Out - Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku & Sanchez; In - Daniel James

I am not against getting proper replacements but feel this whole situation is used to slam kids for some reason. People already forgot our last season or what? Where we ended up last season in PL, how we played, level of performances etc. Who was in that squad last season? Greenwood wasnt, same goes for Chong or Gomes.

Regardless of our squad age, one of our biggest problems still is us being clueless at developing those players and improving them on training pitch.
 
The poster wrote that with regards to squad management, van Gaal sold pretty much every player who wasn't suited to his requirement to bring young players in from the academy and naively pinned his hopes on squad/youth to step up to the task. We finished on 58 points that season and missed CL football as a result. Also, it goes without saying that PL is much stronger since then given 81 points would've won you the league that season.

I would agree with that.

I worry this season will be a repeat of our 2015-2016 season where we struggle mightily to score goals.
 
Playing as CF also means he spends much of the time in the box instead of tracking opponents FB, as said by Zabaleta. Martial's goal record is very good considering he was LW and played less than 50% of total league mins. I have confidence in Rashford and Martial stepping up, it's the contribution from others is the big worrying part.

I wish I shared the same optimism with you on both, I think they've been unfairly forced with this responsibility. Before anyone quotes me on this, I understand they are on superstar level wages but they are 21 and 23 yo respectively. They are nowhere near the finished article, if we go on a bad run and their confidence takes a dip. Who do we have to take them out of the firing line? Another bunch of kids.

For me, biggest worry is I still see no pattern to our play. What are we trying to do in attack with possession, its all so static. Individual quality of Martial and Rashford can only sporadically lead to goals, not consistently. I hope I'm proven wrong and they have a breakout season but at the moment I don't feel very positive about upcoming season.

I would agree with that.

I worry this season will be a repeat of our 2015-2016 season where we struggle mightily to score goals.

As long as we have some silverware to show for at the end of season, I'd be content. This is basically a free season for all the young players at United to show their worth. My only worry is how they'll cope mentally when things inevitably start to go wrong, the media scrutiny and pressure is on another level.
 
Finish outside the top 4 again, Pogba leaves and lets see who we can actually attract.
As much as I dread it, he's going if Madrid stump up the money lets be honest.

We can survive though, we just have to be smart with our recruitment. The next clump of players we buy need to be hits.

I can't believe that about 8/10 players we've signed have been big failures!
 
We are selling players or getting rid, but we are not replacing them. Our squad is too thin to get into top 4 this season and compete in Europa league also. We certainly need an attacker and a Midfielder brought here in January.
 
As much as I dread it, he's going if Madrid stump up the money lets be honest.

We can survive though, we just have to be smart with our recruitment. The next clump of players we buy need to be hits.

I can't believe that about 8/10 players we've signed have been big failures!

Yeah, we will have money and should be smart in signing players. We had such a shit transfer record in the last 5 years.

2014 - 2019
Shaw - First choice player
Martial - First choice player
Pogba - First choice player
Lindelof - First choice player

Romero - back up player
Bailly - back up player
Matic - back up player
Fred - back up player
Dalot - back up player
Grant - back up player

Di Maria - Sold
Blind - Sold
Schneiderlin - Sold
Depay -Sold
Mkhitaryan - Sold
Lukaku - Sold
Sanchez - Loaned out
Falcao - loan, didn't take the option to sign him

Herrera - Released/left on free transfer
Schweinsteiger - Released
Zlatan - Released
Rojo - deadwood
Darmian - deadwood

Might have missed few players, also it might be harsh to consider Matic as back up player as he played a lot in last 2 seasons but overall the record is very poor.
 
People are suddenly massive fans of the likes of lukaku, fellaini and Sanchez but they couldn't wait to get shut of them when they were here. Good riddance as far as I'm concerned. They didn't fit the system and made us worse to watch when they played.
 
Yeah, we will have money and should be smart in signing players. We had such a shit transfer record in the last 5 years.

2014 - 2019
Shaw - First choice player
Martial - First choice player
Pogba - First choice player
Lindelof - First choice player

Romero - back up player
Bailly - back up player
Matic - back up player
Fred - back up player
Dalot - back up player
Grant - back up player

Di Maria - Sold
Blind - Sold
Schneiderlin - Sold
Depay -Sold
Mkhitaryan - Sold
Lukaku - Sold
Sanchez - Loaned out
Falcao - loan, didn't take the option to sign him

Herrera - Released/left on free transfer
Schweinsteiger - Released
Zlatan - Released
Rojo - deadwood
Darmian - deadwood

Might have missed few players, also it might be harsh to consider Matic as back up player as he played a lot in last 2 seasons but overall the record is very poor.
We still have a lot of deadwood to get rid of. But we also need to replace them.
Lukaku and Herrera not being replaced will be the problem, especially when we get some injuries. Martial and Shaw are already 2 out and if Pogba or McTominay pick up and injury we F@cked.
 
