Has political correctness actually gone mad?

MadMike said:
If no one gives a shit then why change it? It's pretty clear people and companies do give a shit.

My personal opinion is that companies these days, Disney included, thrive on creating controversy as a means of advertising. Giving 0 fecks, in spite of their preaching, about creating a more cohesive society but trying to profiteer from discord instead.

I'm certainly all for more racial inclusion in Hollywood. I'm all for promoting more stories and more movies written, acted and voiced by people of diverse heritage. More Mulans, more Moanas etc. Simply replacing a character in a Hans Christian Andersen story with a black sketch and voice actor is pretty half-hearted and hamfisted attempt at creating diversity. And while I don't give a feck about what Disney do with their stories, I do care about its effects on the current political climate and discourse.
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At the end of the day I think you have to trust the producer, in this case Disney, that their casting choice isn’t for reasons other than simply because she’s the best person for the job. But it is interesting how far it can go before you would encounter pushback. You couldn’t cast a man in this role, for example. Or could you?

It's a bit like when people kick off over an able-bodied person being cast as a character in a wheelchair. "Oh, there's plenty of actually disabled people who could have played that role..." Yeah, and? Maybe the director didn't want them. It's about who fits the role the best, so why should he cast someone who isn't necessarily as good just to appease your group? So what if she isn't actually disabled, that's literally what acting is. She's pretending, that's kind of the point...
 
Jippy said:
Omg Scream has become more reflective of American society.

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Completely unrelated somewhat but watched Scream a few weeks back and it still holds up brilliant. Such a fun movie.
 
I can understand an outrage if the character played in based on someone real and there is a clear difference in terms of skin color/gender/etc etc... However a fecking cartoon ?
The same shit happened to the actress on "Titans " who was played Starfire but that was even worse as she is supposed to be from outer space but she still received plenty of racist messages on her social media accounts
 
Saw a yacht called Moonraker today so got me thinking about a minority (Asian, black..) James Bond...
Came to the conclusion that it wouldn’t matter a jot if he was Asian, White or Black cos that wouldn’t be important.
Not sure all die hard Bond fans would agree but what says the caf?
 
utdalltheway said:
Saw a yacht called Moonraker today so got me thinking about a minority (Asian, black..) James Bond...
Came to the conclusion that it wouldn’t matter a jot if he was Asian, White or Black cos that wouldn’t be important.
Not sure all die hard Bond fans would agree but what says the caf?
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Think Idris would make a great Bond. Hope he's the next one. I do feel it should be a British actor though, even though Brosnan did a good job.

If you look at all the actors put forward to take over, he just seems the most Bond like to me. Gillian Anderson is an interesting idea too, can you imagine if that happened!
 
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utdalltheway said:
Saw a yacht called Moonraker today so got me thinking about a minority (Asian, black..) James Bond...
Came to the conclusion that it wouldn’t matter a jot if he was Asian, White or Black cos that wouldn’t be important.
Not sure all die hard Bond fans would agree but what says the caf?
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I'm fine as long as they don't cast the babyfaced weirdo from twilight for it too.
 
This is Ian Fleming's own sketch of Bond:
Fleming007impression.jpg

Yes, he's white - but he doesn't look like Roger Moore or any of the other actors who've played him. Cumberbatch could look fairly similar to this, but I couldn't see him in the role. Elba would be a good Bond.
 
A few issues here need to be seperated. Is it ok for a fan of something to want some form of the adaption to stay true to the original? of course imo. Do companies that create these adaptations owe it to those 'hardcore' fans? No imo. Its simple market factors at work. The company has made the calculation that the new fans they get will replace n possibly outnumber the old ones.
On a side note i saw the new spiderman last night and they made mj a black girl and peter parkers class was basically a benneton ad. None of these things bothered me but it does feel forced.
 
utdalltheway said:
Saw a yacht called Moonraker today so got me thinking about a minority (Asian, black..) James Bond...
Came to the conclusion that it wouldn’t matter a jot if he was Asian, White or Black cos that wouldn’t be important.
Not sure all die hard Bond fans would agree but what says the caf?
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I think Elba would make a good bond. It’s tricky with Bond though, because he’s almost a caricature. He’s got so many well established features, I don’t think he could be played by a woman for example. It would totally change the character and what the films are about. I don’t see why the actor couldn’t be black though.

I think it comes down to this: Is Bond meant to be the same character as the novels, and across each film? Or is James Bond just a code name and each actor is a different character? If it’s the latter then make them whoever you want, it doesn’t matter. But if you’re trying to remain true to the same character as the others that have played them, it does sort of need to be a man imo.
 
Penna said:
This is Ian Fleming's own sketch of Bond:
Fleming007impression.jpg

Yes, he's white - but he doesn't look like Roger Moore or any of the other actors who've played him. Cumberbatch could look fairly similar to this, but I couldn't see him in the role. Elba would be a good Bond.
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Cumberbatch is too goofy looking for the role in my opinion. It needs to be some suave and steely.
 
2 man midfield said:
I think Elba would make a good bond. It’s tricky with Bond though, because he’s almost a caricature. He’s got so many well established features, I don’t think he could be played by a woman for example. It would totally change the character and what the films are about. I don’t see why the actor couldn’t be black though.

I think it comes down to this: Is Bond meant to be the same character as the novels, and across each film? Or is James Bond just a code name and each actor is a different character? If it’s the latter then make them whoever you want, it doesn’t matter. But if you’re trying to remain true to the same character as the others that have played them, it does sort of need to be a man imo.
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Aye, I think that's right.

Really the changes that make sense depend on the character. For example, with the Doctor in Doctor Who you could happily have actors of different race, gender or nationality playing the character without the character fundamentally being different.

