Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
How else could it have happened? It accelerated over the last few episodes and it was clear it could happen. What’s the alternative, she snaps in the tactic room and everyone sees it and tells her to have a lie down?
Snapping on the dragon at that point when she has adrenaline and toxic power running through her makes perfect sense. There’s so many other plot holes to take offence at, Dany’s arc leading up to and including this is about the only thing they got spot on.
Interesting, I think you're the only one who sees it that way. Fair enough.
Plenty of foreshadowing that Bolton was turning. It was one of the underlying plots of Season 3:
It was probably the best story arc of the entire show imo. Unlike the 'twists' nowadays where the foreshadowing occurs in dialogue of the same episode or episode before. Aka "You're safe in the crypts" or "stop attacking when you hear the bells".
It was probably the best story arc of the entire show imo. Unlike the 'twists' nowadays where the foreshadowing occurs in dialogue of the same episode or episode before. Aka "You're safe in the crypts" or "stop attacking when you hear the bells".
It's one of the things they fecked up by far for me
I'll tell your missus!
So basically the problem with the haters is that they don't get what a twist is .
Danny going mad was a twist in the whole story and it's iten planned from the start .
The thing with a twist is you are not supposed to see it coming until it does then you look back at what the signs were leading up to it .
Have these people ever seen any whodunit?
Were they unhappy with the crying game because he never whipped his load out till the end ?
Same way Bruce Willis never wondered why he could go through walls in the 6th sense until the last 5 mins
Danny going mad was a twist in the whole story and it's iten planned from the start .
The thing with a twist is you are not supposed to see it coming until it does then you look back at what the signs were leading up to it .
Have these people ever seen any whodunit?
Were they unhappy with the crying game because he never whipped his load out till the end ?
Same way Bruce Willis never wondered why he could go through walls in the 6th sense until the last 5 mins
Erm.... Of course he isn't...
I mean...
I must have missed that time when she went out of her way to kill innocent children and women. If she had gone ahead and obliterated the red keep and killed all those innocent people around it, then ok I could get that, but spend an hour going street by street killing children... yeah sorry but nothing she's done in the past come anywhere close to that.
Sort of agree.
Someone compared it unfavourably to Walter White's descent for example, which is obviously silly as one was meant to be a shock while the other wasn't.
At the same time, you can still argue that they could have taken more time to set up the twist this season.
Wasnt it Robbs mother that freed Jaime? But with regards to Ramsay, at the time, it didnt hint towards Roose. I still see them as different (Ramsay is clearly more fcked up and I dont think everything he did was based on Roose word). Sure you can look back and say, they are a fcked up family. But I was more shocked at Roose turn than what Dany did with the dragon.
Nope, you've not been reading the thread. But all good.
@Sylar - forgot to tag you btw in the post I made above, watch the video. It's pretty awesome how subtle Bolton turning was. Also I had never twigged until watching that video that it was fecking Ramsey who was blowing the horn.
Just watched it. But again, I think you could make the same argument for Dany. (Although I dont think youre arguing that Dany turn wasnt coming)
I do agree it was rushed somewhat, and I dont think should be aimed at you (given I think somebody else said it), but how long do we think passed between season 7 (her coming to the island) and the last episode.
months and months surely? Even between the beginning of this season and to the last episode. It seems to have been a shit load of time. An issue of the shorter season is we couldnt spend more time with Dany to see more subtleness towards her turning. But same time, I see people saying her turn wasnt justified.
I dont know. I think its clear now, some will buy into it the way it played out, some wont due to the way it played out (too rush) . Think weve had about 30 pages worth of that (whilst theres one or two who just think her turning at all was nonsense haha)
A twist still needs to make sense, no matter how unsuspecting the audience is. I’d say this ‘twist’ just about makes sense, but only in a really ham-fisted, obnoxious, insult-to-the-audience kind of way.
Catelyn initially frees him against Robb's orders. Then Bolton's men take him and chop off his hand. But Roose sends him back to Tywin instead - a direct betrayal of Robb. Couldn't have been much more obvious.
