Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

afrocentricity said:
Yea, its been said a million times in this thread. Personally, if I didn't frequent this thread it wouldn't be my first thought (it still isn't).

I'm one of those that is fine with how the season has gone though...
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Do you think that this season so far has been evenly paced? I think there’s been a massive difference between the initial ‘Battle of Winterfell’ arc and the subsequent siege at Kings Landing. Episode four exemplified the difference well - opening with an extended sequence detailing the aftermath of the battle against the Night King, having plenty of smaller moments with the characters and generally taking it’s time. The second half of the episode sees a shift in approach to much broader storytelling.

I haven’t hated it. I enjoy the slower pace more though - it gives the bigger moments impact. Nothing is as well written anymore but some of the decisions made have been really poor.
 
Episodes 1 and 2 of this season were decent. Everything after was rushed and abysmal. Petition is funny, but if all it achieves is bring embarrassment to those two clowns then I’m fine with it.
 
One thing I don't really get, is even though that petition is incredibly dumb, it's why those who repeatedly say they are happy with it and cite "tits and dragons" can't see that they are also liking dumb.

Whilst never the best show ever, it certainly has noticeably changed over the past few seasons, it's been dumbed for tv more and more. It's like Marvel films, it's fine to like them and if you switch off your brain, they are enjoyable.

GoT is only enjoyable now if you switch off your brain and just enjoy the fire and dragons. Nothing wrong with that in isolation. But it didn't start that way. That's a huge reason why it's polarising now.

Again, it's fine to like it as it is now, I myself prefer it to the last one at least. But it's rather a weird situation for people to be having a pop at others who just expected, within reason, a little more. Something not quiet so obviously daft.
 
Redlambs said:
One thing I don't really get, is even though that petition is incredibly dumb, it's why those who repeatedly say they are happy with it and cite "tits and dragons" can't see that they are also liking dumb.

Whilst never the best show ever, it certainly has noticeably changed over the past few seasons, it's been dumbed for tv more and more. It's like Marvel films, it's fine to like them and if you switch off your brain, they are enjoyable.

GoT is only enjoyable now if you switch off your brain and just enjoy the fire and dragons. Nothing wrong with that in isolation. But it didn't start that way. That's a huge reason why it's polarising now.

Again, it's fine to like it as it is now, I myself prefer it to the last one at least. But it's rather a weird situation for people to be having a pop at others who just expected, within reason, a little more. Something not quiet so obviously daft.
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How patronising.
 
Dante said:
This is from 2016:


Daenerys is effectively her father (genetically speaking).

Her having a sudden psychotic break (like Joanna of Castile) following the loss of her best friend, her father figure, her army, her lover doesn't warrant 'dvelopment' as such. If you have a predisposition to psychosis, it can happen at any time.

It's a sudden snap because it was a sudden snap.

Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean it's not a vaild plot point.
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Just because you like it, it doesn't mean it wasn't terribly done. As has been mentioned a million times already but ignored by such posts, the issue isn't with it not being a valid outcome or not liking it, but rather how it was handled. I actually think this could have been a terrific transformation and given I never actually liked her as the star/saviour, I'm all for her breaking bad. But to pull it off they had to do a far better job than they did.

And as I alluded to before, the sudden/snap defensive really falls flat, as it can be used as a lame excuse for any poor writing really. Arya slaughters a thousand innocents and John in the next episode = she lost her mind, has been through so much trauma, lost her father, seen suffering, has a twisted cold side due to assassin training blah blah.
 
I find it quite humorous that the fanbois/masses who defended absolute shite writing for the past three full seasons (hell, even at times between S01 and S04 which relied on Martin’s material) are now spitting fire (excuse the pun) over Daenerys’ descent into madness as it’s not the conclusion they wanted. Discussion points about ‘pacing’, ‘payoffs’ etc. are just bluster, IMO. They just simply seem to be unhappy with the direction the writers took and are using annoying, overused terms like ‘arc’ to try justify their discontent.

Where were your reservations for the first seven seasons when Snow et al inconceivably escaped perilous situations time and time again, a trope so overused it diminished any semblance of tension or drama as you just knew the ‘hero’ would survive. The show wasn’t always like this. Your destiny in the world of Game of Thrones was always determined by how well you played the game. That whole premise went out the window many seasons ago yet the fanbois excused it every single time but now you’re up in arms over the plausibility of the storytelling? Give me a break.
 
I’m really not that excited for the finale tonight. My love for this show has been slowly eroded away since dragon date and then the decision to skip the reveal to Sansa and Arya.