We’ve been trying to move defenders on. Smalling, Rojo, and Darmian, all would be sold if the right offer was on the table. Possibly Bailly too, had he not got injured. Young is decent cover and nearing retirement age anyway, no problem with him staying. Jones is the only odd one for me, but perhaps he’s happy with a squad role & Ole sees a use for him.

It might be a rough year but I think we need this. It can’t all be fixed in one summer. Clear a lot off the wage bill and don’t panic buy, but bring in the correct targets in future windows. I’m happy with how we handled the Dybala situation because I’m sure that in previous years we would have offered him silly money he couldn’t refuse. Not anymore, and that’s great.

It’s not going to happen overnight but I genuinely feel like we’re moving in the right direction and building a proper team. I hope we can keep ticking over this season and not have a total collapse because if we can keep what we have and add to it, we’ll be in a good place.

I'm pretty sure that if we really wanted to move Smalling on, we'd have done that. As for Darmian we've had the rumours all year long about Inter/Juve coming in for him yet he's still here, perhaps because we've been haggling over a milion euro here and there while we're happy to pay X% of Sanchez's wages so that we can loan him out. Again, this is not a strategy, it's a scatter gun approach that we're witnessing year in year out ever since Fergie and Gill stepped down. Woodward is about as clueless as you can be. If Ole is seeing use for Jones then he's making his own bed, which leads me to the next point.

This season it seems pretty certain that we'll lose out on CL again, 2nd year in a row, rememeber those articles a couple of years ago that there's an agreement with addidas that if we miss out on CL in subsequent seasons there'll be some cut in the finances? Those articles will start reappearing around new year when it's dead obvious we're not getting into CL. Now this is what will speak to Woodward - numbers, we're losing those, provided he doesn't give a shit about games lost, he'll care about money lost. That's the moment Ole's walking on a thin ice, you genuinely cannot believe that Woodward will keep him for the long term overhaul that we're in such a desperate need for. He'll pull the trigger on him the second things go south. He's done that with his dream signing in Mourinho who was a brand in itself no matter which way you look at it. Ole's not a brand, he doesn't have the glamour about him, he'll pretty much share Moyes' fate here. So a new manager comes in, probably one with a new vision (given we still don't have anything that remotely resembeles a DOF), will need new players, the players will need time to adapt to his philisophy, rinse, repeat, same shit, different season.

And here arises another problem. Building the squad is bound to be problematic when 1) your core players want to leave and 2) you've got nothing to appeal to the players (finishing 6th, 7th, whatever we finish on this season). Do you really see Pogba sticking around when we finish outside of CL again? He's here this season purely because neither Madrid nor Juve were desperate enough to force our hand (it's another matter that in their eyes he's simply not worth fighting tooth and nail for), they'll just wait around for him to kick the shit up via his brothers or Raiola again and force us to sell him for lower price to whoever comes in for him. DDG's another guy who'll probably jump the ship when the time is right, and even considering his recent 'blip' in form, he's still pretty much a vital member of our XI. I don't like Pogba and I'll be happy to see him feck off finally but the fact is he is important to the team and he'll inevitably leave.

So that leaves us with having to spend about ~70-80 mln euro upwards if we want to get a DDG replacement, feck knows what to spend and on whom with Pogba leaving. So there's another year where our budget is forced to be spent on purely replacing the players instead of bolstering and adding to the squad, questionmarks over quality of the replacements too. Take into consideration the cut in money from addidas, yearly talk of 'the market is this way now' (newsflash: it won't be any different next year, or the year after, or the year after) and here we are, perhaps even worse than we have been with no puzzles in the right places again, instead with a shit smeared all over the jigsaw. And this is an optimistic scenario where Pogba/DDG's departures don't trigger other players to reconsider their future (Martial having a good season perhaps? He'll probably jump the ship too; Rashford having a good season and everybody's leaving? His 'logcal lad, academy product' label will be tested to say the least).

It's not doom and gloom, it's pretty much making observations of a last couple of years, taking notes and predicting the scenario based on the info gathered. For me we're inevitably rushing into yet another season of a vicious circle we've been in for some time now. With very few glimmers of hope.
 
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I'm fairly pleased with the way we're going about our business.

Fellaini, Lukaku and Sanchez are signs of all that's been wrong with the club. They would be contributing nothing and after 6 years it's good to see the club is finally recognising that. We are clearing out players we don't want and have finally stopped bringing in more of the same.
 