And in retrospect it becomes obvious Ramsay has Theon - in Season 2 Roose directly tells Robb his bastard is just days from Winterfell.
This was transcript from end of season 6 which I watched last night
The way I see it, if you take her mentality it's always been about burning things to get her way when angry. She's always been advised against it. However when she's not angry she does want to be a great ruler who is adored.
Last episode she was angry piled with more anger and more. This is the most devastated she's been without having an advisor to see her through and without a moment of happiness sandwiched in
One person's innocent is another person's guilty. It's all about perspective imo. She killed all the slave masters sure but they weren't all guilty. Didn't one dany kill a master, but his son told her that he was against slavery
Dany snapping lead to her not thinking and doing things that is horrid
I guess next episode we see if she regrets it when she calms down or if she continues on believing she did the right thing for the world
DAENERYS: I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt. That is my plan.
TYRION tightens his jaw and looks away.
DAENERYS: You don’t approve?
TYRION: You once told me you knew what your father was. Did you know his plans for King’s Landing when the Lannister armies were at his gates?
An explosion occurs outside.
TYRION: Probably not. Well, he told my brother and Jaime told me. He had caches of wildfire hidden under the Red Keep, the Guildhalls, the Sept of Baelor, all the major thoroughfares. He would have burned every one of his citizens. The loyal ones and the trators. Every man, woman, and child. That’s why Jaime killed him.
DAENERYS: This is entirely different.
TYRION: You’re talking about destroying cities. It’s not entirely different. I’d like to suggest an alternate approach.
TYRION tightens his jaw and looks away.
DAENERYS: You don’t approve?
TYRION: You once told me you knew what your father was. Did you know his plans for King’s Landing when the Lannister armies were at his gates?
An explosion occurs outside.
TYRION: Probably not. Well, he told my brother and Jaime told me. He had caches of wildfire hidden under the Red Keep, the Guildhalls, the Sept of Baelor, all the major thoroughfares. He would have burned every one of his citizens. The loyal ones and the trators. Every man, woman, and child. That’s why Jaime killed him.
DAENERYS: This is entirely different.
TYRION: You’re talking about destroying cities. It’s not entirely different. I’d like to suggest an alternate approach.
The way I see it, if you take her mentality it's always been about burning things to get her way when angry. She's always been advised against it. However when she's not angry she does want to be a great ruler who is adored.
Last episode she was angry piled with more anger and more. This is the most devastated she's been without having an advisor to see her through and without a moment of happiness sandwiched in
One person's innocent is another person's guilty. It's all about perspective imo. She killed all the slave masters sure but they weren't all guilty. Didn't one dany kill a master, but his son told her that he was against slavery
Dany snapping lead to her not thinking and doing things that is horrid
I guess next episode we see if she regrets it when she calms down or if she continues on believing she did the right thing for the world
Jon should stop acting like an emasculated bitch and show his crazy auntie who wears the pants in that insectuous relationship. Varys was right, they bet on the wrong Targaryen.
Yeah in retrospect. And thats where im coming with the whole foreshadowing angle. For me, if you look at Dany, I think looking back, this was always going to happen. The way its been done of course could have been a bit of a slower burn this season, but I dont think its left field. And I dont think what she did is more shocking than what Roose did (shocking in the sense of it happening, not what she actually did)
BTW, given it does seem like Varys tries to poison Dany through food or drink, is it possible that Varys was actually writing letters not about Jons real heritage, but about Dany dying which he was preparing to send out?
But he burnt them as soon as he figured out he was done and caught (cos lets be honest, he was for the realm, so him leaving notes that Jon is the real ruler would be better for him even in the afterlife)
But he burnt them as soon as he figured out he was done and caught (cos lets be honest, he was for the realm, so him leaving notes that Jon is the real ruler would be better for him even in the afterlife)
Why is everyone calling it a twist? We were all saying at the end of episode four that she was going to go mad queen.
But everybody in those cities she was going to burn were evil or something. Either that or killing women and children in Essos is not as upsetting as killing women and children in Westeros.