The decisions made to miss key moments and fill them with rubbish is what has ruined this for me. Happy with where the story seems to be heading but it’s really fumbled and bumbled it’s way there like a drunk trying to get their key in the door.
 
What if the petition leads to announcement of season 9.. Tyrion Lannister v Gendry baratheon v Sansa Stark v Jon Targaryen v Ghost (leading army of wildlings). For the throne!!!
 
Redlambs said:
One thing I don't really get, is even though that petition is incredibly dumb, it's why those who repeatedly say they are happy with it and cite "tits and dragons" can't see that they are also liking dumb.

Whilst never the best show ever, it certainly has noticeably changed over the past few seasons, it's been dumbed for tv more and more. It's like Marvel films, it's fine to like them and if you switch off your brain, they are enjoyable.

GoT is only enjoyable now if you switch off your brain and just enjoy the fire and dragons. Nothing wrong with that in isolation. But it didn't start that way. That's a huge reason why it's polarising now.

Again, it's fine to like it as it is now, I myself prefer it to the last one at least. But it's rather a weird situation for people to be having a pop at others who just expected, within reason, a little more. Something not quiet so obviously daft.
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Not everybody that's happy with it does. As I stated in the other thread the nudity has dried up since the show became mainstream so it isn't accurate anyway.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Just because you like it, it doesn't mean it wasn't terribly done. As has been mentioned a million times already but ignored by such posts, the issue isn't with it not being a valid outcome or not liking it, but rather how it was handled. I actually think this could have been a terrific transformation and given I never actually liked her as the star/saviour, I'm all for her breaking bad. But to pull it off they had to do a far better job than they did.

And as I alluded to before, the sudden/snap defensive really falls flat, as it can be used as a lame excuse for any poor writing really. Arya slaughters a thousand innocents and John in the next episode = she lost her mind, has been through so much trauma, lost her father, seen suffering, has a twisted cold side due to assassin training blah blah.
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It's a sudden snap in terms of character change. But the writing has foreshadowed it since season 1 episode 1.

Daenerys' back-story makes it valid in a way that it wouldn't be for Arya.

There are times when a slow descent into madness makes sense. And times when a psychotic break does. There are a countless number of times in real-life when somebody with a predisposition to psychopathy - who has previously been able to function normally - has suddenly snapped and done something unconsionable.

As long as Daenerys was getting love and adoration and making progress towards her power grab, she was fine. Make her lose faith in those around her and her tethers to sanity have been foreshadowed to break for ages.

I never said I liked it. But it makes sense in the narrative and it follows the flow of the writing from the very start of the series. And there are real-life examples to back it up.
 
Dante said:
It's a sudden snap in terms of character change. But the writing has foreshadowed it since season 1 episode 1.

Daenerys' back-story makes it valid in a way that it wouldn't be for Arya.

There are times when a slow descent into madness makes sense. And times when a psychotic break does. There are a countless number of times in real-life when somebody with a predisposition to psychopathy - who has previously been able to function normally - has suddenly snapped and done something unconsionable.

As long as Daenerys was getting love and adoration and making progress towards her power grab, she was fine. Make her lose faith in those around her and her tethers to sanity have been foreshadowed to break for ages.

I never said I liked it. But it makes sense in the narrative and it follows the flow of the writing from the very start of the series. And there are real-life examples to back it up.
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It has been hinted at for ages I agree. Remember locking two people in the vault to die like that for instance? Cross her and you are likely to die. She can ruthless at any point. You could see it was going to happen before it did. I agree it could have been built up better but with 6 episodes I can live with it. When they emphasised the bells thing I saw it coming big time.
 
Buchan said:
I find it quite humorous that the fanbois/masses who defended absolute shite writing for the past three full seasons (hell, even at times between S01 and S04 which relied on Martin’s material) are now spitting fire (excuse the pun) over Daenerys’ descent into madness as it’s not the conclusion they wanted. Discussion points about ‘pacing’, ‘payoffs’ etc. are just bluster, IMO. They just simply seem to be unhappy with the direction the writers took and are using annoying, overused terms like ‘arc’ to try justify their discontent.

Where were your reservations for the first seven seasons when Snow et al inconceivably escaped perilous situations time and time again, a trope so overused it diminished any semblance of tension or drama as you just knew the ‘hero’ would survive. The show wasn’t always like this. Your destiny in the world of Game of Thrones was always determined by how well you played the game. That whole premise went out the window many seasons ago yet the fanbois excused it every single time but now you’re up in arms over the plausibility of the storytelling? Give me a break.
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Agree with this 100%

It's no coincidence that the people on the internet who spend all their free time coming with theories about the books and TV show (mostly the books from what I can see) are going the most salty about the direction that D&D are taking.

