Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Massive Spanner said:
Yeah, what a coincidence..
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I was having that discussion pre-referendum with a friend of mine, in his mid-20s, who was a eurosceptic and intended vote leaver but not an idiotic nationalist. He believed in the single market but not the supra-national political project of the EU. So he intended to vote leave on those grounds.

I explained to him how the campaign will be hijacked by nationalists and extremists who shout the loudest. How it will sow deep division, wreck the political system and generally get very ugly very quickly. How his vote, even though well meaning, will enable all of that.

He said I was exaggerating. He's starting to understand now...
 
Sassy Colin said:
Um, what?
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I was referring to Johnson's entire lack of wit and decorum. And how the old-school connections which have haunted England for centuries enable chancers like Johnson to prosper and succeed.
 
MadMike said:
I was having that discussion pre-referendum with a friend of mine, in his mid-20s, who was a eurosceptic and intended vote leaver but not an idiotic nationalist. He believed in the single market but not the supra-national political project of the EU. So he intended to vote leave on those grounds.

I explained to him how the campaign will be hijacked by nationalists and extremists who shout the loudest. How it will sow deep division, wreck the political system and generally get very ugly very quickly. How his vote, even though well meaning, will enable all of that.

He said I was exaggerating. He's starting to understand now...
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But has he changed his mind now?
 
SteveJ said:
I was referring to Johnson's entire lack of wit and decorum. And how the old-school connections which have haunted England for centuries enable chancers like Johnson to prosper and succeed.
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Your point seemed more than clear to me.
 
Kentonio said:
Interesting. Are you defining 'play nice' as actually standing down to let the other party have a free run?
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Play nice was originally supposed to be defined in the spreadsheet as 'fielding a weaker candidate and not campaigning too much to hurt them' but it seems to have been conflated in some instances with a pact of not standing at all so is not consistent sorry.
 
owlo said:
I'll clarify. Dump them out of power for 10-20 years, rewrite the electoral landscape, and push out the more moderate MP's in place of hard righters.

Destroyed is subjective I guess!
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I don't know about that. There's every chance they could win the election.

And after that they have 5 years where they can play the blame game, saying Remainers caused this by not respecting the referendum result in the first place and giving the country no other option than No Deal. That the alternative was Corbyn Marxism and this was the least bad option.

If you think the electorate won't lap this up, you think very highly of them.
 
Massive Spanner said:
So are the reasons you voted on this issue different than the reasons they listed? Immigration, more NHS money, "taking back control" etc.
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Fair immigration for all, whether from within the EU, or outside.

It's incredibly difficult for people from outside the EU to get citizenship, very expensive and if they want to travel around the EU, they then have a whole host of hoops to jump through.
 
Hahaha, BJ is trying to be like Trump with his names by parroting on 'Absurd Surrender deal' all the time.
 
Maticmaker said:
But has he changed his mind now?
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His stance has softened, but he's also holding some hope yet. He now says that the referendum probably shouldn't have happened, for the reasons mentioned.
But he does still want to see Brexit since it's been voted, though obviously not No Deal of the Tories.
He's a Labour voter anyway, so he'll vote Corbyn and the unicorns of a different deal that will hopefully get through parliament this time 100%.
 
WensleyMU said:
Fair immigration for all, whether from within the EU, or outside.

It's incredibly difficult for people from outside the EU to get citizenship, very expensive and if they want to travel around the EU, they then have a whole host of hoops to jump through.
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So you are prepared to risk the economy of the UK and destroy all the trade agreements, restrict UK citizens being able to live and travel throughout the EU because you're concerned that some chap from Nepal may not get UK citizenship?
 
WensleyMU said:
Fair immigration for all, whether from within the EU, or outside.

It's incredibly difficult for people from outside the EU to get citizenship, very expensive and if they want to travel around the EU, they then have a whole host of hoops to jump through.
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But the UK sets its own laws on non EU Immigration, and there were more non-EU immigrants to the UK than EU immigrants last year, so that renders your argument ... null and void.

Let's say that was the case though, are you happy for "fair immigration" to result in a hard border in Ireland, a massive drop off in the UK economy and your own citizens to have many of their current rights to travel and work in Europe revoked?
 
WensleyMU said:
Let's not get excited, there are many on the remain side also. Tony Blair has more blood than the entirety of the hard right leavers, for example.

The thing is, leavers like me aren't willing to support these scumbags because they happen to vote the same way as me on a single issue.
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The same Blair who won 3 General Elections even after the Iraq war. Not quite sure you can compare that to Farage who lost to someone dressed as a Dolphin.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
So you are prepared to risk the economy of the UK and destroy all the trade agreements, restrict UK citizens being able to live and travel throughout the EU because you're concerned that some chap from Nepal may not get UK citizenship?
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Nope, we should continue to deal with the EU, just without having to preference EU citizens.

What's wrong with people from Nepal?
 
TheGame said:
The same Blair who won 3 General Elections even after the Iraq war. Not quite sure you can compare that to Farage who lost to someone dressed as a Dolphin.
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Did you see the Tory party back then?

I mean come on, even Corbyn would have won an election back then.
 
WensleyMU said:
Nope, we should continue to deal with the EU, just without having to preference EU citizens.

