80 minutes.
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I haven't enjoyed anything about Euron but I'm not going to let him destroy my enjoyment of the show.
I have enjoyed most of the writing this season. The character interactions have been really well done in my opinion. All of Tyrion and Jaime's interactions have been first class. The sceen around the fire in E2 was brilliant. The entirety of the feast in the Great Hall after the battle was well done.
The two battles were epic. Were all of the tactics in the Battle for Winterfell spot on no but I would have had to make myself concentrate on that to make me hate the episode. I thought the way the episode played with your emotions was first class. It dragged you further and further towards hopelessness until you knew the only way for them to survive was for the Night King to die. When Arya jumped at the NK it was a yes moment to be followed by a Oh Shite moment when he caught her by the neck. Then the release of emotion when she did the hand switch with the dagger. Personally I would have had to be really nitpicking to make me not love that episode. I could have done it but why would I want to.
The same with the battle for King's Landing. I had massive issues with Euron getting that many deadly shots on Rhaegal so had none that he had problems managing to pin down Dany in the King's Landing battle.
As for Dany burning King's Landing. She was full of rage going into the battle. If the Lanister troops hadn't surrendered when they did she might have been able to take out all her rage on them and Cersei. The Bell ringing didn't sate her anger but build it further to the point where she completely lost control.
The thing is even if she had burned the civilians without the surrender some people would have said she was justified and that she hadn't gone mad. They needed the bells to show the people firmly in Dany's camp that yes she is lost.
There wasn't anything that I could nitpick out of this episode apart from the Euron Jaime battle.
The cinematography was excellent. Some of the scenes were exquisite. The oneshot of Arya trying to get out of the city was beautiful. The cut scenes between the Hound and Arya was superbly done. It showed the carnage of war at it's worst.
Cersei going out with a roof falling on her head was quite poetic as she had literally brought the roof down on Margery and all the male Tyrells. She could have jumped from the same window that Tommen went out of but I preferred to see her go out snivelling and pleading for her life.
I have enjoyed most of the writing this season. The character interactions have been really well done in my opinion. All of Tyrion and Jaime's interactions have been first class. The sceen around the fire in E2 was brilliant. The entirety of the feast in the Great Hall after the battle was well done.
The two battles were epic. Were all of the tactics in the Battle for Winterfell spot on no but I would have had to make myself concentrate on that to make me hate the episode. I thought the way the episode played with your emotions was first class. It dragged you further and further towards hopelessness until you knew the only way for them to survive was for the Night King to die. When Arya jumped at the NK it was a yes moment to be followed by a Oh Shite moment when he caught her by the neck. Then the release of emotion when she did the hand switch with the dagger. Personally I would have had to be really nitpicking to make me not love that episode. I could have done it but why would I want to.
The same with the battle for King's Landing. I had massive issues with Euron getting that many deadly shots on Rhaegal so had none that he had problems managing to pin down Dany in the King's Landing battle.
As for Dany burning King's Landing. She was full of rage going into the battle. If the Lanister troops hadn't surrendered when they did she might have been able to take out all her rage on them and Cersei. The Bell ringing didn't sate her anger but build it further to the point where she completely lost control.
The thing is even if she had burned the civilians without the surrender some people would have said she was justified and that she hadn't gone mad. They needed the bells to show the people firmly in Dany's camp that yes she is lost.
There wasn't anything that I could nitpick out of this episode apart from the Euron Jaime battle.
The cinematography was excellent. Some of the scenes were exquisite. The oneshot of Arya trying to get out of the city was beautiful. The cut scenes between the Hound and Arya was superbly done. It showed the carnage of war at it's worst.
Cersei going out with a roof falling on her head was quite poetic as she had literally brought the roof down on Margery and all the male Tyrells. She could have jumped from the same window that Tommen went out of but I preferred to see her go out snivelling and pleading for her life.
We need a quick poll here to guess who is going to sit on the Iron Throne.
Yeah I'm not holding my breath either but I think we've spent about a full season on that story line so at least we should know what/where/when was he doing in episode 3.
They’ve already done this though, haven’t they? He is basically Wikipedia... is there any more to it?
I don't think there's any need for any further explanation beyond what they've already given? So I think you'll be dissapointed.
Believe!
Cheers.
No matter what happens, I survived Lost's ending so I'm sure I'll survive this..
Folk are moaning about Daenerys choosing to attack random crowds of civilians at the point at which the city had surrendered. The moment was not well done at all - it was not a natural turn of events. Her choosing to ignore the bells and take to the air again was perfectly fine. I thought she would go straight for the Red Keep, and was miffed and taken out of the story a bit when she just picked a random street and set it ablaze.
The ensuing panic, the violence as the soldiers took up arms again and sequences with Arya running through the streets were all fantastically well done. You got a real sense of what that would have been like. It was thrilling - but it came off the back of a moment/ decision which didn’t ring true.