Because it is a twist in the whole story . She was set up from the beginning to be our hero only to turn villain at the end . That's a twist
Because of the way it was structured. Her going bad ultimately came down to that one moment. Even within the episode it was set up to be a shock via the bells (she's gonna do something bad if the bells don't ring, the bells ring but in a twist she does the bad thing anyway).
As opposed to Walter White going bad, for example, which wasn't structured as a twist but rather a slow descent. So there wasn't a single moment where he went bad, it was a series of progressively worse actions that led him there. You could pick individual twists out within it but the basic premise of the show was that he was going bad. Whereas in GOT it was only set up as a possibility after they had already set up the character as an outright hero.
Not much of a twist really.
"haters" This thread is becoming worse than iPhone v Android, PS v Xbox, Messi v Ronaldo etc.
Also it wasn't a twist.
It’s not the why but the how. There is absolutely no problem if some people didn’t connect with it. Weird to get enraged if you enjoyed it yourself.
She should have started by burning Tyrion. Seriously, it's rather unbearable how stupid he has been the last two seasons.
"It was a mistake" *puppy eyes*
"It was a mistake" *puppy eyes*
Hater.
This thread is becoming worse than iPhone v Android, PS v Xbox, Messi v Ronaldo etc.
Also it wasn't a twist.
It would’ve made much more sense if her other dragon was killed over the city during the battle, and that was what sent her over the edge to burn the city down. But no, they had to have their shock moment in the episode before.
Instead they had her snap when the city surrendered
Yes, that would've been much better. It'd also mean I wouldn't have to read endless debates about whether fleets can hide behind islands from dragons and arguments regarding the ballistic capability of giant crossbows fired by shit pirates.
Yeah, this is my issue. I could see her doing something in a blind, stupid rage which kills people.
But jesus, she was flying low down in the streets and torching screaming crowds of women & children, like directly clearly aiming for them time and time again.
I get she's been through a lot, but I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. It takes a special kind of psychotic person to stare down crowds of innocent children and deliberately torch them, someone who is so far gone that there is nothing left .. which I just have not seen from Dany yet. Yes she's angry, yes she's lost a lot but I didn't see the kind of person who would unflinchingly go about committing mass murder. Greyworm made far more sense to me, he was slaughtering Lannister soldiers left right and centre, not women & kids.
Like this wasn't a spur of the moment decision where she just cracked and let out her anger, she kept going back for more, and even when the city was completely engulfed in flames she was still flying over and unleashing more on civilians.
I mean, I thought it was blatantly obvious once Tyrion mentioned the bells to her a million times that she wouldn't actually do what she promised him and would go mad queen instead. Maybe it was supposed to be twist but did anyone really not see it coming?
That was a deliberate act by the writers. It was showing that she didn't burn the city to win the battle. That the battle was over before she went on and burnt the city. It was showing that there was no justification for what she did.It would’ve made much more sense if her other dragon was killed over the city during the battle, and that was what sent her over the edge to burn the city down. But no, they had to have their shock moment in the episode before.
Instead they had her snap when the city surrendered
I also believe that the two main arcs of the show the WW and the GoT was done to prove that you don't need to manufacture evil humans are capable of far more evil than any big bad you can come up with.
I saw it coming all day long. If she hadn't gone mad before the end of the season I would have wondered what all the clues were about.
All the clues strewn about lavishly since.. the end of the previous episode
It was nothing else but laziness from the writers. And there’s no clever duality angle here, they’ve pretty clearly labelled her as the pantomime villain for the final episode.
So, do we think we'll see any regret from Daenerys next episode? Or just full on Mad Queen stony expressions as she declares it's what they deserved etc etc.
What about from Greyworm? Will he see the charred remains of mothers holding their children and show any regret?
Or are they just going to be full on baddies with no humanity remaining.
What about from Greyworm? Will he see the charred remains of mothers holding their children and show any regret?
Or are they just going to be full on baddies with no humanity remaining.
I agree, and it is because everything that mattered to her has been lost and undermined and all she has is the throne which she'll control through fear. I honestly don't get that this, amongst the many mad things that have happened in the last two series in particular, is getting the heat.