Probably because it’s a broadly accepted truth that being in charge, and ultimately responsible for the consequences of things, is usually a vote drain the long run, even in a non-shambolic party, whereas being in opposition, and ultimately concerned with holding the government to task, and proposing or promising good sounding things, is usually a vote gain in the long run, even in a shambolic party.... the fact that one of the worst governments in history is losing votes is not really a surprise. It’s very obvious why, and the reasons are multifold. That the official opposition is also losing votes, despite not having tangibly done anything harmful, and with a seemingly open goal of just having to propose an attractive alternative to a literal hellscape, is understandably a more interesting story. In many quarters, at least.
UK European Elections 2019 | Results Tonight from 10pm
- Thread starter altodevil
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Probably because it’s a broadly accepted truth that being in charge, and ultimately responsible for the consequences of things, is usually a vote drain the long run, even in a non-shambolic party, whereas being in opposition, and ultimately concerned with holding the government to task, and proposing or promising good sounding things, is usually a vote gain in the long run, even in a shambolic party.... the fact that one of the worst governments in history is losing votes is not really a surprise. It’s very obvious why, and the reasons are multifold. That the official opposition is also losing votes, despite not having tangibly done anything harmful, and with a seemingly open goal of just having to propose an attractive alternative to a literal hellscape, is understandably a more interesting story. In many quarters, at least.
The one result i cared about really, thank feck as that would have been a dreadful day for politics. Still 38k votes.....
Still, the nazi pug guy's victory begs a lot of questions. uhuh
Yes - Brexit's a swindle.Roland said:
Because Labours issues are just more compelling right now. They're getting slaughtered in the urban hubs by the Lib Dems and Greens, mauled by the SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales, and butchered by the Brexit Party everywhere else.
The whole Remain vs Leave, Islington vs Sunderland voter base is such an insoluble and compelling dilemma for them when it comes to drawing up policy for a general election.
Eh? He's like the 4th candidate for UKIP in Scotland, who got 0 seats.
Those things are true and if not sorted could cause significant losses in vote share but they don't change the fact the Tories look dead and near impossible to fix.
BBC Projection
Brexit - 32%
Lib Dem - 20%
Labour - 14%
Green - 12%
Conservative - 9%
SNP - 4%
CUK - 3%
UKIP - 3%
Plaid - 1%
Remind me who apparently won tonight?
Brexit - 32%
Lib Dem - 20%
Labour - 14%
Green - 12%
Conservative - 9%
SNP - 4%
CUK - 3%
UKIP - 3%
Plaid - 1%
Remind me who apparently won tonight?
Yougov, according to @Ubik.BBC Projection
Brexit - 32%
Lib Dem - 20%
Labour - 14%
Green - 12%
Conservative - 9%
SNP - 4%
CUK - 3%
UKIP - 3%
Plaid - 1%
Remind me who apparently won tonight?
what i find interesting is that both main parties have to now make huge changes in order to try and reconnect with the electorate. For the Conservatives it is actually fairly simple as they are electing a new leader which in theory will help unite them. With Labour they still have the same problem that they had during the 2017 GE, in that even their own party struggle to get behind Corbyn. If he starts backing a second vote which is the way i think he is going to go his party will go into meltdown, if he sticks with his middle stance, the electorate go into meltdown, if he backs a no deal brexit, the party members will leave in droves.
Look it's a big deal for some.
BBC said:
It's also a result that basically contradicts a lot of the arguments they've been making over the past few years. Until now they've been able to say that not going against Brexit was okay because Remainers would ultimately stick with them anyway. And whenever their strategy was criticised it was commonplace for Corbynites to mock the Lib Dems poor polling. But now it's fairly clear that the Lib Dems are actually doing alright, that doesn't work now either. This is a party led by someone whose entire mantra was to have conviction instead of sitting in the middle all the time, who have spent the past few years sitting firmly on the middle on by far the country's most important issue. No wonder they're being punished.
34% turnout doesn't suggest brexit is on everyones mind
It just suggests to me that most people quite sensibly realised there were better uses of their time than taking part in a glorified opinion poll.
Across the country as a whole it's not, no - by and large people are getting on with their everyday lives. But a No Deal Brexit would clearly be catastrophic and in that regard the mood of those who are voting has the power to sway what we end up doing in the long-term. The voting electorate are certainly getting more and more polarised either way.
...When - no matter what the result - the narrative would be: 'This shows that the British people demand Brexit'.
We should have had a general election, an EU referendum and the European Elections all at the same time (Thursday).
Sort this out once and for all
So the country is still very much divided on Brexit...great.BBC Projection
Brexit - 32%
Lib Dem - 20%
Labour - 14%
Green - 12%
Conservative - 9%
SNP - 4%
CUK - 3%
UKIP - 3%
Plaid - 1%
Remind me who apparently won tonight?
We'd somehow end up electing a Lib Dem government with a No Deal referendum result.
Yup
The actual majority of people, I suspect, are too disenchanted or bored to have bothered to vote.
Change UK is the Fyre Festival of the UK Political Parties
It's ok - they're going to merge with Coachella.
Also on the direction of travel since last time - 2014 Tories & UKIP vote share of 50% (43 seats out of 73), now Tories, UKIP and Brexit with 44% (will likely end up with 33 seats).BBC Projection
Brexit - 32%
Lib Dem - 20%
Labour - 14%
Green - 12%
Conservative - 9%
SNP - 4%
CUK - 3%
UKIP - 3%
Plaid - 1%
Remind me who apparently won tonight?
Change UK is the Fyre Festival of UK Political Parties
I knew it reminded me of something! That is so true.
We shouldn't forget how appalling this night is for the Tories.
This is their worst performance as a party going back to 1832.
If this was a first-past-the-post election, they would not have taken a single seat.
Honestly, I think the only way out of this mess is to create a cross-party and cross-house Brexit committee, made up of Brexiteers from the Tories, Labour, and the Brexit Party (Nigel Farage MEP BREX, Stephen Barclay MP CON, Dan Hannan MEP CON, Boris Johnson MP, Dominic Raab MP CON, Michael Gove PM CON, Jacob Rees Mogg MP CON, Frank Field MP LAB, Kate Hoey MP LAB, etc) have them design the best Brexit they can come up with...
And then put that to the people in a second referendum.
High risk strategy but we need to solve this and move on.
I honestly think that only happens when we leave with no deal and everyone involved goes down with the ship. No one is going to budge until they see the results.
Amazing night. Though... I believe this ends in a very right-wing Tory MP, stalemate in Parliament and then...? Right back where we are?
This is a lot grimmer than it sounds when you consider the UK is one of the biggest countries in Europe and thus allows for a lot more representation.
Out of interest, when's the last national election where neither the Tories or Labour finished top two? Has it ever happened since Labour became a party?
A vote of no confidence, then a constitutional crisis where Boris refuses to dissolve parliament, due to the fixed parliament act, and it's up to Lizzy to decide whether or not she has to intervene and ask Corbyn to try and form a government.
Either way we have to behead her for interfering.