Ah, you're so right, I wasn't engaging with you properly at all.
I should have gone back to 2018 to do that.
No, just from 16:52 today.
Where did I say "within the arms of the church?
You didn't specifically. You stated -
Don't hold back now. It's all because we've run away from the church, isn't it?
And all marriages and families were perfect in the past, which the stats also bear out, naturally?
If you think 'within the arms of the church' is an unfair parallel for that, then apologies. If you'd rather an alternative I'll go back and change it.
You insinuated that our society, marriage, and family are in decline. It's a completely logical point for me to make that there have ALWAYS been issues with these, which undoubtedly in certain cases were amplified by people being forced to remain with each other by social pressures even though they hated each others guts.
Of course there are always issues with these. That's the case everywhere, no matter which country or culture it is; which is why I contrasted the Irish statistics with those of other countries.
You're also correct with your point regarding social pressures. However, nowadays it's also fair to ponder how many marriages breakdown because those in the marriage don't take it (and family) as seriously as previous generations. What proportion do the 'hating each others guts' partnerships take up in other words?
It's demonstrably true that marriage (& family) has declined in importance, just look at the statistics. Of course many may see that as good thing, but that's a separate point.
The second point I made often follows on from the line of thinking you were running along. Very often people who bemoan the things you do also have other conservative views. That's not your case in that regard, it seems.
Yet the caveat of 'it seems' remains.
In your post on the other site, you lament problems for working class people which develop due to immigration. Most of it is couched sympathetically but this line skirts closely to something quite dodgy.
It may indeed skirt close to something contentious, especially when the rest of the line isn't quoted alongside it.
My point about the working class and immigration was more descriptive than a lament. It's also important to remember the context i.e - debating the issue in the forthcoming referendum.
I think you've been shown a lot more honest engagement by everyone else here than you've provided yourself when you spotted a popular topic on the Caf today and decided to regurgitate out your warmed-over manifesto on the woes of the western world.
You're doing it again.
For future reference you'll notice that I used quotation marks for 'Western World'. I did (and do) this because I don't like the term and because it suited the purposes of that discussion as a comparator.
Reasons for the former include: i) I'm not 'Western', ii)what goes on in other 'Western' countries is their business, and iii) the term has been used insidiously, in my view, since the American & British led conflicts in the Middle East began nearly 20 years ago. So, as I said, I don't like it.