I'm fairly pleased with the way we're going about our business.

Fellaini, Lukaku and Sanchez are signs of all that's been wrong with the club. They would be contributing nothing and after 6 years it's good to see the club is finally recognising that. We are clearing out players we don't want and have finally stopped bringing in more of the same.
We have stopped bringing in forward players altogether. I don't think anyone considers a James to be first team ready.
 
We have stopped bringing in forward players altogether. I don't think anyone considers a James to be first team ready.

Whether he is ready or not, in 3 games he is 1 goal off Sanchez's total from 2 years here.

I would far prefer to give young players a chance to prove themselves, instead of continuing with players we already know are not good enough. That is how we find ourselves in the Europa League again.
 
Not much choice but to give him a run with martial injured as well... Hopefully he carries on his form
Has he played on the left before?

James is a left winger. That's where he played most pre-us and he switched to the left wing in the second half against Palace as well.
 
We are putting an awful lot of faith in Martial, Rashford, James & Greenwood. Two are inconsistent and still young themselves, 1 has started well but has only one season of 2nd division football under his belt, and the other is a child. There's a difference between giving youth a chance and being negligent to the team, we are the latter. If Rashford and Martial get injured we are looking at a front 3 of Lingard, James and Greenwood.
 
Issue is not that we didn't replaced the players we lost, it's that we don't have quality in our team.

I am sorry but in midfield we have options.... weak options, but we have options. We can't buy Fernandes, Neves, Maddison, Partey or I don't know who since we have players there.

In midfield we have Pogba, Mc Tominay, Matic, Pereira, Fred and maybe even Garner.

Same in attack with Jessinho Lingardinho, Martial, Rashford, Mata, James, Greenwood, and even Chong and Gomes (also Sanchez no ?)

I am sorry, but you can add all the players in the world if you not sell first.

All these players are paid like superstar, you can't just add wages and wages and wages.

Issue is not quantity, it's quality
 
Great replacement options, I see.

McTominay has potential to be at least as good as Herrera although I think he’ll be better and Pereira is a far more suited player for what we want than Fellaini ever was although again it’ll take a season or so for Pereira so for me they are good replacements, I agree about Llorente as I don’t want to see him sign for us and I think we made a big mistake not pushing through Mandzukic or another striker to replace Lukaku though.

Reality is though that we’re doing the right things by moving on the players we are (apart from Herrera as I’d have kept him personally) but it’s not going to be a quick thing to get back to where we were or how we should be, it’s going to take a season or two or 3 or 4 transfer windows to be realistically challenging for the biggest trophies on a consistent basis.

We’ve so much deadwood and filler in our squad but short of doing a 10 in and 10 out overhaul, which with the people we’ve got in charge for recruiting players isn’t even an option, we need to be patient. We seriously need a defensive midfielder, a playmaker, a right forward and a striker whilst also needing another left back to put pressure on Shaw.

I think by next summer we'll have got rid of Darmian, Bailly, Rojo, Young, Matic and Sanchez and at the same time Tuanzebe, Williams, Garner, Gomes, Chong, James and Greenwood will have all had a season playing Premier League football. The Maguire/Lindelof and Martial/Rashford partnerships will have had a season together to click and if we can tie Pogba down he’ll have had a season playing his new role, after 5 and a half years of managers who were only at United for the money we're a mess but the right moves are happening even if only slowly.
 
Actually James can play anyway across the front line. He said so himself when we bought him, and has played up front as well for Swansea. And only fools would write off a player who has already scored 2 in 3 games.

For our CF, in a 4-2-3-1, we have:
Martial
Rashford
Greenwood
James
Chong
Mellor

When Rashford made his debut, due to injuries, we had:
Rooney
Martial
Memphis
Rashford
Fellaini
Wilson

In practice, as we only play one up top and not 2 as in the time of Cole, Yorke, Ole and Sheringham, these are already more than enough. Martial will get the most games up top, and Rashford will deputise. Rashford is a very good deputy to have, for any team. And in Cups it will be Greenwood. And if both Rashford and Martial are injured, which will be very rarely, then Greenwood will get his chance to do a Rashford and stake his claim. I suspect that Greenwood will end the season as 2nd choice over Rashford, as Ole says, he is the most natural finisher we have at the club. If you had just bought Greenwood, with his stats of a goal a game, you would want to play him sooner rather than later. But due to his age we are easing him into it in the usual way by playing him out wide and as a late sub, with pre-season and Cup games to come, but make no mistake, he is a forward, and a potential Mbappe level one at that.

