Abortion

oates said:
Life is what you make of it but obviously if you can't do that and blame all your problems on your situation of birth then it's up to the individual.
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I'm sure you don't mean it that way because you don't know the specific situations I'm talking about, but in light of the stories of I've heard phrasing it that way sounds pretty cold-hearted.

Coincidentally, one story I heard was when volunteering during the referendum last year.
 
oates said:
My own personal story is that having a single parent, no money, 15 different schools because of moving around, eventually ending up with some qualifications and decent jobs. Being able to retire before hitting 50 and having what I regard as a fulfilling and challenging life I'm pretty glad that while my Mum who had an abortion of a child and going through some quite tough decisions actually decided to keep me when she fell pregnant again. I don't think if you asked any child born into whatever family unless they had some severe mental issues that they'd actually say that they wished they'd never been born at all.
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Fair enough. Going back to the original question of abortion - I just feel that if you cant offer a child a good QoL etc then it is arguably more selfish to keep the kid regardless. The only person who suffers from an abortion is the parent, in my eyes, since I agree with the scientific "not yet formed a consciousness" etc arguments.

Obviously it is great that you have done well for yourself in life, but do you think that is a result of your upbringing? And/or do you think that had you been brought up in better (without wanting that to sound critical of your family as I obviously do not know them) circumstances you could have done even better out of life?
 
unchanged_lineup said:
I'm sure you don't mean it that way because you don't know the specific situations I'm talking about, but in light of the stories of I've heard phrasing it that way sounds pretty cold-hearted.
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Well I can't speak for the people you know but if you think every person born into shitty beginnings and I have to tell you that being born a bastard during the early 60s and growing up in the 70s brought some pretty shitty advantages (not advantages) feels like they would prefer to have been aborted then you have a lot of unlucky acquaintances.
 
Walrus said:
Fair enough. Going back to the original question of abortion - I just feel that if you cant offer a child a good QoL etc then it is arguably more selfish to keep the kid regardless. The only person who suffers from an abortion is the parent, in my eyes, since I agree with the scientific "not yet formed a consciousness" etc arguments.

Obviously it is great that you have done well for yourself in life, but do you think that is a result of your upbringing? And/or do you think that had you been brought up in better (without wanting that to sound critical of your family as I obviously do not know them) circumstances you could have done even better out of life?
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I just don't feel you have the right to say or believe all of this when you've not met every person ever born into shitty circumstances.
 
oates said:
Well I can't speak for the people you know but if you think every person born into shitty beginnings and I have to tell you that being born a bastard during the early 60s and growing up in the 70s brought some pretty shitty advantages (not advantages) feels like they would prefer to have been aborted then you have a lot of unlucky acquaintances.
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I didn't say a lot, I said a few. And yes, the stories I've heard are worse than that. I don't particularly want to argue with you about this, but that is the case.
 
oates said:
I just don't feel you have the right to say or believe all of this when you've not met every person ever born into shitty circumstances.
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Plenty of people born into shitty circumstances go on to do very well for themselves. Plenty of rich folk grow into becoming hateable snobs (like about 95% of politicians). There are undoubtedly a lot of factors involved, and I appreciate that you cant measure someones life and QoL on a yardstick. Nonetheless, I would rather see fewer (ideally, zero) children born into any sort of impoverished conditions - there are enough poor, starving kids in the world already. My own life and "story" influences this stance a lot, just as I imagine yours does for yourself.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
I didn't say a lot. And yes, the stories I've heard are worse than that. I don't particularly want to argue with you about this, but that is the case.
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Look I think it's bull. I've worked with a lot of kids from misearble backgrounds and the vast majority have hopes, dreams and plans so I can't take your word for it. I'm talking about Texas Chain Massacre beginnings in some cases and I don't believe it's up to us to pontificate whatever our beliefs on Abortion are.
 
oates said:
Look I think it's bull. I've worked with a lot of kids from misearble backgrounds and the vast majority have hopes, dreams and plans so I can't take your word for it. I'm talking about Texas Chain Massacre beginnings in some cases and I don't believe it's up to us to pontificate whatever our beliefs on Abortion are.
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Feckin hell. Who's pontificating? I've just relayed what people said to me. It's not my fault if you can't take what people have said about their own lives at face value.

