Out - Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku & Sanchez; In - Daniel James

I have to agree with el3 here. It is not that Felliani should not be sold but he should have been replaced with a better player. He went in January and there was enough time to get a better replacement. Scott or Pereira is still not a better player than Fellaini when it comes to the crunch. We need players now. It is nice to talk about youth but what we need is quality and not quantity. I do not understand how anyone can think by getting rid of players and not replacing them with better players we are going forward?
Pogba will be gone next season and the reason is very understandable as he wants to win the PL or and the CL and he is not going to win it at Manchester United. Then we also have to replace him. Then what? The whole midfield needs replacing. We need quality players to come in to keep quality players at United.
We were all happy that RVP came to United to win trophies. Would we be happy when all the quality players we have leave us to win trophies too?

This is utter madness by the club. If we go to the quarters or semis in the EL we would be in big trouble especially if we get rid of Rojo and Darmian with Shaw injured already.
 
Foxbatt said:
I have to agree with el3 here. It is not that Felliani should not be sold but he should have been replaced with a better player. He went in January and there was enough time to get a better replacement. Scott or Pereira is still not a better player than Fellaini when it comes to the crunch. We need players now. It is nice to talk about youth but what we need is quality and not quantity. I do not understand how anyone can think by getting rid of players and not replacing them with better players we are going forward?
Pogba will be gone next season and the reason is very understandable as he wants to win the PL or and the CL and he is not going to win it at Manchester United. Then we also have to replace him. Then what? The whole midfield needs replacing. We need quality players to come in to keep quality players at United.
We were all happy that RVP came to United to win trophies. Would we be happy when all the quality players we have leave us to win trophies too?

This is utter madness by the club. If we go to the quarters or semis in the EL we would be in big trouble especially if we get rid of Rojo and Darmian with Shaw injured already.
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If we're basing things on current sentiment, we'll either give his position to Pereira full-time and start playing Garner or we'll sign some midfielder from Fulham or similar because they're hungry and British.

And a lot of posters on here Will somehow claim it's a good, positive move.
 
settembrini said:
I know those are our attacking options. I listed all those players in the post you quoted in response to your claim we lacked experience. We clearly don't but I guess if you are going to define Rashford and Martial as young players despite Rashford having over 200 senior appearances and Martial nearly 300 then continuing this discussion as pointless as we have radically different ideas of what constitutes experience.



You need to go back and look at the 15/16 season because your recollection is inaccurate if you think we did poorly because we had no senior players and youth got too much playing time.*

Here is the playing time the academy grads got that season in the league:

Rashford. 862 minutes. 17th most in the squad.
Borthwick-Jackson. 692 minutes. 19th most in the squad.
Varela, McNair, Fosu-Mensah, Januzaj, Pereira, Powell, Wilson, Keane combined played 1112 minutes. That would put them at only 14th in the squad and it's the combined minutes of eight players.

This is not a lot and I struggle to see how it can be blamed for that season when literally none of them were more than peripheral figures. More importantly Van Gaal's approach to our youth was unplanned and scatter gun. When Rashford got into the team it wasn't something that Van Gaal had been wanting to do from the year before. He lost senior players due to injury and just grabbed someone from the academy, Rashford was a big enough talent that it worked, with less talented players it failed.

Is this what Solskjaer is doing? Clearly not. The young players that he is trying to create space for are all ones he has been planning to introduce since last season. Gomes, Chong, Greenwood and Garner were all training with the first team under Solskjaer last season, they all made match day squads under Solskjaer last season, they were all taken on the first team tour under Solskjaer in pre-season. Anyone characterising this as a manager desperately placing faith in youth because he's got no alternative is either ignorant or disingenuous. It's a careful, planned approach we are taking with these players and it's one the manager should be applauded for instead of criticised.