In the freak case all three are injured, James can do it, his profile is not that dissimilar to Rashford really. And Chong can score goals too, last season's top scorer for the Reserves and just scored a brace in his last game there. We have loads of options, which statistically speaking are very unlikely to occur anyway. Out wide we have:
Martial
Rashford
James
Greenwood
Chong
Pereira
Lingard
Dalot
Mata
Ramazani

So many combinations:
Martial
Rashford Lingard Pereira

Martial
Rashford Lingard James

Martial
Rashford Pereira James

Rashford
James Lingard Pereira

Rashford
James Mata Chong

Rashford
James Gomes Pereira

Rashford
James Gomes Greenwood

Greenwood
James Gomes Pereira

Greenwood
James Mata Pereira

Greenwood
Chong Gomes James

Greenwood
Chong Mata Dalot

James
Chong Gomes Pereira

James
Gomes Mata Pereira

and on and on

None of them might be the world class big name star studded line ups that fans fantasise about, but those fantasies sometimes end up nightmares like with Sanchez. Which of the above options is best this year may be very different to which is best in two seasons time. And none of us can guess that right, it will be trial and error, lucky breaks and unfortunate injuries, a lot of patience and experimentation, before we know which combinations suit which opponent best. But I do think that in a couple of years time that something like:
Greenwood
James Gomes Chong
might be much stronger than people imagine, and even now could probably have got a better result against Palace than we just did.
 
I don't lose sleep over Fellaini and Herrera, both have been replaced by McTominay and *fingers crossed* Fred when he returns to match form. There is a very good player there. Oh and Gomes.

We actually needed sanchez however, so this baffles me.

I really like the team we have on paper. I really like most of our bench. I don't like our options when we sustain injuries. The squad is full when injury free, toe deep when injuries set in.
 
Out of all the players, I think not replacing Herrera will be the worst thing. People like Neville kept saying how theres dozens of players like him, but we dont really have one like him. In terms of what Ole wanted, his press was one of the best through the middle. Him going off vs Liverpool was an issue and imo was part of the down turn in how our season went after that (although still think we made a mistake rushing Matic back / not sticking with the midfield that took us through vs PSG)

Funny thing is, if we take into consideration last season, if James gets 10 more prem goals, he would have replaced Sanchez and Lukakus league tally.

Fellaini was seen as a difference maker but he wasnt really. Just a crutch to use and throw the ball long at. He needed to go and isnt a player whos style is used by top sides.
 
This is gonna sound nuts but are the glazers now officially asset stripping, a bit like the Southampton owners, with a view to selling the club?

It would explain the last 2 years of transfer activity - we are just gambling on remaining in the premier league, taking the money, building “saleable assets” by buying up loads of youth prospects, and spending way under our revenue.

I think they’re waiting for prospective buyers post Brexit, a bit like mike Ashley

People always spoke about how “well run” Southampton were but that was only because they continued to win games despite making bank on all their players - they just gambled and hit the jackpot with a great youth crop. That is genuinely what I think is going on at our club now - we’ve stopped even TRYING to compete with city, Juventus and Barcelona etc. Woodward had a go and it didn’t work out so now they’re selling up while they still have a 2billion company - the expenditure required now is greater than their reward

They are happy with staying in the premier league and that’s it.
 
McTominay has potential to be at least as good as Herrera although I think he’ll be better and Pereira is a far more suited player for what we want than Fellaini ever was although again it’ll take a season or so for Pereira so for me they are good replacements, I agree about Llorente as I don’t want to see him sign for us and I think we made a big mistake not pushing through Mandzukic or another striker to replace Lukaku though.

Reality is though that we’re doing the right things by moving on the players we are (apart from Herrera as I’d have kept him personally) but it’s not going to be a quick thing to get back to where we were or how we should be, it’s going to take a season or two or 3 or 4 transfer windows to be realistically challenging for the biggest trophies on a consistent basis.

We’ve so much deadwood and filler in our squad but short of doing a 10 in and 10 out overhaul, which with the people we’ve got in charge for recruiting players isn’t even an option, we need to be patient. We seriously need a defensive midfielder, a playmaker, a right forward and a striker whilst also needing another left back to put pressure on Shaw.

I think by next summer we'll have got rid of Darmian, Bailly, Rojo, Young, Matic and Sanchez and at the same time Tuanzebe, Williams, Garner, Gomes, Chong, James and Greenwood will have all had a season playing Premier League football. The Maguire/Lindelof and Martial/Rashford partnerships will have had a season together to click and if we can tie Pogba down he’ll have had a season playing his new role, after 5 and a half years of managers who were only at United for the money we're a mess but the right moves are happening even if only slowly.

I hope you are not really believing what you are saying because you will be up for a shock.
 
