if Jon rejoins the Night's Watch I'm going to be so disappointed. I've got a feeling they might do that though.
 
Redlambs said:
I honestly don't think you are reading posts now, just repeating the same thing over and over.

If you want to guess at what people really mean when they say something, good for you. But that doesn't make you right at all. The "context" you provided doesn't either, as it still doesn't explain how her and all her advisers could just forget. Forget a giant naval force and huge dragon busting weapons. For all your bluster, those are still their words and not mine.

Anyway, no need to go further. You should go pester one of the actual people calling them stupid :lol:
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I’ve added context and you had entirely ignored it, you’ve not even addressed it to say why you think it doesn’t count. You’ve just regurgitated that ‘He said it’ line and that’s it. And I’m the one not reading?

Erm, that’s exactly what you’re doing? You do take everything people say literally? :wenger:

I’m not sure what you aren’t getting. I don’t think she and her advisers just forgot, I’ve made that abundantly clear. She’s been entirely focussed on fighting an army of the dead while the iron fleet has been entirely focussed on her. If you don’t think those paragraphs were related then we are to just assume he dropped a random line in the middle of a point he was making and just moved on. The more I look at it, the dafter it becomes. I’m guessing you haven’t actually seen the full thing and just the clipped bit.
 
Klopper76 said:
I think there's going to be a twist somewhere. I swear if Jon rejoins the Night's Watch I'm going to be so disappointed. I've got a feeling they might do that though.
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nightwatch? They’re all dead apart from Sam and Jon. The wall is fecked. There’s no more white walkers. The wildlings are now allies. So, no need for the nightwatch anymore
 
Klopper76 said:
I think there's going to be a twist somewhere. I swear if Jon rejoins the Night's Watch I'm going to be so disappointed. I've got a feeling they might do that though.
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Why would they need a Nights Watch without the Night King and being on good terms with the Free Folk?
 
ivaldo said:
I’ve added context and you had entirely ignored it, you’ve not even addressed it to say why you think it doesn’t count. You’ve just regurgitated that ‘He said it’ line and that’s it. And I’m the one not reading?

Erm, that’s exactly what you’re doing? You do take everything people say literally? :wenger:

I’m not sure what you aren’t getting. I don’t think she and her advisers just forgot, I’ve made that abundantly clear. She’s been entirely focussed on fighting an army of the dead while the iron fleet has been entirely focussed on her. If you don’t think those paragraphs were related then we are to just assume he dropped a random line in the middle of a point he was making and just moved on. The more I look at it, the dafter it becomes.
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Did you really just "I know you are, but what am I?" Me? :lol:

Seriously brother, move on. I have referenced your "context" and have plainly said I still don't buy it. One last time, I'm not the one who said those words and I'm not also calling them stupid hacks.

I honestly don't know what else to say to you, again, pester someone who is actually saying they are shit :lol:
 
I dont think the director means Dany forgot all about them (in terms of story, i think he fcked up when speaking) as there are scenes where shes actively discussing them with her troops.
I think he mispoke but he didnt do himself any favours if he was trying to defend a scene.

Regardless, he should have just said Dany underestimated the power of Eurons fleet vs a flying dragon (which has taken out ships before). The mass production of the scorpion was a surprise, as they would have thought the dragons would have been been able to avoid one or two. Or just said she was so emotional about what has happened coupled with Jon being the rightful heir, she wanted to attack straight away and was too focused on KL that she wasnt paying attention to the sea below her.
That along with saying Euron is a sea master, and can manipulate the sea / fog to hide his fleet hence why they werent seen (which is why the Dornish were taking out last season).

Or they should have just shown the scene being a fleet that they saw and were going towards, but on the side as they approached was the weapons (a scattering of them) which meant she had to escape (kept the scene where she was going to go down to burn them, but realised it wasnt worth the risk having lost one).


Watching the show again with my gf, got to s4. Brans vision in ep1 shows only one dragon over KL and the scene of the throne room (which dany also had) where its all wiped out. Guessing thats what we are heading towards.
 
Cheesy said:
He's almost gotten weirdly moralistic in a way he wasn't before. This is someone who was quite happy to serve his family until he was accused of killing Joffrey, and who has basically built himself up as a politician on the basis of being a pragmatist. The sudden shift to someone completely unwilling to see poor people etc harmed is completely out of character and doesn't feel earned at all. Feels like the writers imposing more modern values on a medieval setting.
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Same could be said about Varys.
 
Redlambs said:
So do you think he has changed back to bad, or will still continue the redemption arc?

Because for me, whatever the reason, he still does a Theon and dies trying to atone.
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I’d rather he ends the show a villain. Like he said, he’s a villain through and through. I think that’s the reason Brianne was sobbing so much, as she realised this too.
 
Redlambs said:
Did you really just "I know you are, but what am I?" Me? :lol:

Seriously brother, move on. I have referenced your "context" and have plainly said I still don't buy it. One last time, I'm not the one who said those words and I'm not also calling them stupid hacks.

I honestly don't know what else to say to you, again, pester someone who is actually saying they are shit :lol:
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How else do you follow up the classic ‘you aren’t reading my posts’ line after ignoring a large segment of my post? :lol:

No, you’re the one taking what they said literally, expecting him to not have a better explanation that she forgot, even what he said before actually adds logical context. But hey, you don’t think they’re idiots. :wenger:

Seriously dude, before going any further you might want to do yourself a favour and actually watch it.
 