*For the record the two biggest reasons we were poor in 15/16 was Van Gaal's awful tactics and his misplaced faith in Rooney. Anything else would be a distant third.
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Agreed
 
Big Ben Foster said:
We already struggled to score goals last season - do you really expect Martial and Greenwood to replace the 20+ goals Lukaku scored?
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Lukaku scored 16 and 12 goals in the league in 2017-18 and 2018-19 seasons respectively. 15 goals total across all competitions last season. I get the point we need to replace him, but let's not overstate his contributions, he ain't Cristiano.
 
Kush said:
:wenger:

I was pointing to you that 3 games is too small a sample size to judge players because Barnes and Pukki both look like world beaters. Just because Martial has 2 in 3 doesn't mean he can sustain that form throughout the season, same applies for James too. How many chances has Martial had to score in last 3 games? Apart from 2 which he tucked away? We simply do not create enough and Martial conversion rate isn't going to be 100%. That was the point.



Exactly, so playing all the youth at once isn't a great idea



No they haven't. They've strengthened their defence with addition of Luiz and Tierney, midfield with addition of Ceballos and attack with the signing of Pepe. Even if you think Luiz is a joke of a defender and Arsenal will continue to leak goals, well they have increased their potency in attack more. So I fail to see how they've gotten 'worse' when they haven't sold anyone but signed key players in positions of need.

We have problems of our own before we start analyzing our rival squads. Chelsea look suspect because many of their key experienced players aren't integrated in the XI such as Willian, Rudiger and Kante. Same applies for Spurs with Alli out injured, Son just getting back in and likes of Ndombele and Lo Celso still adjusting to the PL. The team which we put out versus Palace, that's our strongest XI which is the worrying part.
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I largely agree with your point, but for the sake of accuracy Arsenal sold Iwobi and lost Cech, Koscielny and Ramsey. IMO Cech and Koscielny were important in terms of leadership in the dressing room if not ability, Ramsey is an absolute loss and Iwobi I don't know why they sold him. How significant those departures will be is anyone's guess but I guess we will find out.
 
devilish said:
Herrera was our second best CM, Fellaini is better then most of our current CM and Lukaku was clearly a great option upfront....so yes they will be missed.
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Completely agree that they will be missed in the short term, but are they the type of player we should be looking for to take us forward? Herrera being our second best CM and Fellaini being better than most of our current options only highlights the problem with this team. Panic buying will only have us back to square one.

Given our transfer record, I'm not confident that we can adequately replace these players, but 3/4 of the right signings in midfield and attack and we won't miss these players. We've spent money for the sake of it for the last 4/5 seasons and it hasn't worked, so why not try something different. At least we're finally cutting some of the deadwood from our squad who aren't good enough, but are simply there because they're not bad enough to be sold.

That's not the standard that we should be aiming for, and it's more proactive than the aimless drifting we've been doing for the last few years.
 
Kush said:
This was our activity over last two windows in midfield and attack.

I'm all for giving youth a chance but how on earth is this type of window sustainable? How can we expect a manager to deliver a Top 4 finish with such a thin squad while playing in Europa League? :wenger:

Maybe, we ought to ring Fernando fecking Llorente sometime tomorrow morning.
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We don’t expect to finish top 4
 
eire-red said:
Completely agree that they will be missed in the short term, but are they the type of player we should be looking for to take us forward? Herrera being our second best CM and Fellaini being better than most of our current options only highlights the problem with this team. Panic buying will only have us back to square one.

Given our transfer record, I'm not confident that we can adequately replace these players, but 3/4 of the right signings in midfield and attack and we won't miss these players. We've spent money for the sake of it for the last 4/5 seasons and it hasn't worked, so why not try something different. At least we're finally cutting some of the deadwood from our squad who aren't good enough, but are simply there because they're not bad enough to be sold.