If you do enough mental gymnastics then you can justify anything. There are our attacking options for 4 competitions -
  • Rashford (21 y/o)

  • Martial (23 y/o)

  • James (21 y/o, debut season, 1st season in top flight)

  • Lingard (26 y/o, no goal contribution since December)

  • Greenwood (17 y/o, 1st season in 1st team, was playing u18s last season)

  • Mata (31 y/o)

  • Chong (19 y/o, still plays reserve games)

  • Gomes (18 y/o, still plays reserve games)

Rashford and Martial have played a lot of matches between them but at the end of day they're still young players who will still make mistakes. They are still developing and will have their ups and downs throughout the season, problem for us is we've no options but to throw kids in if that were to occur.

Jury is still out on the trio of McTominay, James and Pereira being good enough to make at the club.

I know those are our attacking options. I listed all those players in the post you quoted in response to your claim we lacked experience. We clearly don't but I guess if you are going to define Rashford and Martial as young players despite Rashford having over 200 senior appearances and Martial nearly 300 then continuing this discussion as pointless as we have radically different ideas of what constitutes experience.

There's no point in throwing youth in spades if you're not creating the ideal environment for them to succeed, they will be thrown into the deep end to rescue and win matches for us when in an ideal world they should be learning their trade. Remind me how well this experiment of young players making the bench went in 2015 under van Gaal? These are the players who played for us that season, mainly because van Gaal gutted the squad to such an extent, he had no option but to play the kids
  • Nick Powell (Now at Stoke City, after 3 unsuccessful loan spells at Hull, Wigan and Leicester)

  • Guillermo Varela (Now at FC Copenhagen)

  • Paddy McNair (Now at Middlesbrough)

  • Donald Love (Now at Shrewsbury Town)

  • Cameron Borthwick-Jackson (Now at Scunthorpe United)

  • Will Keane (Now at Ipswich Town)

  • James Wilson (Now at Aberdeen)

  • Adnan Januzaj (Now at Real Socediad)
  • Tyler Blackett (Now at Reading)
With exception of Januzaj, none of them are playing in 1st Division of their respective league. Only player to come good through that experiment was Marcus Rashford. I understand fans want to be romantic and want youth players to succeed, but there's a very very tiny percentage of players who make the step up from youth football to top level. The parallels I see with van Gaals' last season and Oles' current are staggering, both got rid of experienced players from the squad and pinned their hopes on existing squad players to step up along with youth. Ole is doing the same thing with Rashford and Martial like van Gaal did with Rooney and Depay, we all know how that season went for the club.

You need to go back and look at the 15/16 season because your recollection is inaccurate if you think we did poorly because we had no senior players and youth got too much playing time.*

Here is the playing time the academy grads got that season in the league:

Rashford. 862 minutes. 17th most in the squad.
Borthwick-Jackson. 692 minutes. 19th most in the squad.
Varela, McNair, Fosu-Mensah, Januzaj, Pereira, Powell, Wilson, Keane combined played 1112 minutes. That would put them at only 14th in the squad and it's the combined minutes of eight players.

This is not a lot and I struggle to see how it can be blamed for that season when literally none of them were more than peripheral figures. More importantly Van Gaal's approach to our youth was unplanned and scatter gun. When Rashford got into the team it wasn't something that Van Gaal had been wanting to do from the year before. He lost senior players due to injury and just grabbed someone from the academy, Rashford was a big enough talent that it worked, with less talented players it failed.

Is this what Solskjaer is doing? Clearly not. The young players that he is trying to create space for are all ones he has been planning to introduce since last season. Gomes, Chong, Greenwood and Garner were all training with the first team under Solskjaer last season, they all made match day squads under Solskjaer last season, they were all taken on the first team tour under Solskjaer in pre-season. Anyone characterising this as a manager desperately placing faith in youth because he's got no alternative is either ignorant or disingenuous. It's a careful, planned approach we are taking with these players and it's one the manager should be applauded for instead of criticised.

*For the record the two biggest reasons we were poor in 15/16 was Van Gaal's awful tactics and his misplaced faith in Rooney. Anything else would be a distant third.
 
This is wildly inaccurate.

The club made 3 signings in total. And of the players you named, only Herrera is actually going to be missed. Fellaini, less said the better. Getting rid of Lukaku is like signing a new forward in itself. And Sanchez has been a fraud for 18 months now.

The defence was a glaring weekness and it has been addressed. A right footed winger was required and that player was signed. Only place that looks depleted is midfield. But that might change if Fred can start playing well.

The rebuild has been started and Ole has made decent moves. Sure there's a way to go yet but it was never going to be done in one go.