When the favourite fan-fiction of these fanbois fails to materialise, they give the writers shit for not doing what they wanted: "How dare Arya do this, how dare John not do that, how dare Daenerys not be the saviour, etc? It must be shit writing because it's not the same as my writing own on Reddit."

"They should have..." seems to be their favourite refrain.
 
The Cat said:
It has been hinted at for ages I agree. Remember locking two people in the vault to die like that for instance? Cross her and you are likely to die. She can ruthless at any point. You could see it was going to happen before it did. I agree it could have been built up better but with 6 episodes I can live with it. When they emphasised the bells thing I saw it coming big time.
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Exactly.

Unless the argument is that sudden pyschotic break are not allowed to happen at all in fiction, I don't see the problem. The lack of foreshadowing can hardly be an excuse.
 
Dante said:
Exactly.

Unless the argument is that sudden pyschotic break are not allowed to happen at all in fiction, I don't see the problem. The lack of foreshadowing can hardly be an excuse.
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Agreed. Just saw John Wick and he lost his mind over wife and dog. Went on a killing spree. Same shit different movie/show.
 
Watching ep5 again, and I really loved it. The woman and daughter that Arya tries to help, is the one that Hound and Arya push past and get stuck at the gate. The cuts between Arya and Hound during the explosions and cleganebowl were excellent. The camera shot and facial reactions of Dany before she went mental was great, compounded with Greyworm leading all to go batshit crazy. (and greyworm looking back to see Jon trying to stop it all was a good shot too). And added with Tyrion realising that Varys was right.
Cersei I dont think deserved a more epic death.

I just wish Euron wasnt given much time and a last battle. He should have been wiped out by the earlier dragon fire, or if he did wash up, a quick stab from him followed by a more brutal one by Jaime keeps them in the same position.


Redlambs said:
Don't get me wrong, I don't see how they could ever end it well to please most people anyway. I don't think even the books (if they ever come out) will manage that. But there is at least merit to the rushed argument.
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I think this is a big thing and you can see that illustrated on twitter and especially on here. The difference in opinion on how it should have been done shows that which ever way they went, whether its amount of time spent on a situation, a way a death occurred, etc, some folk would not have been happy or would have found a way to complain on how they should have done it (especially when you think they only had 6 eps this season)

To wrap it up, I reckon they wrote the finale, then worked backwards to get the key points across and filled in the rest. And thats all done in a limited time, whereas the original material isnt even finished, just because of the issues on writing yourself into a corner.

So everybody who signed the petition, are they gonna skip the finale tonight?
 
I think the problem is as it's been a massive series for so long everyone has got an idea in their head of how they want it to end. Now it's coming to an end and peoples endings they had in their heads aren't happening they're disappointed/angry.

I personally hope Ramsay Bolton didn't actually die and comes back with an army with sausages on their banners and slaughters everyone.
 
Dante said:
Agree with this 100%

It's no coincidence that the people on the internet who spend all their free time coming with theories about the books and TV show (mostly the books from what I can see) are going the most salty about the direction that D&D are taking.

When the favourite fan-fiction of these fanbois fails to materialise, they give the writers shit for not doing what they wanted: "How dare Arya do this, how dare John not do that, how dare Daenerys not be the saviour, etc? It must be shit writing because it's not the same as my writing own on Reddit."

"They should have..." seems to be their favourite refrain.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/ga...ew-the-bells-series-has-ruined-beyond-repair/

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...ow-arya-cersei-jaime-hbo-finale-a8910996.html

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/...on-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers


People need to stop acting like it's just weird theory crafting nerds who have disliked this season. It's pretty much being roundly criticised by critics as well (episode 5 in particular got a lot of stick for the poor writing and for 'limping' towards the finale) and whilst no doubt there are positive reviews, there are plenty of 'normal' people who dislike the season.

If you think the writing is fab and are enjoying it, fine. But it's really not fair to act like the critics just dislike it because things didn't go their way, when quite honestly the writing is just pretty objectively poor. It's illogical and unsatisfying, and that comes from somebody who doesn't really like any particular character and doesn't care whether Daenerys goes evil or Jon acts like an idiot. People are pretty disappointed from across the fanbase, from the die hard GoT fans who also loved the books, to the casual watcher. D&D have got the season wrong and it will go down that way. Everything is on fast fecking forward and we've experienced two great wars in the space of about five minutes.