That's not the standard that we should be aiming for, and it's more proactive than the aimless drifting we've been doing for the last few years.
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We had 6-7 months to replace Fellaini and Herrera but decided not to do so. Same with Lukaku to a certain extent whose been showing his interest to play in the Serie A for months. There was no need of panic buys but simply of good planning and some ambition.
 
devilish said:
We had 6-7 months to replace Fellaini and Herrera but decided not to do so. Same with Lukaku to a certain extent whose been showing his interest to play in the Serie A for months. There was no need of panic buys but simply of good planning and some ambition.
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Definitely, it might also be worth mentioning about our decision to extend Mata's contract. Many posters held to the opinion that we should get rid because he's a faded talent but ultimately it wasn't the worst thing keeping him as a backup.

I think that sentiment only existed because we thought we'd actually go out and buy a much better player in the Summer. Right now, it looks like we held onto him because we weren't prepared to spend the money on an upgrade.
 
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devilish said:
We had 6-7 months to replace Fellaini and Herrera but decided not to do so. Same with Lukaku to a certain extent whose been showing his interest to play in the Serie A for months. There was no need of panic buys but simply of good planning and some ambition.
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The optimist in me is hoping that we did try and actively replace these players but couldn't get the players we wanted and decided not to spend in an overly inflated market for players we didn't necessarily want. Whether this is the correct policy or not, I agree with you that we will miss these players in the short term. Greenwood and James likely wont replace Lukaku's goals and the midfield is thin at best.

I'm definitely not trying to suggest that everything is rosy and we're in good shape, we're definitely not. But over the next 18-24 months, if the right decisions are made at the club i believe we will be better off without these players.
 
Vidyoyo said:
Definitely, it might also be worth mentioning about our decision to extend Mata's contract. Many posters held to the opinion that we should get rid because he's a faded talent but ultimately it wasn't the worst thing keeping him as a backup.

I think that sentiment only existed because we thought we'd actually go out and buy a much better player in the Summer. Right now, it looks like we held onto him because we weren't prepared to spend the money on an upgrade.
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I was one of those who wanted Mata out same with Sanchez. However, I never thought in a million years that we would allow 4 players to go (Herrera, Fellaini, Lukaku and now Sanchez) and not replace at least 3 of them. At this point I don't want anyone out. That includes Jesse Lingard which does say something.
 
eire-red said:
The optimist in me is hoping that we did try and actively replace these players but couldn't get the players we wanted and decided not to spend in an overly inflated market for players we didn't necessarily want. Whether this is the correct policy or not, I agree with you that we will miss these players in the short term. Greenwood and James likely wont replace Lukaku's goals and the midfield is thin at best.

I'm definitely not trying to suggest that everything is rosy and we're in good shape, we're definitely not. But over the next 18-24 months, if the right decisions are made at the club i believe we will be better off without these players.
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This is not about optimism or pessimism. A club like ours can't allow 4 players to leave in positions were they are extremely light in without replacing at least 3 of them. That shows lack of ambition and a high level of incompetence. What many 'optimists' can't understand is that teams are not static. Sure currently we need about 4 players to compete (DM, MC, AMR and STK). However things will probably be very different by the end of the season. Next season Matic, Mata and Young won't be able to play at EPL level anymore while another failure in making it to the CL qualification will see the likes of DDG, Pogba and possibly other players wanting to leave as well. Sure some of the kids might be able to step up. However we're looking here at possibly 6-7 signings that need to be made, some which will cost shitloads of money.
 
Kostur said:
I'm pretty sure that if we really wanted to move Smalling on, we'd have done that. As for Darmian we've had the rumours all year long about Inter/Juve coming in for him yet he's still here, perhaps because we've been haggling over a milion euro here and there while we're happy to pay X% of Sanchez's wages so that we can loan him out. Again, this is not a strategy, it's a scatter gun approach that we're witnessing year in year out ever since Fergie and Gill stepped down. Woodward is about as clueless as you can be. If Ole is seeing use for Jones then he's making his own bed, which leads me to the next point.