Personnel aside, the team has started playing differently. They might still look clueless against dogged defences and a lot of the players make mistakes but keep in mind this is a top 4 challenging team. It's not meant to be a championship winning team. There will be occassions when the players feck up and throw away points. Ole has to make sure, over time, that they achieve a higher level of consistency and mistakes are fewer than missing 2 penalties in 2 games. Don't expect massive improvements, but accept that there are small improvements being made.
 
This is gonna sound nuts but are the glazers now officially asset stripping, a bit like the Southampton owners, with a view to selling the club?

It would explain the last 2 years of transfer activity - we are just gambling on remaining in the premier league, taking the money, building “saleable assets” by buying up loads of youth prospects, and spending way under our revenue.

I think they’re waiting for prospective buyers post Brexit, a bit like mike Ashley

People always spoke about how “well run” Southampton were but that was only because they continued to win games despite making bank on all their players - they just gambled and hit the jackpot with a great youth crop. That is genuinely what I think is going on at our club now - we’ve stopped even TRYING to compete with city, Juventus and Barcelona etc. Woodward had a go and it didn’t work out so now they’re selling up while they still have a 2billion company - the expenditure required now is greater than their reward

They are happy with staying in the premier league and that’s it.


It does make you wonder.

I said last year that my thinking was that they'd resigned themselves to never being able to compete at the top table. So I felt they were just seeing how far they could go in terms of milking the club before leaving.

They've done well so far because they've been able to somehow spin a positive narrative around Dec/Jan that spurs the season ticket buyers into renewing.

As long as that happens each year they're clinging on. Which is why I've predicted Ole to be gone around that time if results are bad and they'll do something mad to try and force the renewals. Start briefing massively about the summer 'warchest' links to players WELL out of our reach, DOF, all the right buzzwords.

If that doesn't work this year, I think they'll look at selling.
 
I don’t know why anyone believes we will buy in January. How many players move in January that are top tier? It’s incredibly rare.

“But that might change if Fred can start playing well”. Where is there any evidence of this? He can’t even get in our squad. If Pogba gets injured we are down to mctominay, Andreas and lingard, I am excluding Gomes and Garner as it seems for all Ed’s bs we aren’t playing them anytime soon. In fact I’ll put money mata gets more minutes in midfield.
 
I know those are our attacking options. I listed all those players in the post you quoted in response to your claim we lacked experience. We clearly don't but I guess if you are going to define Rashford and Martial as young players despite Rashford having over 200 senior appearances and Martial nearly 300 then continuing this discussion as pointless as we have radically different ideas of what constitutes experience.

Once again you completely missed the point. Just because players have loads of appearances under their belt doesn't mean they are not going to make silly errors which players of their age will make, it's a natural progression. The problem with our setup is, once those errors arrive, there won't be a hiding place for them, because to replace kids we just have another bunch of kids. We lack the mixture of youth and finished article, experience cannot be solely crystallized to number of games a player has made.

You need to go back and look at the 15/16 season because your recollection is inaccurate if you think we did poorly because we had no senior players and youth got too much playing time. Here is the playing time the academy grads got that season in the league:

Rashford. 862 minutes. 17th most in the squad.
Borthwick-Jackson. 692 minutes. 19th most in the squad.
Varela, McNair, Fosu-Mensah, Januzaj, Pereira, Powell, Wilson, Keane combined played 1112 minutes. That would put them at only 14th in the squad and it's the combined minutes of eight players.

This is not a lot and I struggle to see how it can be blamed for that season when literally none of them were more than peripheral figures. More importantly Van Gaal's approach to our youth was unplanned and scatter gun. When Rashford got into the team it wasn't something that Van Gaal had been wanting to do from the year before. He lost senior players due to injury and just grabbed someone from the academy, Rashford was a big enough talent that it worked, with less talented players it failed.

My memory of that season is pretty clear, van Gaal stripped many useful players in the summer window and misplaced his faith in the squad/youth to step up. We sold number of squad players without ever bringing in a replacement. Those minutes might make it look like they were at the periphery but each one of them contributed to that season because of number of mistakes they made in limited minutes they played.

Is this what Solskjaer is doing? Clearly not. The young players that he is trying to create space for are all ones he has been planning to introduce since last season. Gomes, Chong, Greenwood and Garner were all training with the first team under Solskjaer last season, they all made match day squads under Solskjaer last season, they were all taken on the first team tour under Solskjaer in pre-season. It's a careful, planned approach we are taking with these players and it's one the manager should be applauded for instead of criticised.

