Has political correctness actually gone mad?

[Halftrack]

Oh I have a few trans lesbian friends who are in agreement, how many do you have?

Also regarding gender fluid non binary identities suffering dysphoria, I've never said they don't except the difference is separating those people from the fetishists is extremely hard to do, I mean we could make them all walk around with, ya know, yellow stars but look what happened that last time.

Your username should have been Onetrack.

Again, what gives you any expert knowledge in the area if trans politics? I'm still waiting to hear about your credentials that you were so keen in bragging about. And "talking to a couple of people who identify as gender fluid" doesn't mean you now have a doctorate.

It's good to see you (partially, at least) acknowledge that non-binaries deserve to be treated with the same respect and dignity as everyone else. As for separating them from the fetishists: If you assume that the majority are genuine, and treat them accordingly, you'll be correct while also doing the only right thing. Treating someone like shit for someone else's actions is never the right thing to do.

You seem to be trying to call me out for saying something I haven't said. Expert knowledge or being trans is not required to argue against the idea that non-binaries are predominantly perverted men. Hell, I'll do a quick recap of what we've gone over:

• I told someone that them claiming genderfluids had to be mentally ill showed that they clearly had no idea what they were talking about. You then responded, telling me that I didn't either (insinuating that genderfluids are, in fact, mentally ill).
• You posted some frankly gross, unfounded and straight up bigoted generalisations of genderfluids, which I hit back at. I also called you out for echoing accusations most often leveled at the transgendered community by transphobes (at this point, I had no way of knowing you were trans, so it's hardly fair to crticise me for that).
• At this point, you felt you had a gotcha moment, and decided to point out that I had called you, a transwoman, a transphobe. I hadn't. Firstly, because I hadn't, and secondly, because I had no way of knowing you were trans.
• I said you were gatekeeping, because by saying genderfluids are mostly perverted men you were. You did it some more by supporting autogynephilia as an idea, seeing as it denies lesbian transwomen their identity by labeling them (all of them) as fetishists. You are free to disagree, of course, but by denying someone their identity, and thus their place in the community, you are acting (or at least trying to act) as a gatekeeper.
• I asked if you agreed with Blair White about not supporting lesbian transwomen, about not treating transwomen who don't pass as women, and about non-binaries being "trans-retarded", something you refused to answer in favour of insinuating that I'm not in a position to argue against you.

Note that at no point did I deny your experience or your identity, nor did I question them (not that it's worth anything to you, coming from me and all, but I have nothing but respect and admiration for that aspect of you). Neither have I denied the problems transwomen face, nor that non-binaries factor into this (I mean, I even agreed with two of the points you made while you were busy trying to shame me for arguing with you.)

So I ask you: What have I said, what claims have I made, that would require me to be an expert or to be trans in order to make? And when did I ever imply, or brag about, expert knowledge? Was it because I argued against Blanchard's claim that there are only two types of transwomen, "real" ones and male fetishists? Because I feel pretty comfortable arguing against such a bigoted claim.

Is the internet article wrong? I said I'm taking it with a pinch of salt so open to being educated on it.

The one on Blair White? No, it's entirely correct, the woman is massively bigoted.

 

[WensleyMU]

I'm not telling you but I left the most recent a few months before July 2018. You're going to have to be more specific though, just saying what you said means nothing.

You would have to see it to believe it.

A question might ask, which of these 3 candidates would you promote. One of these answers might subtly claim you are racist because of institutional racism, and suggest diversity training.

No background on the candidates is given, no detail of the position they currently hold or are being promoted to.

It's little more than a way to say you are racist if you pick the wrong option.

It's absurd.

There are much better ways to frame such a question, where in reality there should be no right or wrong answer. But we only convert what they send to SCORMs and then test them frequently. It's not for us to comment on the content, at least in the workplace.

Because we can enable or disable content dependant on region, this sort of content might appear in EMEA and NAM markets, but not in APAC, obviously at the clients discretion. Always struck me as odd as well.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I used to prefer the old internet days, when if someone got outraged over stupid shit you could just call them a daft cnut and move on with your day.

You still can but not on this forum. You can call their post daft but not the person themselves.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Does this person dress in male clothes when identifying as Callum and female clothes when identifying as Abi?

If yes then it should be easy enough for everyone they work with to know which name to call them on that day i suppose.

Are you saying that there are gender specific clothes? If so what is off limits for a male and what is off limits for a female?

 

[Shamwow]

You would have to see it to believe it.

A question might ask, which of these 3 candidates would you promote. One of these answers might subtly claim you are racist because of institutional racism, and suggest diversity training.

No background on the candidates is given, no detail of the position they currently hold or are being promoted to.

It's little more than a way to say you are racist if you pick the wrong option.

It's absurd.

There are much better ways to frame such a question, where in reality there should be no right or wrong answer. But we only convert what they send to SCORMs and then test them frequently. It's not for us to comment on the content, at least in the workplace.