This season it seems pretty certain that we'll lose out on CL again, 2nd year in a row, rememeber those articles a couple of years ago that there's an agreement with addidas that if we miss out on CL in subsequent seasons there'll be some cut in the finances? Those articles will start reappearing around new year when it's dead obvious we're not getting into CL. Now this is what will speak to Woodward - numbers, we're losing those, provided he doesn't give a shit about games lost, he'll care about money lost. That's the moment Ole's walking on a thin ice, you genuinely cannot believe that Woodward will keep him for the long term overhaul that we're in such a desperate need for. He'll pull the trigger on him the second things go south. He's done that with his dream signing in Mourinho who was a brand in itself no matter which way you look at it. Ole's not a brand, he doesn't have the glamour about him, he'll pretty much share Moyes' fate here. So a new manager comes in, probably one with a new vision (given we still don't have anything that remotely resembeles a DOF), will need new players, the players will need time to adapt to his philisophy, rinse, repeat, same shit, different season.

And here arises another problem. Building the squad is bound to be problematic when 1) your core players want to leave and 2) you've got nothing to appeal to the players (finishing 6th, 7th, whatever we finish on this season). Do you really see Pogba sticking around when we finish outside of CL again? He's here this season purely because neither Madrid nor Juve were desperate enough to force our hand (it's another matter that in their eyes he's simply not worth fighting tooth and nail for), they'll just wait around for him to kick the shit up via his brothers or Raiola again and force us to sell him for lower price to whoever comes in for him. DDG's another guy who'll probably jump the ship when the time is right, and even considering his recent 'blip' in form, he's still pretty much a vital member of our XI. I don't like Pogba and I'll be happy to see him feck off finally but the fact is he is important to the team and he'll inevitably leave.

So that leaves us with having to spend about ~70-80 mln euro upwards if we want to get a DDG replacement, feck knows what to spend and on whom with Pogba leaving. So there's another year where our budget is forced to be spent on purely replacing the players instead of bolstering and adding to the squad, questionmarks over quality of the replacements too. Take into consideration the cut in money from addidas, yearly talk of 'the market is this way now' (newsflash: it won't be any different next year, or the year after, or the year after) and here we are, perhaps even worse than we have been with no puzzles in the right places again, instead with a shit smeared all over the jigsaw. And this is an optimistic scenario where Pogba/DDG's departures don't trigger other players to reconsider their future (Martial having a good season perhaps? He'll probably jump the ship too; Rashford having a good season and everybody's leaving? His 'logcal lad, academy product' label will be tested to say the least).

It's not doom and gloom, it's pretty much making observations of a last couple of years, taking notes and predicting the scenario based on the info gathered. For me we're inevitably rushing into yet another season of a vicious circle we've been in for some time now. With very few glimmers of hope.
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Spot on, and it's depressing but highly predictable. As long as we have money men ultimately running the football side, things will only get worse.
 
devilish said:
This is not about optimism or pessimism. A club like ours can't allow 4 players to leave in positions were they are extremely light in without replacing at least 3 of them. That shows lack of ambition and a high level of incompetence. What many 'optimists' can't understand is that teams are not static. Sure currently we need about 4 players to compete (DM, MC, AMR and STK). However things will probably be very different by the end of the season. Next season Matic, Mata and Young won't be able to play at EPL level anymore while another failure in making it to the CL qualification will see the likes of DDG, Pogba and possibly other players wanting to leave as well. Sure some of the kids might be able to step up. However we're looking here at possibly 6-7 signings that need to be made, some which will cost shitloads of money.
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Don't think being an optimist or a pessimist has any correlation with an understanding of a situation, moreso a point of view on it, no? Herrera is an average midfielder that performed to a reasonable level in a poor team, Fellanin had his uses but ultimately not good enough. Lukaku and Sanchez are gone to Inter Milan, and bar Juventus that league is poor at best so read into that what you will.

We're not talking about world beaters here, two astute signings could replace the combined contribution of all four players, and probably add more in the process. If we lose Pobga that's another story, but the impact of his loss is only heightened by the situation we're in. If we could afford to lose him, and still have a strong squad, I think nobody would bemoan losing a player with endless quality that only produces for a third of the season.