If it follows the leaks (and it as been accurate so far)we know who it may be.
GRRM wrote the unrealistic depiction of the Mad King wanting to burn everyone. The show's writers had that to fall back upon.
You're a brave man inviting guesses or predictions the day of the finale when we know details are floating around the darker edges of the internet.
No we don't. Just go to r/freefolk if you want 'polls' and 'predictions'.
Please don’t.
A) Jaqen the horse
B) Jaqen the horse
C) It's not the horse, so we all sign that petition.
B) Jaqen the horse
C) It's not the horse, so we all sign that petition.
Whilst I understand some criticism, just a few things to note
the decision to send the dothraki looks like it wasnt one that was made beforehand. It was made by the Dothraki themselves once their weapons were lit, which was indicated by Jorah, who was with them, being left behind and trying to catch up. Thats how I read it.
Also the part about respawning, if you watch when Jorah returns, theres a bunch of Dothraki returning with him. Its not out of the question that a whole lot more returned across the line (and not the just the action shot where Jorah was). though I think having a wider shot of them returning would have cleared that up.
And a whole load of Unsullied were in the castle not just left outside for the Wights to destroy.
Saw someone make this same point in The Sunday Times and I half agree.
Some fans seem to be complaining about the show making the "wrong" choices, as if there's a "right" choice other than whatever D&D decide to do. It's their show and their story. If you don't like their choices then that's too bad, feel free to stop watching. Or read the books. Or, write your own stories where the twists will all pan out exactly as you like. The writers here don't owe anyone any particular reveals, arcs or endings nor are there "correct" ones other than whatever they decide.
For example, people complaining that Jon should have killed the NK instead of Arya. In their head, maybe, but what happens in their head doesn't count for shit. It's that kind of criticism that crosses over into entitled fan nerdery because it's less to do with the quality of what they're given (though it may be couched in that way) and more to do with not being given what they want.
However, you can't get away from the fact that a lot (in fact the majority) of criticism is simply down to people thinking that what they've been given wasn't written or executed well enough. That's reflected in the fact that recent episodes have been heavily criticised not just by fans but also by professional critics with no skin in the game. Frankly I don't know how anyone could argue that there hasn't been straightforward bad writing not just in this season but across several seasons at this point.
Though when you see stupid online petitions getting over a million signatures it's more tempting (and fun) to focus on the whiney, entitled, man-child fanboys instead.
Contrary to how some people want to portray dissatisfied fans of the show, I have not had a preferred outcome that I've been looking forward to. I've just been disappointed with the clunky writing and strange pacing.
Cinematically, it has been excellent.
As a life-long horror fan, I expected the Night King ending, as it parallels the werewolf bloodline solution of old movies. It had to happen because that army was so overpowered, if it didn't have that Achilles heel, there would only be one possible outcome.
I think that they could have sacrificed a main character or two, in homage to the author's track record.
If I was to be upset at a character's arc, it would be Tyrion's. One of the best, unlikely heroes, with the best lines and delivery, has turned into a bumbling extra.
I've stuck with it and enjoyed the ride, but now I just want it to be over. I'm still anxious to see the last episode, just for closure.
Unfortunately, I think the opportunity for grand cinematography has been used up, so this will be an emotion/machination based episode. Nothing for the writers to hide behind, and their weakness will be laid bare.
It's been a great ride.
For those wondering how people can get so worked up about the drop in quality, and 'why keep watching?' you need to revisit some of the character interactions and shock scenes to remind yourselves of how good this used to be.
I'm going to have to watch it in the morning as I'm on nights tonight, so I'll have to avoid this thread from 2am onwards. Then I'll read 40 pages of wailing and lolz tomorrow night.
The car chase is supposed to be epic!
Cinematically, it has been excellent.
As a life-long horror fan, I expected the Night King ending, as it parallels the werewolf bloodline solution of old movies. It had to happen because that army was so overpowered, if it didn't have that Achilles heel, there would only be one possible outcome.
I think that they could have sacrificed a main character or two, in homage to the author's track record.
If I was to be upset at a character's arc, it would be Tyrion's. One of the best, unlikely heroes, with the best lines and delivery, has turned into a bumbling extra.
I've stuck with it and enjoyed the ride, but now I just want it to be over. I'm still anxious to see the last episode, just for closure.
Unfortunately, I think the opportunity for grand cinematography has been used up, so this will be an emotion/machination based episode. Nothing for the writers to hide behind, and their weakness will be laid bare.
It's been a great ride.
For those wondering how people can get so worked up about the drop in quality, and 'why keep watching?' you need to revisit some of the character interactions and shock scenes to remind yourselves of how good this used to be.
I'm going to have to watch it in the morning as I'm on nights tonight, so I'll have to avoid this thread from 2am onwards. Then I'll read 40 pages of wailing and lolz tomorrow night.
The car chase is supposed to be epic!