Because we can enable or disable content dependant on region, this sort of content might appear in EMEA and NAM markets, but not in APAC, obviously at the clients discretion. Always struck me as odd as well.

To be honest I don't trust your account of things but subconscious racism is a massive issue in recruitment.

 

[Vato]

I can comfortably say that I know a lot more than you.

so you are telling a transgendered person that they are transphobic? Let me get this straight, you are telling me you know more than myself?

This is me by the way. Are you really saying the above? That you know more about being transgender than I myself?

https://www.instagram.com/candifluffy/

Vintage caf

 

[Grinner]

Vintage caf

Contender for post of the year for me.

 

[Vato]

Contender for post of the year for me.

Agreed.

 

[Halftrack]

Vintage caf

What? The comment was in response to the insinuation that non-binary people are mentally ill. That's a factually incorrect statement. In fact, none of her statements or claims about non-binary people are supported by facts or science. Her being trans doesn't change that.

I think it's laughable you're calling the transwoman transphobic.

What? Where?

 

[Vato]

What? The comment was in response to the insinuation that non-binary people are mentally ill. That's a factually incorrect statement. In fact, none of her statements or claims about non-binary people are supported by facts or science. Her being trans doesn't change that.

Look, I really don't want to be a dick to you but this should serve as a reminder to not throw accusations around like some of you like to do so much. Especially over a conversation in small pieces of text, when you actually can't really be sure who is on the other end. It's hard to form such a strong opinion about someone over exchanges in text imo. Some things when read sound much harsher than a person really intended.

Granted, in some cases it could indeed be a bigot, a transphobe, a racist, etc, but in other cases it's often just someone with a different opinion on a certain topic. But like with most social issues, tempers fly high as a lot of people take them very personal.

What I'm basically saying, is that with name calling and putting people in boxes, (like both the left and the right like to do all the time) we're not going to solve anything. It will only divide people further.

 

[berbatrick]

Do you mean he only recruits Asian women, or that the only women he recruits are Asian? There are plenty of cantankerous blinkered old professors out there with major hiring biases, which I guess is difficult to combat other than waiting for them to retire. On the other hand, depending on the field, if it's a tiny pool of people with both knowledge of the specific field and maths background, it's not out the bounds of reason to assume most of the women meeting those criteria will be Asian anyway.

I do know of several young female PIs who are only interested in having all-female labs. From the students they take on to the technicians and postdocs. Hard to say really where I stand on that sort of thing.

The latter. All kinds of men but only Asian women. A friend of a friend is in the lab so I don't know what his other restrictions might be, but I do know that there are non-Asian men in the lab.

Yes, nothing can happen till he fecks off by dying or going senile.

I personally know one non-East Asian woman capable of working in that lab, and it's not my field or my university so I guess there are more.

I think all-female labs aren't good. It will also heavily limit their students' prospects since academia is all incestuous neworking. I have a female PI, who is very into diversity, but there are other men besides myself around in lab.

Sounds suspiciously 'made up' or if not, subject to a discrimination case.

I explained why no one takes action. Can't rock the boat since you'll drown too.

 

[Casanova85]

Recently I've heard-read that many people consider that hens live like sexual slaves forced to procreate.

The disgusting patriarchy of the cock, literally.

 

[stevoc]

Are you saying that there are gender specific clothes? If so what is off limits for a male and what is off limits for a female?

No not really, having said that Male and Female London Police uniforms are slightly different. What i was getting at though is if this person dresses differently depending on what they identify as that day then it should be no problem for their workmates to know whether to call them Callum or Abi.

 

[Shamwow]

Look, I really don't want to be a dick to you but this should serve as a reminder to not throw accusations around like some of you like to do so much. Especially over a conversation in small pieces of text, when you actually can't really be sure who is on the other end. It's hard to form such a strong opinion about someone over exchanges in text imo. Some things when read sound much harsher than a person really intended.

Granted, in some cases it could indeed be a bigot, a transphobe, a racist, etc, but in other cases it's often just someone with a different opinion on a certain topic. But like with most social issues, tempers fly high as a lot of people take them very personal.

What I'm basically saying, is that with name calling and putting people in boxes, (like both the left and the right like to do all the time) we're not going to solve anything. It will only divide people further.

I dunno how you can look at the horrible shit that Rudie is saying and come to any conclusion other than she is a bigot. Did you read https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Blaire_White? This is who she had claimed to be very similar to.

 

[Halftrack]

Look, I really don't want to be a dick to you but this should serve as a reminder to not throw accusations around like some of you like to do so much. Especially over a conversation in small pieces of text, when you actually can't really be sure who is on the other end. It's hard to form such a strong opinion about someone over exchanges in text imo. Some things when read sound much harsher than a person really intended.

Granted, in some cases it could indeed be a bigot, a transphobe, a racist, etc, but in other cases it's often just someone with a different opinion on a certain topic. But like with most social issues, tempers fly high as a lot of people take them very personal.