We've spent massive amounts in the last few years, anyone who claims that there's no money or we have no ambition or Woodward and Glazers are suddenly tight are jumping the gun a little, in my opinion. Woodward has shown no hesitation to spend big over the last 3/4 years and has done so on numerous occasions.

This seems more like a case of spending the money on the right players to me. This summer was a very difficult window, a look across all the top clubs and their transfer dealings (bar Real Madrid) shows how little value in the market there is right now. If Dybala didn't want to come here then so be it, we did the right thing in walking away. Who should we have replaced the 4 outgoings with in your opinion?

I'd rather see us spend big on 4/5 players over the course of 2/3 transfer windows than replace players for the sake of numbers, players who ultimately will also then have to be replaced when we realise they also aren't good enough, which has been our strategy for the last few seasons.
 
eire-red said:
Don't think being an optimist or a pessimist has any correlation with an understanding of a situation, moreso a point of view on it, no? Herrera is an average midfielder that performed to a reasonable level in a poor team, Fellanin had his uses but ultimately not good enough. Lukaku and Sanchez are gone to Inter Milan, and bar Juventus that league is poor at best so read into that what you will.

We're not talking about world beaters here, two astute signings could replace the combined contribution of all four players, and probably add more in the process. If we lose Pobga that's another story, but the impact of his loss is only heightened by the situation we're in. If we could afford to lose him, and still have a strong squad, I think nobody would bemoan losing a player with endless quality that only produces for a third of the season.

We've spent massive amounts in the last few years, anyone who claims that there's no money or we have no ambition or Woodward and Glazers are suddenly tight are jumping the gun a little, in my opinion. Woodward has shown no hesitation to spend big over the last 3/4 years and has done so on numerous occasions.

This seems more like a case of spending the money on the right players to me. This summer was a very difficult window, a look across all the top clubs and their transfer dealings (bar Real Madrid) shows how little value in the market there is right now. If Dybala didn't want to come here then so be it, we did the right thing in walking away. Who should we have replaced the 4 outgoings with in your opinion?

I'd rather see us spend big on 4/5 players over the course of 2/3 transfer windows than replace players for the sake of numbers, players who ultimately will also then have to be replaced when we realise they also aren't good enough, which has been our strategy for the last few seasons.
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Herrera was the second best CM we've had, Fellaini would probably walk in that midfield as well while Lukaku could easily compete with Rashy for a top spot. But that's not the point. We lost players who were quite decent to have around. Instead of bringing upgrades we brought nothing and what we've got are worse to what we've lost whether we like that or not. That's not good enough especially since things will get worse if we don't make it to the CL qualification 2 years in a row
 
devilish said:
Herrera was the second best CM we've had, Fellaini would probably walk in that midfield as well while Lukaku could easily compete with Rashy for a top spot. But that's not the point. We lost players who were quite decent to have around. Instead of bringing upgrades we brought nothing and what we've got are worse to what we've lost whether we like that or not. That's not good enough especially since things will get worse if we don't make it to the CL qualification 2 years in a row
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Bringing in upgrades on those players would have needed a significant outlay, and after splashing 130m on Maguire and Wan Bissaka that is unlikely. The 70m we received for Lukaku should definitely have been reinvested, and Pepe plays in a position we need and was available for that price. Judging on the Liverpool game, he looks a quality player. We should have been in for him as a replacement for Lukaku no doubt.

We've (hopefully) sorted the defence with Maguire and Wan Bissaka. If we can sort out the midfield next summer and then eventually the attack the summer after, then I can accept a seeming lack of depth and quality in the now for a coherent plan that will take us forward in the future, or course contingent on us actually having a plan (which given past history is definitely not a given).

I think you, and all of us definitely have a right to be frustrated, but I just have a feeling that with the two big signings we made this summer, along with not pursuing the Dybala deal, there is finally a recognition of what we have been doing previously has not worked, and a different approach is needed. Whether it's the right one or not, only time will tell, but surely it's better than doing what we have been for the past few seasons.
 
Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku had multiple chances, and failed. I understand people demanding upgrades, new signings, but "missing" those guys is just mental. Their level was Everton, Wolves, Leicester, at best. We ended up 6th with Herrera and Lukaku as part of the Starting XI. There's no way they could have been an integral part of Utd ending up 3rd in 2020 (if it ever happens).

To this day, I'm still frustrated that Sánchez "did a Ronnie" with us and completely lost his edge, motivation and will to play professional football, all while earning a huge wage.
 
devilish said:
This is not about optimism or pessimism. A club like ours can't allow 4 players to leave in positions were they are extremely light in without replacing at least 3 of them. That shows lack of ambition and a high level of incompetence. What many 'optimists' can't understand is that teams are not static. Sure currently we need about 4 players to compete (DM, MC, AMR and STK). However things will probably be very different by the end of the season. Next season Matic, Mata and Young won't be able to play at EPL level anymore while another failure in making it to the CL qualification will see the likes of DDG, Pogba and possibly other players wanting to leave as well. Sure some of the kids might be able to step up. However we're looking here at possibly 6-7 signings that need to be made, some which will cost shitloads of money.
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We really should have got those 4-5 extra players we needed this summer rather than let our side slide further. Short sightedness and incompetence from our owners
 
Crustanoid said:
We really should have got those 4-5 extra players we needed this summer rather than let our side slide further. Short sightedness and incompetence from our owners
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That's my point exactly
 
As Devilish says the problem would be more next summer because we also would have to replace Pogba and DeGea. We should have bought a world class midfield player this season no matter what. That may get us into the CL and I am not confident that this season we will get into the CL spots at all. So no CL and no Pogba and we would have regressed a lot more than now and which top class player is going to come to play at United then? This is a vicious cycle and honestly can anyone say that this team is better than the team LVG won the FA Cup or Jose won the EL?
 
Casanova85 said:
Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku had multiple chances, and failed. I understand people demanding upgrades, new signings, but "missing" those guys is just mental. Their level was Everton, Wolves, Leicester, at best. We ended up 6th with Herrera and Lukaku as part of the Starting XI. There's no way they could have been an integral part of Utd ending up 3rd in 2020 (if it ever happens).

To this day, I'm still frustrated that Sánchez "did a Ronnie" with us and completely lost his edge, motivation and will to play professional football, all while earning a huge wage.
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Herrera didnt fail

that's nonsense
 
Someone in another thread called our situation 'whack a mole' and it's spot on.

We definitely need to replace Matic and sign a RW in the summer - but a terrible season again and two more moles pop up (DDG and Pogba).

Then we've got a middling LB to worry about and the fact our #10 is Lingard or Mata.
 
Casanova85 said:
Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku had multiple chances, and failed. I understand people demanding upgrades, new signings, but "missing" those guys is just mental. Their level was Everton, Wolves, Leicester, at best. We ended up 6th with Herrera and Lukaku as part of the Starting XI. There's no way they could have been an integral part of Utd ending up 3rd in 2020 (if it ever happens).
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What's up with revisionism in so many threads? Neither Fellaini, Herrera or Lukaku 'failed' at United, you can levy that accusation on Sanchez but not on those 3. All of them performed to their actual level, were their level good enough to win the PL? Certainly not but to say they were the reason we finished 6th last season is simply ignorant considering we finished 2nd in the PL in 2018 with all 3 (especially Herrera and Lukaku) as key players in the XI. People are only "missing" those guys because we didn't bother to replace any of them, that's the point of this thread. No one is saying, they are so good that a replacement is simply unbuyable in this market.

As for the Everton, Wolves, Leicester level part? Talk about having head in the sand. In case you forgot, with exception of Fellaini, rest of the players moved to clubs with CL football on offer. They are all ambitious clubs with aim of competing and winning the big prizes for current season. Even if you think they all under-performed for a season or two, still they have been snapped up by CL clubs. While those who have been under-performing for years and years are still collecting wages at our club, see Mata, Jones, Young, Smalling, Rojo, Lingard, Darmian etc. Point me to a single semi-reliable source linking these players to a club with aspirations to win the PL/CL? Heck, you'll be hard pressed to find clubs interested in them have even Europa League football on offer!