I think you're somewhat over-invested in this point, which is understandable, but this is how the people I spoke to felt, in their own words.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Feckin hell. Who's pontificating? I've just relayed what people said to me. It's not my fault if you can't take what people have said about their own lives at face value.
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I'm saying there are percentages either way and I'm saying you are pontificating like a eugenicist tbh.
 
Good grief, Pro-Choice is supposed to be supporting women's choice either way and we've got people advocating aborting any foetus with a single parent just because it doesn't have every advantage in life. Get a grip.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Seriously. I'm reporting what others said. Stop.
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Good. But let's just hold off on pre-judging everyone's life chances just because we spoke to some people eh?
 
oates said:
Good grief, Pro-Choice is supposed to be supporting women's choice either way and we've got people advocating aborting any foetus with a single parent just because it doesn't have every advantage in life. Get a grip.
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"Choice" is the key word. All I am advocating is that prospective parents who decide they would rather not bring a child into the world, be allowed to make that decision. Otherwise what is next, contraception bans?
 
Walrus said:
"Choice" is the key word. All I am advocating is that prospective parents who decide they would rather not bring a child into the world, be allowed to make that decision. Otherwise what is next, contraception bans?
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Oh, Prospective parents making a choice. Yes, that doesn't look too bad. Now.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Who's prejudging? I'm telling you what others said to me. No judgement.
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Okay then, you're not prejudging. You're not going to persuade any pregnant single women not to have their child based on your experiences of some people saying that they wish they'd never been born at all because I get that's not what you were saying. You weren't saying that, just not at all. Just having a perfectly harmless discussion, no single pregnant women were present during.

All good. Because we're Pro-Choice.
 
Woah woah. I was replying directly to this statement of yours with stories of experiences that are different to your own.

oates said:
I don't think if you asked any child born into whatever family unless they had some severe mental issues that they'd actually say that they wished they'd never been born at all.
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unchanged_lineup said:
Woah woah. I was replying directly to this statement of yours with stories of experiences that are different to your own.
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Good. We're saying that some would never say that they wish they'd never been born while you've had some discussions with some who have said that they wish they had never been born.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
But the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation /paste

Ohio is clearly in undecline.
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I'm in favour of choice for the well known exceptions/hard cases.

Try harder next time.
 
Unsurprisingly, it's the former.

Now let's move on.
 
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Boy, this is a shocking thread. Just read these comments.

 
I don't want to read them. Best to avoid depression.
Edit: I read it. Depressing.
 
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I find it seriously depressing that some people are against abortion in 2021.
 
What's a paleoconservative? How does it differ to a normal conservative?
 
OleBoiii said:
A caveman, surely?

Perhaps an alt-right Joe Rogan fanboy who's jumped on the paleo diet?
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That’s what I was thinking! The only time I’ve heard of the paleo term is in relation to diet and nutrition.

edit: and Ross from Friends speaking about what he does…
 
VorZakone said:
Boy, this is a shocking thread. Just read these comments.

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Sweet Jesus, I'd hate to be a daughter of any of them!

I always love the thought-experiment regarding mandatory vasectomies.
  • Either at birth (or at a set age) every boy has a vasectomy
  • When that boy grows to an age where he feels ready to father children he undergoes testing to ensure he has the means and correct inspiration to become a father
  • Once the child is born they get another vasectomy
Would be interesting to see how many of them would be in favour of that!
 
My Ex Missus had an abortion. She hid it from me and told me she had a miscarriage. Eventually I found out and ended the relationship.

An abortion is ablsolutely a woman's right and no-one else's. But whether you are for or against it, the impact of it when you are affected by it follows you the rest of your life.

Thats what I will say about it from personal experience.
 
Rooney24 said:
My Ex Missus had an abortion. She hid it from me and told me she had a miscarriage. Eventually I found out and ended the relationship.

An abortion is ablsolutely a woman's right and no-one else's. But whether you are for or against it, the impact of it when you are affected by it follows you the rest of your life.

Thats what I will say about it from personal experience.
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I don't think anyone thinks it is an easy or cost free choice.
 
Wibble said:
I don't think anyone thinks it is an easy or cost free choice.
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Ironically, the Rick Santorums of the world seem to think infidels have abortions for fun and use then as a substitute for a condom. That's the most shocking thing about the pro "life" crowd. They always seem to forget the abortion has by far the most affect on the person having it. Fecking cnuts.
 
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