Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Fully Fledged said:
Because the people up North didn't treat her with respect. Not only the Lady of Winterfell but the plebs scowled at her and spat at her friends and advisers. She said to Jon your people don't love me. They will turn on me if they know you have a claim.
Click to expand...
Right and her solution to that is to burn the entire city. That makes sense. Those Northener's always have been big softies who cave to that sort of thing.

Anyway what you're sort of implying is that she actually thought it through as opposed to just going batshit crazy once the bells went off which is probably even more dumb if that's the way the writers planned it.

By the way nobody has an issue with Dany going mad queen, I don't, I've always felt it'd probably happen, it was just done in a really terrible, daft way.
 
Art Vandelay said:
The hints were there, but if they really intended it before this season then I don't think they would have been hints, they would have been giant neon signs saying "MENTALIST! SHE'S A MENTALIST!!" They abandoned all subtlety ages ago. The only way they manage surprises now is by total ass pulls from out of nowhere.

I'm convinced the decision for her to go nuts was when they were writing this season and wanted to shock. It had nothing to do with any hints from before.
Click to expand...
I don't want the people that make the entertainment that I watch to telegraph what's going to happen in the show. I want to have to work some things out for myself.
 
Beachryan said:
I don't think her going mad is a problem. At all. In fact I'd wager GRRM wrote it that way.

But the way it was told was garbage, and it didn't have to be. Her father had visions, heard voices. So just literally put those in, like 3 times.

1: Scene where everyone is ra'ing Jon, focus on Danys face - have whispering come into the audio quoting from past episodes about never being loved in Westeros

2: scene where shes leaning against a pillar when Jon walks in: have more whispering as she stares into space, maybe this time the sound of flames and screaming from when she burned the dothraki tent. Then show her snap back to reality

3: when shes sitting hearing the bells , meld in Messeindei screaming draconis, then her yelling it various times, and ending with her eyes opening with fire reflecting in them.

There you go. All done in post, no need to film anything new, she goes mad.
Click to expand...
Those are good ideas that would have made her switch a bit better
 
Beachryan said:
I don't think her going mad is a problem. At all. In fact I'd wager GRRM wrote it that way.

But the way it was told was garbage, and it didn't have to be. Her father had visions, heard voices. So just literally put those in, like 3 times.

1: Scene where everyone is ra'ing Jon, focus on Danys face - have whispering come into the audio quoting from past episodes about never being loved in Westeros

2: scene where shes leaning against a pillar when Jon walks in: have more whispering as she stares into space, maybe this time the sound of flames and screaming from when she burned the dothraki tent. Then show her snap back to reality

3: when shes sitting hearing the bells , meld in Messeindei screaming draconis, then her yelling it various times, and ending with her eyes opening with fire reflecting in them.

There you go. All done in post, no need to film anything new, she goes mad.
Click to expand...

Could have had a apparition of her father appear in the skies whilst she was listening to those bells ring

'go on lass, you know you want to, its actually pretty fun'
 
Fully Fledged said:
No it's not if she wanted everybody to fear what she could do she would let them see she was prepared to go further than Cersei.
Click to expand...

The Red Keep is an iconic part of Kings Landing, it's huge and it's now been severely damaged and burnt out. There were civilians in there too. It was a far greater message of fear than Cersei blowing up the Sept and the people were petrified of her. We got to see how afraid the average person was of Daenerys after the Gold Train episode when the Tarlys were burned. One roar from Drogon and the majority knelt. That was before she burnt the Tarlys. Destroying the capitals Keep whilst burning alive the current Queen and burning the Royal Guard along with a few hundred/thousand unfortunate civilians would have been a clear message. It didn't need her flattening the entire city.

You'll argue against that naturally. We all have differing opinions.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I don't want the people that make the entertainment that I watch to telegraph what's going to happen in the show. I want to have to work some things out for myself.
Click to expand...
:lol: Mate, everyone had worked out that she was going to go nuts by the previous episode, people aren't complaining about that. It's how it was written and executed that people (me included) hate.
 
kouroux said:
Dany was always going to turn and go evil. That's never been the issue, how quickly she went into madness is. They should never have reduced it to 6 episodes, it was impossible to not rush things
Click to expand...