If you like it, that's fine, great for you .. but not everybody has to enjoy shit like Euron climbing out of the sea for possibly the worst and most pointless game of thrones fight of all time.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/ga...ew-the-bells-series-has-ruined-beyond-repair/

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...ow-arya-cersei-jaime-hbo-finale-a8910996.html

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/...on-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers


People need to stop acting like it's just weird theory crafting nerds who have disliked this season. It's pretty much being roundly criticised by critics as well (episode 5 in particular got a lot of stick for the poor writing and for 'limping' towards the finale) and whilst no doubt there are positive reviews, there are plenty of 'normal' people who dislike the season.

If you think the writing is fab and are enjoying it, fine. But it's really not fair to act like the critics just dislike it because things didn't go their way, when quite honestly the writing is just pretty objectively poor. It's illogical and unsatisfying, and that comes from somebody who doesn't really like any particular character and doesn't care whether Daenerys goes evil or Jon acts like an idiot. People are pretty disappointed from across the fanbase, from the die hard GoT fans who also loved the books, to the casual watcher. D&D have got the season wrong and it will go down that way. Everything is on fast fecking forward and we've experienced two great wars in the space of about five minutes.

If you like it, that's fine, great for you .. but not everybody has to enjoy shit like Euron climbing out of the sea for possibly the worst and most pointless game of thrones fight of all time.
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:lol:
There are literally sections in those articles where the reviewers say things like:
I wrote a piece earlier this season about how I expected Dany to become the show’s final villain.
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It only confirms my post. Amateur-theorists are getting butthurt about being wrong, so they're taking it out on the people who've made it happen.

Going from fanbois to haters in a sudden snap, following a feeling of abandonment when things don't go the way they predicted after years of waiting... it almost sounds like the Daenerys story arc. Art imitating life.

Thanks for the backup.

And critics are hardly neutral arbiters. Their livliehood is based on theorising, researching and imparting that knowledge to readers. It's their job to point out these things, so they're as prone to being salty as anyone.
 
It’s not been perfect by any stretch. There have been lots of things you can legitimately objectively criticise but overall I think it’s been very enjoyable.

The problem is that there are lots of people unsatisfied with certain events who are very vocal about their displeasure. So when you have literally thousands upon thousands of people forensically critiquing every single frame of each episode and all highlighting what they are dissatisfied about, it creates an impression that they got every single little detail horribly wrong.

They didn’t. Overall it’s still a very good show that millions of people have been enjoying very much. If you’re lucky enough to not discuss it online you will be blissfully unaware of that and probably enjoy it more.
 
Dante said:
:lol:
There are literally sections in those articles where the reviewers say things like:


It only confirms my post. Amateur-theorists are getting butthurt about being wrong, so they're taking it out on the people who've made it happen.

Going from fanbois to haters in a sudden snap, following a feeling of abandonment when things don't go the way they predicted after years of waiting... it almost sounds like the Daenerys story arc. Art imitating life.

Thanks for the backup.
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So it's roundly disliked purely because people don't like the way it's gone, nothing to do with weak writing at all .. gotcha.

Hopefully we can just kinda forget about this season in the same way Daenerys just kinda forgot about the iron fleet.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
So it's roundly disliked purely because people don't like the way it's gone, nothing to do with weak writing at all .. gotcha.

Hopefully we can just kinda forget about this season in the same way Daenerys just kinda forgot about the iron fleet.
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It's not roundly disliked. Some people dislike it, most people enjoy it. Watch the reaction videos and see the viewing figures.

The thing that the dislikers often have in common is that their long-held fan theories are being undercut, as I've shown thanks to your links.

I'm fine with people disliking the show. I'm just pointing out the trends that are found amongst them. If you can shed those same issues, you might enjoy it too.
 
Dante said:
It's not roundly disliked. Some people dislike it, most people enjoy it. Watch the reaction videos and see the viewing figures.

The thing that the dislikers often have in common is that their long-held fan theories are being undercut, as I've shown thanks to your links.

I'm fine with people disliking the show. I'm just pointing out the trends that are found amongst them. If you can shed those same issues, you might enjoy it too.
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Why would that be relevant? People are watching it because they've invested years in to the show and it's the finale. It was always going to have insane viewing figures regardless of whether it was good or not.

Also, I question the 'most people enjoy it' line. It's the worst reviewed, worst received season of game of thrones thus far. How do you know most people have had a positive reaction to the season?

