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If Torygeddon's yours it's a bloody good one. Actually it's a good one anyway.
"Brexit was caused by the wind"Ffs, Klopp has an opinion about everything:
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I don't get what he's doing at all. He had a large proportion of the country in the palm of his hand and he must know most of his supporters would be anti-Brexit.
I do still think he'd be the best PM out of the options we have by far, Brexit aside (although that's a pretty big deal), but it's frustrating to think that and have him be so poor at going for it.
"Brexit was caused by the wind"
Meh I'll stick my head in the sand and claim that's still just posturing to avoid Tories claiming we're a remain party.
I don't care what he says as long as when the time comes Labour push a public vote which I'm sure they will. There isn't going to be any movement until a new Tory leader is elected anyway.
Labour IS a remain party if you actually consider the overwhelming majority opinions of the members and voters. The fact Corybn won’t embrace that is killing his party.
The last two Labour manifestos say otherwise, one for the UK and one for the EU. If you voted Labour in either you voted for Brexit, there's no way round that.Labour IS a remain party if you actually consider the overwhelming majority opinions of the members and voters. The fact Corybn won’t embrace that is killing his party.
Labour IS a remain party if you actually consider the overwhelming majority opinions of the members and voters. The fact Corybn won’t embrace that is killing his party.
Corbyn or not, there is no option but to vote Labour.
The alternative are the Tories who brought us to Brexit and who have gutted the Welfare state.
For Remainers the Lib Dems, SNP and Greens (in some areas) are all now valid options.
Personally I wouldn't expel people for talking about voting for other parties or at the very least make it difficult to do so. But really it's hard for me to take this case seriously as it's firstly Alastair Campbell openly being a arsehole on telly and then the ''outrage'' is coming from people who have tried in the past to get rid of members on mass.Where do you draw the line out of interest?
Plenty have posted about it on Twitter. Would you be in favour of expelling them?
Labour IS a remain party if you actually consider the overwhelming majority opinions of the members and voters. The fact Corybn won’t embrace that is killing his party.
I put his deliberate dishonesty down to a fear that saying what he really thinks might lose him votes. The literal opposite of having the courage of his convictions. It’s just semantics though. I can’t help taking the most insulting interpretation possible because I’m furious at the way he’s facilitated the Brexit Torygeddon.
It isn't a remain party, the output of party conference has been very clear about that. They're a soft brexit party, they might not truly believe that's attainable and think it'll end up at people's vote anyway but first and foremost they've agreed to respect the result.
It is damaging the party and I've long argued that was going to happen but so does coming out for remain perhaps more so. It's a game of which is worse short term and long term. If Labour had gone full on remain they'd have certainly done better in the european elections but i doubt it would see them elected in a GE.
A remain win at a GE requires a small amount of leavers voting Labour still.
Pete Willsman is member of the NEC and had since been suspended
He may just be being loyal to old friends, he may be anti-semitic himself, or something else he can't say for some reason, or a combination of two or more. I don't know, none of us know, but by doing nothing he's inviting people to think whatever they want and he's no defence against that. No leadership whatsoever.Struggle to understand this logic of Corbyn's currently. He's quick to expel Alistair Campbell from the party, and then you get guys like Willsman who makes explicit comments and he's suspended. Ridiculous.
No leadership whatsoever.
To be fair, it's not up to Corbyn.Struggle to understand this logic of Corbyn's currently. He's quick to expel Alistair Campbell from the party, and then you get guys like Willsman who makes explicit comments and he's suspended. Ridiculous.
It isn't a remain party, the output of party conference has been very clear about that. They're a soft brexit party, they might not truly believe that's attainable and think it'll end up at people's vote anyway but first and foremost they've agreed to respect the result.
It is damaging the party and I've long argued that was going to happen but so does coming out for remain perhaps more so. It's a game of which is worse short term and long term. If Labour had gone full on remain they'd have certainly done better in the european elections but i doubt it would see them elected in a GE.
A remain win at a GE requires a small amount of leavers voting Labour still.
To be fair, it's not up to Corbyn.
Sweet square's role is to defend Corbyn no matter how well or badly he does his job so you won't get a reply.Where do you draw the line out of interest?
Plenty have posted about it on Twitter. Would you be in favour of expelling them?
Sweet square's role is to defend Corbyn no matter how well or badly he does his job so you won't get a reply.
Personally I wouldn't expel people for talking about voting for other parties or at the very least make it difficult to do so. But really it's hard for me to take this case seriously as it's firstly Alastair Campbell openly being a arsehole on telly and then the ''outrage'' is coming from people who have tried in the past to get rid of members on mass.
Personally I wouldn't expel people for talking about voting for other parties or at the very least make it difficult to do so. But really it's hard for me to take this case seriously as it's firstly Alastair Campbell openly being a arsehole on telly and then the ''outrage'' is coming from people who have tried in the past to get rid of members on mass.