Sylar said:
I dont think the director means Dany forgot all about them (in terms of story, i think he fcked up when speaking) as there are scenes where shes actively discussing them with her troops.
I think he mispoke but he didnt do himself any favours if he was trying to defend a scene.

Regardless, he should have just said Dany underestimated the power of Eurons fleet vs a flying dragon (which has taken out ships before). The mass production of the scorpion was a surprise, as they would have thought the dragons would have been been able to avoid one or two. Or just said she was so emotional about what has happened coupled with Jon being the rightful heir, she wanted to attack straight away and was too focused on KL that she wasnt paying attention to the sea below her.
That along with saying Euron is a sea master, and can manipulate the sea / fog to hide his fleet hence why they werent seen (which is why the Dornish were taking out last season).

Or they should have just shown the scene being a fleet that they saw and were going towards, but on the side as they approached was the weapons (a scattering of them) which meant she had to escape (kept the scene where she was going to go down to burn them, but realised it wasnt worth the risk having lost one).


Watching the show again with my gf, got to s4. Brans vision in ep1 shows only one dragon over KL and the scene of the throne room (which dany also had) where its all wiped out. Guessing thats what we are heading towards.
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Being caught by surprise is definitely a thing. Though how she would in that situation is another thing, and yes I get he didn't literally mean that she completely forgot about them, but wasn't maybe expecting it.

However, it was funny to hear and a stupid thing for him to say. It's also, again, a very stupid thing for her character and all her generals to do.
 
ivaldo said:
How else do you follow up the classic ‘you aren’t reading my posts’ line after ignoring a large segment of my post? :lol:

No, you’re the one taking what they said literally, expecting him to not have a better explanation that she forgot, even what he said before actually adds logical context. But hey, you don’t think they’re idiots. :wenger:

Seriously dude, before going any further you might want to do yourself a favour and actually watch it.
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:lol: Christ, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Cool chat bro, all the best!
 
Andy_Cole said:
I’d rather he ends the show a villain. Like he said, he’s a villain through and through. I think that’s the reason Brianne was sobbing so much, as she realised this too.
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Yeah, me too. I just don't see it at all.

He's going to repeat the same grovelling trying to change her, shit goes down, and he likely Queenslayers her. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 
Redlambs said:
:lol: Christ, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Cool chat bro, all the best!
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Erm...
Redlambs said:
Being caught by surprise is definitely a thing. Though how she would in that situation is another thing, and yes I get he didn't literally mean that she completely forgot about them,
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Redlambs said:
Again, though, they are saying exactly that. Dany kind of forgot.
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feck me :lol:

Edit: Incase you get confused, although I said it, I don’t literally want you to feck me.
 
ivaldo said:
feck me :lol:
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And?

My point to you was you don't know that for sure and you have a habit of putting words in peoples mouths. Hence why it's easier to chat to Sylar.

I did mean to say I get he might not have literally said that too, but meh, what's the point. You go all rabbid all the same.

Either way, believe what you want chief.
 
Redlambs said:
Being caught by surprise is definitely a thing. Though how she would in that situation is another thing, and yes I get he didn't literally mean that she completely forgot about them, but wasn't maybe expecting it.

However, it was funny to hear and a stupid thing for him to say. It's also, again, a very stupid thing for her character and all her generals to do.
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Yeah, when I heard the clip, I was like 'wtf, just stop talking'. This made me laugh:

 
Man of Leisure said:
Same could be said about Varys.
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Pretty much. Even when he's set on something he's generally very careful and pragmatic in his plotting, especially when it's considered he spent decades serving Robert and Joffrey. Yet now he's suddenly openly speaking of betraying Daenerys.
 
Redlambs said:
And?

My point to you was you don't know that for sure and you have a habit of putting words in peoples mouths. Hence why it's easier to chat to Sylar.

I did mean to say I get he might not have literally said that too, but meh, what's the point. You go all rabbid all the same.

Either way, believe what you want chief.
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And? You’ve stoically argued with my point he didn’t literally mean she entirely forgot, telling me I haven’t been reading your posts, and then in a post to another poster you say exactly what I’ve been saying. Why on earth have you persisted with this? It’s not as if what I’ve been saying is cryptic.

The irony being you’re now telling me what you said wasnt literally what you meant, and you ‘forgot’ to say he might not have literally said it. It’s incredible.
 
Cheesy said:
Pretty much. Even when he's set on something he's generally very careful and pragmatic in his plotting, especially when it's considered he spent decades serving Robert and Joffrey. Yet now he's suddenly openly speaking of betraying Daenerys.
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Did he not arrange the poison attempt on Dany? I'm guessing the only way to counter that is if he also sent the note to Jorah to stop it. It just seems a little odd for all his planning, life risking and people that have died in his schemes, his very open to suddenly ditching her for Jon.
 
ivaldo said:
:lol: There’s an entire sentence before that that just happens to be missing. I was right. You really hadn’t watched it and just googled it now. Wow.
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Googled what? :lol:

Dude, your little chihuahua act was amusing at first but now it's boring. If you want to think I'm calling them stupid useless hacks for saying the situation is dumb, then fine. But for the fourth and last time, lets stop as there's absolutely nothing new coming from this.
 
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