The board along with the manager have been highly negligent to allow our squad to be in the state that we're currently in, and it's staggering how many people are happy to lap it all up in the guise of rebuild, transition, youth etc.

While, we're happy to piss away an entire season to check whether number of youth players are good enough for the team or not. A poor season shall have a cascading effect on rest of the squad, if Pogba and De Gea leave that's another 2 key players gone which we have to replace next summer. That is in addition to the key areas in the XI which we ignored this summer which are in dire need of injection of quality. This is not how you plan a rebuild, you don't leave holes to be filled in the squad for the next window because that window might result in new holes to be filled as existing players could leave.

Alabaster Codify7 said:
Someone in another thread called our situation 'whack a mole' and it's spot on.

We definitely need to replace Matic and sign a RW in the summer - but a terrible season again and two more moles pop up (DDG and Pogba).

Then we've got a middling LB to worry about and the fact our #10 is Lingard or Mata.
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Exactly, while we plug the holes which we ignored this summer in 2020. New ones may appear, I can already see us replacing De Gea with Dean Henderson next summer so there's that. We might be the only club in the land who's doing their rebuild by getting rid of existing players by either not replacing them or by replacing them with even worse players. :wenger:
 
I think we should judge this after 10 or 15 games. Yes we have had a up and down start but things are slightly better than last season already. I am hoping that in time Ole will learn to not to play Lingard and focus on coaching fred through this shaky patch. I believe if given the chance and run of 4 or 5 games, he can start to show case the talent he clearly has. Right now we are 5 points from liverpool and 3 from City. Did anyone really expect any different? Spurs Chelsea and Arsenal are our main rivals this season for 3rd and 4th and are almost identical on points. I think Chelsea will grow as the season goes on but there defence looks terrible which may cost them. Arsenal look shaky at the back and will rely on there front line but teams are built on a strong back four, something we now have. I think Spurs will come 3rd, they signed well and are just waiting for this Erikson deal to conclude and will then start to create distance from the rest. Leicester Wolves Everton and possibly one other may look like they will fight for 6th but in reality they won't. There is always one team that looks like they will push the boundary but they cannot last the distance and usually fall apart after Jan. If we focus with youth in the league cup and Europa league, we should be okay and have a fresh team in the league, that is ready to fight from Jan onwards where stamina is important. We will also see a 2 week winter break which could benefit us (as it will with others). I think we will get fourth, it will be a long, frustrating and ole bashing season but for me, i can already see the differences. It is just unfortunate that our owners do not care about football and Ed is Ed. Patience is the key, 6 years have gone, what is another one?
 
yes I expected different . I expected us to e equal to Liverpool and City at this stage. I never expected us not to win at Wolves and also to lose to Palace at OT. Also I do not understand why some people think that Greenwood, Gomes and Garner are going to be successful this season? Also if Ole is going to play them too?
Nothing I have seen from Ole so far has convinced me that he can built a top quality football team to compete even tactically with City and Liverpool or Spurs and Arsenal. He got gazumped by the Old Fox last week.
 
romufc said:
Sorry I meant Shaq and Robertson
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Ah, though to be fair, both were bought from Prem clubs going down, so they were Prem players... neither actually played in the Championship (well Robertson did, but with Hull the season before they went up)
 
There is a meeting taking place between Paul Pogba’s agent Mino Raiola and Manchester United in Montecarlo. #mufc [@tancredipalmeri]
What they're talking about? I really hope they're discussing instagram guy's alloy in Madrid. Next summer we'll buy the right guys who have the first place in football and want to play for United and will be happy.
 
Kush said:
Once again you completely missed the point. Just because players have loads of appearances under their belt doesn't mean they are not going to make silly errors which players of their age will make, it's a natural progression. The problem with our setup is, once those errors arrive, there won't be a hiding place for them, because to replace kids we just have another bunch of kids. We lack the mixture of youth and finished article, experience cannot be solely crystallized to number of games a player has made.