People have always held fan theories/fan favourites but still enjoyed when the show goes against that, game of thrones has always tried to subvert expectations but still managed to do it in a logical way, hence why previous seasons have been more enjoyed .. because the writing was better. The characters this season have been handled clumsily and have gone against the way they've been written for 8 seasons, Tyrion in particular has been absolutely butchered with no particular explanation. Some of the people who dislike it will have fan theories, but there are plenty of reviewers out there who are simply pointing out all the many holes and fallacies which have existed this season.

I've enjoyed the season overall (visually it's been a masterpiece, the music has been amazing too so it's still a fun watch) but I also recognise that the dialogue and writing isn't on par with previous seasons, so I understand why so many are angry and disappointed because it doesn't really feel like the same show anymore. You can both accept that the show has declined massively in certain respects while still enjoying it for what it is, and that's where I stand. The only episode this season that I've not enjoyed watching was four, and that was because it was legitimately terrible television (in my opinion) and not because WAA DRAGON DYED.

But whatever, it doesn't really matter. It's a TV show and people are always going to have different opinions about this kinda stuff, I just don't like the way anybody who criticises the writing instantly has to be a fanboy who is just crying because his characters didn't go the way he wanted.
 
ManRed said:
What if the petition leads to announcement of season 9.. Tyrion Lannister v Gendry baratheon v Sansa Stark v Jon Targaryen v Ghost (leading army of wildlings). For the throne!!!
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You are going to be disappointed
 
On a more positive note the soundtrack for Episode 5 was once more amazeballs. The tense buildup music before the dragon descended upon the city was incredible, Ramin is an absolute genius.

Whatever happens in the finale I'm confident he'll nail the music!
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Why would that be relevant? People are watching it because they've invested years in to the show and it's the finale. It was always going to have insane viewing figures regardless of whether it was good or not.

Also, I question the 'most people enjoy it' line. It's the worst reviewed, worst received season of game of thrones thus far. How do you know most people have had a positive reaction to the season?

People have always held fan theories/fan favourites but still enjoyed when the show goes against that, game of thrones has always tried to subvert expectations but still managed to do it in a logical way, hence why previous seasons have been more enjoyed .. because the writing was better. The characters this season have been handled clumsily and have gone against the way they've been written for 8 seasons, Tyrion in particular has been absolutely butchered with no particular explanation. Some of the people who dislike it will have fan theories, but there are plenty of reviewers out there who are simply pointing out all the many holes and fallacies which have existed this season.

I've enjoyed the season overall (visually it's been a masterpiece, the music has been amazing too so it's still a fun watch) but I also recognise that the dialogue and writing isn't on par with previous seasons, so I understand why so many are angry and disappointed because it doesn't really feel like the same show anymore. You can both accept that the show has declined massively in certain respects while still enjoying it for what it is, and that's where I stand. The only episode this season that I've not enjoyed watching was four, and that was because it was legitimately terrible television (in my opinion) and not because WAA DRAGON DYED.

But whatever, it doesn't really matter. It's a TV show and people are always going to have different opinions about this kinda stuff, I just don't like the way anybody who criticises the writing instantly has to be a fanboy who is just crying because his characters didn't go the way he wanted.
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I agree with this, while regardless of the ending or how an episode pans out there will always be people disappointed. Can't please them all, this season of Got has been disappointing despite some epic moments and as a spectacle few shows come close, if any in all honesty.
It just feels extremely rushed, characters quality has plummented and some of the comical moments put in just for the spectacle or too even the odds
Yes lets send all our light calavry headfirst into an enemy we cannot see, with no scouts.


Give Dany the power to respawn her Unsullied and Dothraki despite it being pretty clear they were massacred almost to a man by the wights..
Plot armour galoreeeee

I'm not really fussed at how many characters went, Dany going crazy could happen just the way it was done felt poor and rushed.
What if Rha dies to a surviving ballistai whilst the bells are ringing with Jon on him. Dany think's Jon is dead, see's Rha dead.. sees red and boom.
No shite Euron invisible fleet bullshite hitting 3 1 in a million shots to 'even the odds', ease of destruction of King's landing defences much more believable

Can't complain about the spectacle, just some of the decision making and writing has been comically bad.
 
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Why can't United fans get as angry at the Glazers and Ed as this fan base :devil:

It will be interesting to see how fans react to the very last episode if it all goes down as expected.
 
I just hope they give an explanation of Bran's Three Eye Raven stuff. If they don't that's almost as bad as The Lost let down.
 
Roosney said:
I just hope they give an explanation of Bran's Three Eye Raven stuff. If they don't that's almost as bad as The Lost let down.
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I'm sure it'll get as much pay off as all the other stuff in the show like The Prince That Was Promised and BoJaqen Horseman.
 
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