Indeed.
But also the fact that she pretty much destroyed her main life objective, to sit on the iron throne.
She freakin destroyed the whole city, she will have to settle for the throne of dust.
 
I was planning to call my son The Mountain, but feck that, he's just Darth Vader in a different suit.

Reek it is.
 
kouroux said:
People watch it and don't share your views, it's as simple as that. I'll say it, her going crazy isn't the issue, it's how fast it happened and in the context of a city surrendering.
It's just too quick and is obviously a way to paint as evil as possible so that when she dies in the finale, fans won't feel bad about it.
Click to expand...
The point I'm making is that you said she didn't want to rule by fear alone when she came out and said that she was going to rule by fear alone.
Massive Spanner said:
Right and her solution to that is to burn the entire city. That makes sense. Those Northener's always have been big softies who cave to that sort of thing.

Anyway what you're sort of implying is that she actually thought it through as opposed to just going batshit crazy once the bells went off which is probably even more dumb if that's the way the writers planned it.

By the way nobody has an issue with Dany going mad queen, I don't, I've always felt it'd probably happen, it was just done in a really terrible, daft way.
Click to expand...

They did last time.

I've said before she has no internal mechanism that tells her when she is doing something wrong. Her advisers have played that part in the past but she has no advisers that she can trust.
 
kouroux said:
People watch it and don't share your views, it's as simple as that. I'll say it, her going crazy isn't the issue, it's how fast it happened and in the context of a city surrendering.
It's just too quick and is obviously a way to paint as evil as possible so that when she dies in the finale, fans won't feel bad about it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm with this.

We can't all like the same things, but it's when people clearly miss what's being said that it turns into a silly argument.
 
Redlambs said:
That's clearly nonsense though, you even said there's hints!

I completely agree with you that is was rushed trash how they did it, but she was ALWAYS going to heel turn, I just don't get how that's even a point of contention.

Btw, though not speaking to her drastic character change (so don't get that confused), but the bell talk at the start is exactly what you are saying with their big stupid neon signs :lol:
Click to expand...
I can't buy it :lol:

She'd have been combing the hair of a severed head and staring into the distance while muttering about butterflies stealing her thoughts for the past couple of years if they'd been fully committed to this all along. Seeing how badly they've handled it, I don't believe at all they could have contained themselves until now. They'd have gone way over the top with it if they'd given it any thought before now.

I'm not saying it's not set up for her to go nuts, it's built into her character, I'm saying they only decided themselves this season it was happening. This is not something they've been building to. The fact that there's been foreshadowing is almost just luck.
 
Ian Reus said:
So parents are outraged they named their new babies Khaleesi. Now they know what the new parents of kids named Adolf felt like right before Hitler went insane.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...hildren-name-season-8-mad-queen-a8913046.html
Click to expand...

The data found that 560 of those were named Khaleesi and 163 were named Daenerys.
Click to expand...

It's hard to understand someone naming their child after something in the show but it's harder still to accept Khaleesi is more popular than Daenerys.

Daenerys is a much prettier name!
 
I just figured it out. In much the same way that other writers sort of write “themselves” into their works, so have D&D.

Think about it. If Tom Bombadil was speculated to be something of a manifestation of Tolkien, and Sam was in some ways meant to represent a GRRM character.... Dany is D&D! A horrible, horrible decision maker who was previously restrained from doing stupid shut by advisors (read: GRRM/the books). Now they are finally in command of their own actions and writing it themselves, so the shackles come from and the sheer stupidity is unleashed on us all. It mirrors Dany quite nicely.
 
RedSky said:
The Red Keep is an iconic part of Kings Landing, it's huge and it's now been severely damaged and burnt out. There were civilians in there too. It was a far greater message of fear than Cersei blowing up the Sept and the people were petrified of her. We got to see how afraid the average person was of Daenerys after the Gold Train episode when the Tarlys were burned. One roar from Drogon and the majority knelt. That was before she burnt the Tarlys. Destroying the capitals Keep whilst burning alive the current Queen and burning the Royal Guard along with a few hundred/thousand unfortunate civilians would have been a clear message. It didn't need her flattening the entire city.