I highlighted where those players are currently plying their trade to point out just because players look good in youth setup doesn't necessarily means they'll make the step up to first team. Ole might've been planning to introduce Gomes, Chong, Greendwood and Garner since last December itself but that doesn't mean it's risk-averse. A careful, planned approach would've meant not to throw kids into the deep end. Rather, integrate them gradually with few appearances in cup/easy matches. Given our dire state of squad, Ole has no option but to rely on them to turn around matches for us. That's the reason why Greenwood came on for Lingard last week when we were chasing the game vs Palace, and poor kid looked scared to get on the ball with 2 Palace players twice his size/power hunting him down.

For the record the two biggest reasons we were poor in 15/16 was Van Gaal's awful tactics and his misplaced faith in Rooney. Anything else would be a distant third.

van Gaals poor tactics led us to a comfortable 4th placed finish the season before even after imploding in the final months. The squad was way too barebones to repeat the same in the following season, it's not like everyone around us magically improved. In fact, every one around us were significantly worse. Chelsea finished 10th, Liverpool 8th and City scraped CL football over us on GD. Leicester won the PL with 81 points that season, the same point tally everyone on here was turning their nose at in 17/18. Context eh?

This is wildly inaccurate.

The club made 3 signings in total. And of the players you named, only Herrera is actually going to be missed. Fellaini, less said the better. Getting rid of Lukaku is like signing a new forward in itself. And Sanchez has been a fraud for 18 months now.

Selling most prolific striker at the club without replacing is like a signing in itself. Great, Ed Woodward must love fans like you. :wenger:
 
The state of the fans is worse than the state of this club.

So we have people calling for the following to leave:-
Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini, Rojo, Darmian.

We have got rid of 3 of them and Herrera because we did not want to pay him £250k - that is right IMO.

Now that we have not replaced them we are having fans screaming.

Of those gone, none of them get into Ole's first team, yet occupy a huge wage bill.

I think we have done very well to get rid of these so that the players at the club now know reputation means nothing, you have to perform. Dan James has come in, Greenwood is being brought in. So that replaces Lukaku and Sanchez.

In Midfield, we are light but there were no clear cut attainable options and Ole wants to give McT a go and Fred another chance maybe this season?

And there is another lad called Gomes who every fan is calling for to play yet on this thread no one wants to rely on the kids.

We are not going to challenge for the title this year, we might as well build a young squad who in 1/2 years matures together and can challenges with a few additions to come. This means the right additions not a panic buy.
 
Isn’t the whole point of selling these players so that we end up in a position where the young players do get chances.

Plenty of other PL clubs put faith in youngsters to be the main men for the season and we often end up buying them!

I trust that in Greenwood, Chong, Gomes and Garner we have a youth prospect there that will be a first team regular.

If the others fail to step up then we look at adding to the squad with quality.
 
Once again you completely missed the point. Just because players have loads of appearances under their belt doesn't mean they are not going to make silly errors which players of their age will make, it's a natural progression. The problem with our setup is, once those errors arrive, there won't be a hiding place for them, because to replace kids we just have another bunch of kids. We lack the mixture of youth and finished article, experience cannot be solely crystallized to number of games a player has made.

I agree with you general point but you say this and in the other post you were praising Lukaku and how much big loss he is. He is finished article but he made some downright stupid mistakes while playing for us. Sanchez was experienced player but he gives away possession so cheaply and all the time.
 
Our squad and wage bill was bloated. We shouldn't rush to replace these players with the wrong players and be stuck with more 200k players on the wage bill for 4 years. Ie we shouldn't panic if we can get by. We have a several months before the next summer window to line up a midfielder and 1-2 additions to our front line. We should have people working on this constantly. We have saved at least 100m in the last 2 Windows and should save money from a reduced wage bill this year too ... money shouldn't stand in the way of us adding a starting 6, 7 and 10 next summer. We have an exciting young squad that can improve a lot in a year of steady football
 
Our squad and wage bill was bloated. We shouldn't rush to replace these players with the wrong players and be stuck with more 200k players on the wage bill for 4 years. Ie we shouldn't panic if we can get by. We have a several months before the next summer window to line up a midfielder and 1-2 additions to our front line. We should have people working on this constantly. We have saved at least 100m in the last 2 Windows and should save money from a reduced wage bill this year too ... money shouldn't stand in the way of us adding a starting 6, 7 and 10 next summer. We have an exciting young squad that can improve a lot in a year of steady football


Exactly, if we bought anyone in, it would be a panic buy. A midfielder who is 27/28 with 200k plus wages and £80m who when the rest of the squad matures will need replacing.

We have got the Lukaku money and Sanchez wages to save till next year and spend it on a target who will improve us for 5 years not instant impact.
 
I agree with you general point but you say this and in the other post you were praising Lukaku and how much big loss he is. He is finished article but he made some downright stupid mistakes while playing for us. Sanchez was experienced player but he gives away possession so cheaply and all the time.