In Bond's case though I'd say his two defining characteristics are that he is British (even if the actors who play him aren't) and that he is a man. The latter being particularly relevant in terms of his relationship with female characters. Bond's attitude towards women has remained the same throughout the series, even as changing times saw the films themselves become quicker to describe that attitude in terms such as "sexist", "chauvinist" and "misogynist". Phoebe Waller-Bridge (who will be writing on Bond 25) said that, while the film has to treat women properly, Bond himself doesn't as that wouldn't be true to character. I don't think you could make Bond a woman and keep that fundamental characteristic as the power dynamic wouldn't stay the same.
 
I think there are 3 things Bond must be - British, male, physically in shape. Ethnicity and even age to some extent don't matter.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
I'm guessing she means the character has to be British, as long as the actor can do a good enough accent then there's no issue.
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I just meant it as a bit of a joke. But yeah Bond would have to British, we've already had the non British Bond film in Bourne Identity series and the Tom Cruise tries endless to kill himself on screen for millions of dollars Mission Impossible films.
 
Now I’m thinking of a female Bond, where she treats men similar to how the male Bond treats women. It could be interesting.
Get the right person and with a good script I think it could work.
 
MadMike said:
If no one gives a shit then why change it? It's pretty clear people and companies do give a shit.

My personal opinion is that companies these days, Disney included, thrive on creating controversy as a means of advertising. Giving 0 fecks, in spite of their preaching, about creating a more cohesive society but trying to profiteer from discord instead.

I'm certainly all for more racial inclusion in Hollywood. I'm all for promoting more stories and more movies written, acted and voiced by people of diverse heritage. More Mulans, more Moanas etc. Simply replacing a character in a Hans Christian Andersen story with a black sketch and voice actor is pretty half-hearted and hamfisted attempt at creating diversity. And while I don't give a feck about what Disney do with their stories, I do care about its effects on the current political climate and discourse.
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Did Hans Christian Andersen ever describe the Little Mermaid as being porcelain skinned? Let's face it, the story is about a mythical crypyozoological creature. It would be akin to kicking off about the genie in Aladdin being blue.
 
utdalltheway said:
Now I’m thinking of a female Bond, where she treats men similar to how the male Bond treats women. It could be interesting.
Get the right person and with a good script I think it could work.
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It would be so shit and the backlash would be insane.

We already have plenty of female spy characters in recent years (atomic blonde, for example) there's no reason whatsoever to make Bond a woman. Just make new characters.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
It would be so shit and the backlash would be insane.

We already have plenty of female spy characters in recent years (atomic blonde, for example) there's no reason whatsoever to make Bond a woman. Just make new characters.
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I think this when I see people clamouring for a female doctor who, James Bond etc. There’s not really a good reason why they shouldn’t pick a woman as such, but why hijack an existing thing? Just make new stuff. That character happens to already be a man, so invent a new one who isn’t.
 
2 man midfield said:
I think this when I see people clamouring for a female doctor who, James Bond etc. There’s not really a good reason why they shouldn’t pick a woman as such, but why hijack an existing thing? Just make new stuff. That character happens to already be a man, so invent a new one who isn’t.
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People are all the time but it rarely gets pass the studio executives/heads of production, who are worried about alienating audiences with anything different. Which in fairness they've got a point because audiences seem to be as thick as pig shit.
 
RedTiger said:
Did Hans Christian Andersen ever describe the Little Mermaid as being porcelain skinned? Let's face it, the story is about a mythical crypyozoological creature. It would be akin to kicking off about the genie in Aladdin being blue.
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Yep he did. What else did you expect a Danish author in the 1800s to describe?

He fixed his coal-black eyes upon her so earnestly that she cast down her own, and then became aware that her fish’s tail was gone, and that she had as pretty a pair of white legs and tiny feet as any little maiden could have.
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http://hca.gilead.org.il/li_merma.html

I do hope Halle Bailey kills it (in a positive sense) and it ends up being a good movie. She don't deserve being embroiled in a controversy and I hope it doesn't affect her. We all know what twitter trolls are like, Brie Larson got a ton of undue shit for example.
 
MadMike said:
Yep he did. What else did you expect a Danish author in the 1800s to describe?


http://hca.gilead.org.il/li_merma.html

I do hope Halle Bailey kills it (in a positive sense) and it ends up being a good movie. She don't deserve being embroiled in a controversy and I hope it doesn't affect her. We all know what twitter trolls are like, Brie Larson got a ton of undue shit for example.
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Then I take it back. Although she's still a make believe creature.
 
MadMike said:
Yep he did. What else did you expect a Danish author in the 1800s to describe?


http://hca.gilead.org.il/li_merma.html

I do hope Halle Bailey kills it (in a positive sense) and it ends up being a good movie. She don't deserve being embroiled in a controversy and I hope it doesn't affect her. We all know what twitter trolls are like, Brie Larson got a ton of undue shit for example.
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If the male protagonist doesn't have "coal-black eyes", will the same idiots complain about that as well?
 
Dante said:
If the male protagonist doesn't have "coal-black eyes", will the same idiots complain about that as well?
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Perhaps. Considering we're at an age where people complain about a black actor not being black enough for a role.
 
Dante said:
Behave.

We both know the answer is 'no'.

Prince Eric was blue-eyed in the animated movie.
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Well, you behave. I'm sure you know that changing the race of characters in this day and age is way more controversial than changing hair or eye colour. And asking me whether people will be complain about by the eye colour was kind of a pointless comment to begin with.
 
MadMike said:
Well, you behave. I'm sure you know that changing the race of characters in this day and age is way more controversial than changing hair or eye colour. And asking me whether people will be complain about by the eye colour was kind of a pointless comment to begin with.
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Then why did you respond with "perhaps"?

You're all over the place in this thread.
 
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