You'll argue against that naturally. We all have differing opinions.
Click to expand...
For most people that would be enough but she went further. Did she have to? Probably not. The fear it is then that she said to Jon led me to believe that this wasn't a sudden impulse. That she planned to get the people to fear her.
 
Fully Fledged said:
The point I'm making is that you said she didn't want to rule by fear alone when she came out and said that she was going to rule by fear alone.


They did last time.

I've said before she has no internal mechanism that tells her when she is doing something wrong. Her advisers have played that part in the past but she has no advisers that she can trust.
Click to expand...
Maybe that is the case but we got zero hints as to it being the case.

I don't see the point in arguing this anymore, you think it was well handled, I don't. The people who think it was seem to be getting pissed off that those who didn't don't share the same opinion as them and are doing the usual thing when that happens of calling them stupid and missing the point etc., as well as for someone reason inventing what they said, like saying they are daft for not thinking she'd turn mad or not wanting her to turn mad despite nobody even saying that.

People will never unanimously enjoy a TV show, I didn't enjoy that one, whaddayagonnado?
 
Let's make on thing clear people.

We are angry about the way they handled her fall, not the fact she fell. That was fecking obvious from the outset and a rather George'esque thing to do.

My question; why did they decide to make so few episodes? Just make it 10 and use 4 to depict her slowly going mad. Hell, throw in a JCVD like montage for all I care.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Maybe that is the case but we got zero hints as to it being the case.

I don't see the point in arguing this anymore, you think it was well handled, I don't. The people who think it was seem to be getting pissed off that those who didn't don't share the same opinion as them and are doing the usual thing when that happens of calling them stupid and missing the point etc.

People will never unanimously enjoy a TV show, I didn't enjoy that one, whaddayagonnado?
Click to expand...
I posted one above where Jorah talked her out of killing all the Masters. She couldn't fathom that killing thousands of people would be wrong so he had to go to, 'if Ned had ruled by that standard I wouldn't be here today.'

Apart from that 3 or 4 times her advisers have talked her out of laying waste to Kingslanding before this episode.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I posted one above where Jorah talked her out of killing all the Masters. She couldn't fathom that killing thousands of people would be wrong so he had to go to, 'if Ned had ruled by that standard I wouldn't be here today.'

Apart from that 3 or 4 times her advisers have talked her out of laying waste to Kingslanding before this episode.
Click to expand...
Well killing a few hundred masters (i.e slavers) is basically the same as burning tens of thousands of women and children to death to be fair.
 
Fully Fledged said:
For most people that would be enough but she went further. Did she have to? Probably not. The fear it is then that she said to Jon led me to believe that this wasn't a sudden impulse. That she planned to get the people to fear her.
Click to expand...

Which is fine, but you can get people to fear you by burning down the Keep just like Cersei did by destroying the Sept. There was no reason from my point of view that she had to burn the all of Kings Landing. Zero justification. Any normal person would have accepted that by burning the Iron Fleet and destroying the battlements (very easily) and forcing them to surrender that she had their fear. It would make sense from her perspective to go one step further and burn Cersei and the Red Keep to the ground. An act of fear, an act of revenge a symbol of her breaking the wheel. Instead she goes two steps further by not only destroying the Red Keep but destroying Kings Landing along with the murder (they had surrendered) of thousands of people.

If she's completely snapped and gone loco then ok. I'll be pissed because it's a shit story to tell, 'Daughter promises not to become father only to become father', but i'll accept it as their vision. If however she hasn't gone loco and simply did it out of rage then i'm going to be extremely annoyed.
 
Fully Fledged said:
The point I'm making is that you said she didn't want to rule by fear alone when she came out and said that she was going to rule by fear alone.


They did last time.