What's wrong with people from Nepal?
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Sure, I agree in principle with you, but why did you think that throwing your lot in with people who are vehemently anti-immigration would make it easier for those non-EU citizens rather than just harder for EU citizens?
 
WensleyMU said:
Nope, we should continue to deal with the EU, just without having to preference EU citizens.

What's wrong with people from Nepal?
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I didn't say there was anything wrong with people from Nepal. Why is this so important to you, you care so much about non-EU people but don't care about UK citizens and want to restrict their rights?
 
What a giant waste of time this is. Every question is just answered with "look at your own party". No substance. Hard to believe that these idiots are in charge of a country.
 
I'm just laughing at the comparison right now

Maybe easier access to the UK for non EU nationals

vs

Potentially returning one of your countries back into a state of violence
A tanked economy
Fecking over your own nations kids right to travel and work in Europe
Fecking over EU nationals already in the UK


Oooof, which side to choose??
 
Massive Spanner said:
I'm just laughing at the comparison right now

Maybe easier access to the UK for non EU nationals

vs

Potentially returning one of your countries back into a state of violence
A tanked economy
Fecking over your own nations kids right to travel and work in Europe
Fecking over EU nationals already in the UK


Oooof, which side to choose??
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Almost like it's not true.
 
SteveJ said:
I was referring to Johnson's entire lack of wit and decorum. And how the old-school connections which have haunted England for centuries enable chancers like Johnson to prosper and succeed.
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Totally agree.
 
WensleyMU said:
Fair immigration for all, whether from within the EU, or outside.

It's incredibly difficult for people from outside the EU to get citizenship, very expensive and if they want to travel around the EU, they then have a whole host of hoops to jump through.
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That’s the only reason you voted leave?
 
WensleyMU said:
Fair immigration for all, whether from within the EU, or outside.

It's incredibly difficult for people from outside the EU to get citizenship, very expensive and if they want to travel around the EU, they then have a whole host of hoops to jump through.
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This is often said, but if we were to cut immigration down to the tens of thousands - as basically any Leaver and indeed lots of Remainers had been arguing in favour of for years - you'd inevitably end up cutting down non-EU immigration as well because that's also in the hundreds of thousands. If you want open immigration for everyone, from everywhere, then you inevitably have to accept a substantial increase in the net migration numbers. And if you are, then that's fair enough, but that can surely be introduced while inside the EU? Again the government have control only non-EU immigration...it's just that they obviously don't want more people coming to Britain. In such a case you've got to wonder if backing their political project is therefore a wise idea for someone who's pro-immigration.
 
The tweet by DUP on the last page is probably referring to the proposals that were leaked to politico (defera report or something).

I had a look through but they're key word level analysis and include suggestions like 'Artificial intelligence' and 'Internet of Things'. The one thing it did call out was that tech couldn't solve the agriculture side which Boris alluded to yesterday saying they'd need an agreement on it. That will be the proposal, ask the EU for one element to be regulated and the rest we'll try cover with tech.
 
I do hope Corbyn rejects GE after the no-deal bill passes today, right wingers would self-destruct then.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Don't be ridiculous, I get a bit fed up with all this "It's Cameron's fault!"
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Was his fault for opening up the referendum just because UKIP were getting noisy.
However he’s far from the worst Tory never mind PM. What’s come after him has been much worse
 
WensleyMU said:
Of course not but I don't think it's worth continuing on for a bunch of snide remarks.
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Well I for one would like to understand where you’re coming from because voting leave for that reason alone seems a bit bonkers
 
Oh dear. Bercow just had to tell the chancellor off for veering off topic in the spending review statement.
 
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golden_blunder said:
Well I for one would like to understand where you’re coming from because voting leave for that reason alone seems a bit bonkers
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Especially when it's something that could quite conceivably be achieved inside the EU. There'd be nothing stopping a government from allowing non-EU migrants to enter as easy as EU ones.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Don't be ridiculous, I get a bit fed up with all this "It's Cameron's fault!"
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It was his fault though. He built his political career as a high stakes gambler and figured he might as well do the same with the EU question. The moment he lost a hand, he quit the game and left the party and country in the hands of incompetents and radicals.

He is the direct triggering cause of the madness. With a wiser prime minister none of this would have happened, and even if it did, would have been better mitigated.
 
In a way this is alle Scotlands fault though. If they had voted yes to independence, Cameron would have resigned, Miliband might have won the election and we'd all be singing kumbaya
 
Sassy Colin said:
Don't be ridiculous, I get a bit fed up with all this "It's Cameron's fault!"
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How is it not his fault? The referendum was basically an ego trip for him, and he's fecked the country because of it.
 
B20 said:
It was his fault though. He built his political career as a high stakes gambler and figured he might as well do the same with the EU question. The moment he lost a hand, he quit the game and left the party and country in the hands of incompetents and radicals.

He is the direct triggering cause of the madness. With a wiser prime minister none of this would have happened, and even if it did, would have been better mitigated.
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I agree that Cameron's gamble on the referendum was the single biggest error in all this, by a long way too but there was no way he could have continued as Prime Minister after he lost. Him and Osbourne were committed remainers.
 
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