I said Lukaku is a loss because we didn't replace his goals, not that I think he was immune to making mistakes since he was a finished article. I wanted us to sign a stop gap who can take the mantle of being main goalscorer of the squad while likes of Martial/Rashford continue to gradually improve. Pep didn't get rid of Aguero when he had two legitimate goal scorers out wide in Sane and Sterling plus a ready made replacement in Jesus. Why? Because he knows, in crunch moments, pressure situations Aguero will be the one tasked to produce. He continuously rests likes of Sane/Sterling when they have accumulated too many minutes or are in a bad run of form and signed quality competition for same. For a while, that was the case at United too but now we can't afford to do that. They simply have to play through a bad run/tiring run because we have very poor/inexperienced options on bench.

With Sanchez, I personally feel he's physically shot like Rooney and Torres were but he was still an experienced option and (previously) proven quality. Copa America this summer showed that he still has something to offer, would what he had offered correlate to his mega wages? Obviously not but he was still an option to fetch goals if deployed through the middle. I feel there's no upside to this loan deal because A) We didn't sign a replacement B) We're still funding 60% of his wages and C) There's no obligation on Inters' part to buy at the end of next season. I mean we are saving what £5-6m in wages over a season? But, we are still gonna pay that amount to Darmian even though we are stacked in that part of the squad. It's all too scattered gun for my liking, I don't see an overall plan/strategy to what we've done this summer.
 
We have stopped bringing in forward players altogether. I don't think anyone considers a James to be first team ready.
We worked on deals for attacking players. We just didn't panic and bring in the wrong players. I respect ole for not doing what mourinho would have done, paid top dollar for Willian, sanchez, matic and players he knew that qould help him get a few more points in the short term
 
I'm very happy these players have left (Except Herrera). We should have replaced at least one of them though.

If the Dybala deal had come off then we would only be a CM away from having a very good team (Still lacking in some quality depth). As it stands our midfield and attack is very low on quality and guile. Lots of pace but a team needs more than just runners.
 
I said Lukaku is a loss because we didn't replace his goals, not that I think he was immune to making mistakes since he was a finished article. I wanted us to sign a stop gap who can take the mantle of being main goalscorer of the squad while likes of Martial/Rashford continue to gradually improve. Pep didn't get rid of Aguero when he had two legitimate goal scorers out wide in Sane and Sterling plus a ready made replacement in Jesus. Why? Because he knows, in crunch moments, pressure situations Aguero will be the one tasked to produce. He continuously rests likes of Sane/Sterling when they have accumulated too many minutes or are in a bad run of form and signed quality competition for same. For a while, that was the case at United too but now we can't afford to do that. They simply have to play through a bad run/tiring run because we have very poor/inexperienced options on bench.

With Sanchez, I personally feel he's physically shot like Rooney and Torres were but he was still an experienced option and (previously) proven quality. Copa America this summer showed that he still has something to offer, would what he had offered correlate to his mega wages? Obviously not but he was still an option to fetch goals if deployed through the middle. I feel there's no upside to this loan deal because A) We didn't sign a replacement B) We're still funding 60% of his wages and C) There's no obligation on Inters' part to buy at the end of next season. I mean we are saving what £5-6m in wages over a season? But, we are still gonna pay that amount to Darmian even though we are stacked in that part of the squad. It's all too scattered gun for my liking, I don't see an overall plan/strategy to what we've done this summer.

If we sign stop gap, next season we will have same argument. Martial who is 24 never carried the attack, never scored more than x number of goals. Also not sure what's the point of Aguero, Sane, Sterling there. Sane and Sterling are wingers and Aguero is asset to the team, scores shit loads of goals, works hard and doesnt have any weakness. On the other hand, Rashford and Martial are played as wingers when they are forwards. Lukaku didn't score many goals, limited player, doesn't work hard and was becoming a liability. We should have signed replacement like a good RW, no doubt about it but not stop gaps. We have to trust Martial and Rashford. We can't keep going with "they are young" excuses.

About time we start relying on the young players who have around 3-4 years of experience. They will never be proven if they are not given chances.

Sanchez I agree, he would have been one more option but lets not assume he was option to fetch goals. He scored 3 league goals in 18 months, tally that's almost reached by James in 195 mins. He would have added more than Lingard though, maybe assist a month.

@bosnian_red made good point, instead of just checking numbers we have to consider the influence of these players in the dressing room too (all speculation btw). A player who offers nothing is paid shit loads of money, it's not good situation to be in. Also this is assuming he was forced out, not that player wanted out as he isn't first choice anymore.