I've said before she has no internal mechanism that tells her when she is doing something wrong. Her advisers have played that part in the past but she has no advisers that she can trust.
Click to expand...
Obviously I forgot about that scene, it doesn't make how quickly she turned evil any less dumb for me.
Burning King's Landing in its entirety wasn't necessary to instill fear
 
Fully Fledged said:
Jorah said that she planned on killing thousands in the clip that I posted. Not hundreds. The masters were/are men women and children.
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ, let it go. I don't see killing a bunch of slavers the same as randomly deciding to butcher tens of thousands of women and children but obviously you do so I guess that's fine.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I posted one above where Jorah talked her out of killing all the Masters. She couldn't fathom that killing thousands of people would be wrong so he had to go to, 'if Ned had ruled by that standard I wouldn't be here today.'

Apart from that 3 or 4 times her advisers have talked her out of laying waste to Kingslanding before this episode.
Click to expand...

That's not even remotely true. She's been prone to harshness/cruelty to people who fought against her or betrayed her. But protecting innocents has always been a top priority. See for example her putting the "babies" in chains, because one of them roasted a shepherds daughter. If she just burns the Lannister soldiers far fewer people would complain.
 
R.N7 said:
xqwRC9D.jpg
Click to expand...

I knew Klopp was a weirdo but naming your kid after a war criminal is a bit much even for him.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This episode got really low ratings on IMDB. I guess the 'team dany' fans can't handle the arc that's been obvious for age. Looks like Emilia Clarke was one of them too.
Click to expand...

There’s always been this weird part of the fanbase that wanted the show to end like that shitty Aladdin scene in the first episode of season one and have Daenerys and Jon living happily ever after and ruling the seven kingdoms.

You have to wonder how or why they ever watched this show in the first place.
 
I think it would have been much less jarring if her turn had come as an emotional response to something a bit more serious than Jon not shagging her. For example, Cersei doesn’t execute Missandei in the previous episode, but then there is a scene of Dany (and Grey Worm) being sent her head. This provokes the pair of them to get really angry, cue Dany flying straight over to KL and burning it to the ground.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Jesus Christ, let it go. I don't see killing a bunch of slavers the same as randomly deciding to butcher tens of thousands of women and children but obviously you do so I guess that's fine.
Click to expand...
It's not the same but her inability to see that killing thousands of men women and children is a symptom of her sickness IMHO. She was an abused child. Abused children often turn into abusers if given the power to do so.

We can let it go though if you don't want to debate the point anymore.
 
Art Vandelay said:
I can't buy it :lol:

She'd have been combing the hair of a severed head and staring into the distance while muttering about butterflies stealing her thoughts for the past couple of years if they'd been fully committed to this all along. Seeing how badly they've handled it, I don't believe at all they could have contained themselves until now. They'd have gone way over the top with it if they'd given it any thought before now.

I'm not saying it's not set up for her to go nuts, it's built into her character, I'm saying they only decided themselves this season it was happening. This is not something they've been building to. The fact that there's been foreshadowing is almost just luck.
Click to expand...
KirkDuyt said:
Let's make on thing clear people.

We are angry about the way they handled her fall, not the fact she fell. That was fecking obvious from the outset and a rather George'esque thing to do.

My question; why did they decide to make so few episodes? Just make it 10 and use 4 to depict her slowly going mad. Hell, throw in a JCVD like montage for all I care.
Click to expand...

Not all of us :lol:
 
kouroux said:
Obviously I forgot about that scene, it doesn't make how quickly she turned evil any less dumb for me.
Burning King's Landing in its entirety wasn't necessary to instill fear
Click to expand...
Yeah I get that but it's little things like that that add up the reason some of us saw this coming.

I don't think it did either but I believe she thinks it did. At the end of the day it's only an opinion though.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Maybe that is the case but we got zero hints as to it being the case.
Click to expand...

Tyrion said last season that the difference between Dany and Cersei was that Dany picked advisors to curb her worst impulses. In other words without those advisors.....
 
sullydnl said:
Tyrion said last season that the difference between Dany and Cersei was that Dany picked advisors to curb her worst impulses. In other words without those advisors.....
Click to expand...
She still had the advisers. Tyrion told her about 50 fecking times in that episode to stop if the bells went off!
 
2mufc0 said:
Did anyone else think Arya got too much screen time? I'm sick of the sight of her, she's not even that interesting.
Click to expand...

we needed to see why she will (try to?) kill Dany next episode.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.