My memory of that season is pretty clear, van Gaal stripped many useful players in the summer window and misplaced his faith in the squad/youth to step up. We sold number of squad players without ever bringing in a replacement. Those minutes might make it look like they were at the periphery but each one of them contributed to that season because of number of mistakes they made in limited minutes they played.



I highlighted where those players are currently plying their trade to point out just because players look good in youth setup doesn't necessarily means they'll make the step up to first team. Ole might've been planning to introduce Gomes, Chong, Greendwood and Garner since last December itself but that doesn't mean it's risk-averse. A careful, planned approach would've meant not to throw kids into the deep end. Rather, integrate them gradually with few appearances in cup/easy matches. Given our dire state of squad, Ole has no option but to rely on them to turn around matches for us. That's the reason why Greenwood came on for Lingard last week when we were chasing the game vs Palace, and poor kid looked scared to get on the ball with 2 Palace players twice his size/power hunting him down.



van Gaals poor tactics led us to a comfortable 4th placed finish the season before even after imploding in the final months. The squad was way too barebones to repeat the same in the following season, it's not like everyone around us magically improved. In fact, every one around us were significantly worse. Chelsea finished 10th, Liverpool 8th and City scraped CL football over us on GD. Leicester won the PL with 81 points that season, the same point tally everyone on here was turning their nose at in 17/18. Context eh?



Selling most prolific striker at the club without replacing is like a signing in itself. Great, Ed Woodward must love fans like you. :wenger:
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I agree with what you say about experience. And even older players are susceptible regardless of how many games they've played. Also keep in mind the mistakes we're talking about are not exactly big feckups. Pogba and Rashford both hit their penalties pretty well. Rashford hit it too well I guess. But this type of thing happens to every player. It's rotten luck that both misses came in back to back games and both cost the team points.

Also the goal conceded by Lindelof missing his header against Schlup had Maguire covering wide left because Shaw had been hobbling a minute before. I think in normal circumstances, Maguire would have been more central and been able to challenge their striker who went through on goal. It was a weird situation overall.

What I said about Lukaku is an exaggeration and meant to be funny. I've often thought having Lukaku in your team is like the opposition having an extra CB. I hated his playing style and the fact he wasn't even good at being a bully. I genuinely believe without Lukaku, the other forwards will be more productive. I might be wrong but so far the overall approach of not hoofing the ball makes me happy. I think it suits Martial and Rashford. Hence the comment.
 
“I said on the way back from tour that we were still looking for one replacement for Romelu if he went,” said the boss. “We’re still one down, but we just didn’t get the right one and we didn’t get the answer we wanted.”

Quote from Solskjaer on the club website. So he definitely wanted a replacement for Rom. Wonder who it was? Also "didn't get the answer we wanted" could allude to us being turned down? Or someone wanting too much money?
 
LS17 said:
“I said on the way back from tour that we were still looking for one replacement for Romelu if he went,” said the boss. “We’re still one down, but we just didn’t get the right one and we didn’t get the answer we wanted.”

Quote from Solskjaer on the club website. So he definitely wanted a replacement for Rom. Wonder who it was? Also "didn't get the answer we wanted" could allude to us being turned down? Or someone wanting too much money?
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Was it Dybala?
 
Casanova85 said:
Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku had multiple chances, and failed. I understand people demanding upgrades, new signings, but "missing" those guys is just mental. Their level was Everton, Wolves, Leicester, at best. We ended up 6th with Herrera and Lukaku as part of the Starting XI. There's no way they could have been an integral part of Utd ending up 3rd in 2020 (if it ever happens).

To this day, I'm still frustrated that Sánchez "did a Ronnie" with us and completely lost his edge, motivation and will to play professional football, all while earning a huge wage.
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The problem is some of the players in the current squad, Lingard, Pereira, James, McT etc.. probably aren’t even Everton, Wolves or Leicester level
 
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