Yea that wasn't bad.
Bojaqen Sher'gar is better.
Foreshadowing and hinting isn't a replacement for good writing.
And yes. Sudden out of the blue and illogical things happen in real life. Most people don't find it entertaining to watch in a television series as we tend to want pieces of entertainment to represent the fascinating parts of reality not the out of the blue/random rubbish of reality. If breaking bad reflected a jarring turn of state some dude went through, it would make for really poor television. As did this twist with Dany.
Anyway it is what it is. People being this disappointed shows that they have totally screwed it up.
Bollocks to it I've not done it before but I'm gonna set my alarm for 1.30 I'm not taking the risk of reading spoilers which will be everywhere tomorrow
Can't watch the final episode until tomorrow evening and I'm pretty sure some twat at work will spoil it by talking about in my vicinity. Seriously considering taking leave off from work just for this.
Who would you list as your top 10 warriors/duelists in game of thrones? I would limit the contestants to their abilities in the present in the show, so Young Robert baratheon and Arthur Dayne fx don't count neither Rhaegar.
I think mine would be
1. Jaime Lannister(based on his reputation as the finest swordsman in the 7 kingdoms, killed 10 men in battle against Robb)
2. Khal Drogo (looked like an absolute beast)
3. Oberyn Martell(Took down the mountain with ease lost because of his cockiness)
4. Ser Barristan Selmy (Rated as one of the best ever warriors in the 7 kingdoms, only his age keeps him from being higher)
5. Sandor Clegane
6. Gregor Clegane
7. Brienne
8. Jon Snow
9. Ser Loras
10. Bronn
Technically Arya could be nr 1
I think mine would be
1. Jaime Lannister(based on his reputation as the finest swordsman in the 7 kingdoms, killed 10 men in battle against Robb)
2. Khal Drogo (looked like an absolute beast)
3. Oberyn Martell(Took down the mountain with ease lost because of his cockiness)
4. Ser Barristan Selmy (Rated as one of the best ever warriors in the 7 kingdoms, only his age keeps him from being higher)
5. Sandor Clegane
6. Gregor Clegane
7. Brienne
8. Jon Snow
9. Ser Loras
10. Bronn
Technically Arya could be nr 1
Have you seen Michael Douglas in Falling Down? It’s very good. Although it sounds as though you might find it “too jarring”. What with him losing the plot over the course of a single afternoon.
Arthur Dayne's abilities were present in the show though, at the Tower of Joy. Fought 4 guys and made it look easy before being stabbed in the back.
Yeah I'm not sure compared the narrative of a single contained film is the right thing there.
Anyway, as has tried to be pointed out multiple times, but continually ignored by some people, the biggest problem guys on here seem to have is NOT what they think should happen, but HOW what happen was presented. That's fair. For example, I don't care who ends up on the throne tonight, I just want it to be entertaining and well written. Obviously some would be better than others, and it might end up laughable, but I'm not going into it with a favourite at all.
Anyway, as has tried to be pointed out multiple times, but continually ignored by some people, the biggest problem guys on here seem to have is NOT what they think should happen, but HOW what happen was presented. That's fair. For example, I don't care who ends up on the throne tonight, I just want it to be entertaining and well written. Obviously some would be better than others, and it might end up laughable, but I'm not going into it with a favourite at all.
Maybe it was better done? If it was, I wouldn't mind checking out this film. But the particular manner in which they portrayed it was, IMO, poor. It's not even an anomaly as it's line with this season and good chunks of the last few.
I meant in the current timespan that the shows main story takes place in. Arthur Dayne is dead by the time the main story starts.
Agreed
Your no.5 was defeated by your no.7
Because he was weakened by infection.
Arya makes a point an episode earlier that the Hound is walking 'a lot slower' than usual because of that, so the fact he was able to nearly beat Brienne under those conditions would suggest that at his best he would beat her.
Ok. I'd forgotten that.
Arthur Dayne was the greatest by some distance.
I saw an interview where GRRM answered some fan questions, and one was who he would choose as a champion in trial by combat - he mentioned Jaime if he had two hands but if it was anyone dead or alive, it would be Dayne.
Obviously, but he was dead by the time the main story starts, otherwise he would be nr 1 and Robert and Rhaegar would be in there as well.
Was Rob a swordsman? Thought he bummed his hammer. Rhaegar also lost to a hammer I'm assuming.
That's true. Could be argued that Sandor wasn't at full strength with all the wounds and beatings he'd taken over the years. I wouldn't have any problem with anyone putting Brienne above him since she bested Loras in a tourney and beated the hound.
She only beats Sandor in the show though. Never happened in the books
True Robert used a hammer, but he was still a melee fighter.
The reason why I find it difficult to put Arya in there is because her main advantage is being an assasin with magical powers. However due to her being to spar pretty easily with Brienne, she could easily be in there. I guess I just hesitate to put her in there since she's a little girl