Me too!
Its a classic case of deflection, the remaining Blairite still left in the public persona of Labour, Alistair Campbell's brought his old media past to the fore and deflecting attention, he's getting the headlines off the very poor showing of the Labour party in the EU elections and onto himself and a few others who are joining in with the "I'm Spartacus" shouts, "I voted Lib-Dem; Greens, SNP, PC, whatever, kick me out too...please kick me out too, please."
I think it's fair we treat the situation as seriously as Campbell is, which is not very serious at all.Me too!
Its a classic case of deflection, the remaining Blairite still left in the public persona of Labour, Alistair Campbell's brought his old media past to the fore and deflecting attention, he's getting the headlines off the very poor showing of the Labour party in the EU elections and onto himself and a few others who are joining in with the "I'm Spartacus" shouts, "I voted Lib-Dem; Greens, SNP, PC, whatever, kick me out too...please kick me out too, please."
Who likes Alistair Campbell ? Also its not a rejection of the politics of someone like Campbell(That rejection happened in 2015)its getting rid of a party member for going around on national television saying he's not going to vote for the party(Not something I really agree with).I'm not sure how Labour expects to gain power without the votes of the sort of people who agree with Alistair Campbell. In fact to form a government they will need all their votes, and on top of that persuade a fair number or Tory voters to switch to them as well. As a plan 'we hate you but please vote for us anyway' seems somewhat flawed to me.
Another issue is that..........well a lot people who describe themselves as liberals are actually far more to the right than previous generations, to the point where they are basically thatchites with a liberal social outlook. The evidence for this being the only people offering such things state investment in the economy, nationalisation, worker rights e.g. basic social democracy are the far left of the Labour Party. John Maynard Keynes the guy who saved liberalism in the 20th century now looks like a radical lefty. Really todays Labour Party is a no brainer for of course anyone on the left but liberals as well(I would even include business owners). Yes there's little bits of leftism in the party platform but overall the ''crazed marxist'' labour party is throwing one hell of a life line to western capitalism.
Less than 40% of people voted in the recent election and it's only the one poll(It's wasn't that along labour were 5 point clear of the tories)Hmm. A little bit romantic there. The challenge is that the voting public is clearly in a binary status currently, and the problem with Labour is that its not pinning any flag to a mast, let alone even informing people on what direction they want to take. Which is why they're so far behind in polls, and probably one of the reasons why a lot of the core Labour vote moved to Lib Dems in the recent election.
Currently Labour are not doing anything in terms of a life line, heck they're not even providing proper opposition to government through extremely weak leadership.
I doubt it will really matter even if true that Marxists have little influence in Labour, come the next election the Tory machine will claim a massive hidden Marxist agenda anyway, and given just about everyone now agrees Corbyn is a proven liar on Brexit then Labour are going to find it damned hard to prove they're not lying about that as well.
- Another issue is that..........well a lot people who describe themselves as liberals are actually far more to the right than previous generations, to the point where they are basically thatchites with a liberal social outlook. The evidence for this being the only people offering such things state investment in the economy, nationalisation, worker rights e.g. basic social democracy are the far left of the Labour Party. John Maynard Keynes the guy who saved liberalism in the 20th century now looks like a radical lefty. Really todays Labour Party is a no brainer for of course anyone on the left but liberals as well(I would even include business owners). Yes there's little bits of leftism in the party platform but overall the ''crazed marxist'' labour party is throwing one hell of a life line to western capitalism.
Less than 40% of people voted in the recent election and it's only the one poll(It's wasn't that along labour were 5 point clear of the tories)
You could right but I'll give it more time to see if there's been a long last change of labour voters to the lib dems.
Still this take away the point that liberal are offering nothing.I doubt it will really matter even if true that Marxists have little influence in Labour, come the next election the Tory machine will claim a massive hidden Marxist agenda anyway, and given just about everyone now agrees Corbyn is a proven liar on Brexit then Labour are going to find it damned hard to prove they're not lying about that as well.
Possibly.I posted earlier in here or the Brexit thread about how Corbynites undetestimate the importance of Brexit to remainers. It is wishful thinking, if not arrogance, to think Corbyn's socialist agenda is so compelling that it dominates Brexit and will somehow keep remainers loyal. It won't. It is very likely many who have defected will not return to Labour if Corbyn keeps equivocating on Brexit. Brexit is that big.
I am not even sure it will be that easy for Labour to regain supporters even if they firmly tilt towards a second referendum. Labour has handed the Lib Dems a lifeline and momentum. If the Lib Dems get themselves a new young energetic leader, as looks likely, who speaks very eloquently and articulately about Brexit, they might be turning even more heads.
The agenda in the last election stopped all talk of brexit, will it this time is anyone guess(Although I expect not). Depends when the next general election is.
Jeremy Corbyn's team have confirmed he did ask for a meeting with Donald Trump.