What I'm basically saying, is that with name calling and putting people in boxes, (like both the left and the right like to do all the time) we're not going to solve anything. It will only divide people further.

Thing is, I didn't call her a transphobe. I didn't even call her statement transphobic. Without knowing her gender at the time, the impression I got was that she was pro trans-rights, but misattributed some of the problems they face to non-binaries. She did this by claiming dudes dress up as women and claim to be genderqueer in order to go into ladies restrooms and have a wank. I pointed out that said claim has no basis in reality, and that's it's the go-to argument for transphobes wanting to deny transpersons their rights. When someone repeats a harmful and factually untrue talking point like that, it's only fair to point out its primary purpose, on the off chance that they might actually not have realised it wasn't factual.

That was a mistake by me. The mistake being that I assumed she used it because she didn't know it was false. Turns out she used it to support the shockingly bigoted claim that most non-binaries are pervert men who fetishes being women while wanking in ladies rooms. That's a level of bigotry you'll normally have to go to 4chan to find.

 

[Jippy]

Oh I have a few trans lesbian friends who are in agreement, how many do you have?

Also regarding gender fluid non binary identities suffering dysphoria, I've never said they don't except the difference is separating those people from the fetishists is extremely hard to do, I mean we could make them all walk around with, ya know, yellow stars but look what happened last time.

Your username should have been Onetrack.

Again, what gives you any expert knowledge in the area of trans politics? I'm still waiting to hear about your credentials that you were so keen in bragging about. And "talking to a couple of people who identify as gender fluid" doesn't mean you now have a doctorate.

 

[Halftrack]

Double the amount of track of my current one, at least

 

[hobbers]

I think all-female labs aren't good. It will also heavily limit their students' prospects since academia is all incestuous neworking. I have a female PI, who is very into diversity, but there are other men besides myself around in lab.

Yeah it's probably harshest on the students. Bit of a stereotype I know but two of these all female labs I know of both outsource almost all of their data analysis. So by default their students dont get the same level of exposure to managing data and statistics that most other students are getting.

 

[VorZakone]

Gender fluid non binary identities.......the feck does that mean?

 

[Cascarino]

I think it's laughable you're calling the transwoman transphobic.

You think being a transwoman means you can’t hold transphobic views?

If a black man went around saying that black people are inherently evil, I think it’s safe to say he has racist views.

 

[Rudie]

You think being a transwoman means you can’t hold transphobic views?

If a black man went around saying that black people are inherently evil, I think it’s safe to say he has racist views.

Of course they can but since there's no scientific evidence to support non binary and the hundreds of genders that are out there then it's a bit like being bigoted against Smurfs, those little blue bastards (no offense to anyone who identifies as one by the way).



Do I think that Sam Smith is (with an eye on self promotion and current trends) courageous and strong because they've come out as non binary? Because they now prefer to use the pronouns they/them? Of course I don't, let's get real here. Do I think it devalues the process of coming out for members of the LGBT community? Of course it does.

And I and thousands of transpeople don't appreciate them jumping on the transgender bandwagon because it makes an already under attack minority that bit less valid, it actually makes a mockery of being transgender. No, medical diagnosis, I'll just identify as a twerp and if you don't use my pronouns, twe and twem then you're transphobic!

Do I believe that gender psychologists are an important part of the pathway to changing gender where other psychological conditions may be attributed, yes, do I think it protects against the irreversible changes that the process brings, yes.

Whereas, for someone to call me evil for having those views when I face real evil and bigotry each and every day I step out the door, well it's quite ironic.

It's also a massive slap in the face for victims of real bigotry, such as the lady who set herself on fire in Iran because she wasn't allowed to watch football and live as the Woman she was, with equal rights let alone be able to define herself and be able to switch as and when her privilege allowed. If only huh.

 

[Rudie]

I dunno how you can look at the horrible shit that Rudie is saying and come to any conclusion other than she is a bigot. Did you read https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Blaire_White? This is who she had claimed to be very similar to.

Hey you're not the gate keeper of bigotry! (see what I did there?)

Because rationalwiki, that totally independent and 100% truthful source of information wouldn't lie and isn't just someone's view! I'm sure that'll hold some sway in a court of law.

Yeah, I'm a bigot for saying that transgender girls deserve better, to not be told that their identities mean nothing because they'll be lost in a sea with thousands of others, that they are more then a fetish and can actually contribute to society.

What a bigot I am!

I agree with some of what Blaire White has to say and as a Woman will defend her right to say it.

My partner who is a lesbian and gay liaison officer with over 10 years service and has organised and policed many pride events was called a rapist by these people. I've had transphobic slurs made against me and they've used being transgender and non binary themselves as their defence. (This case is currently in the courts.)

And we're both massive bigots.

Woke didn't just eat itself, it's sat in the corner swaying and muttering uncontrollably about pronouns, transphobia and political correctness.

 

[Rudie]

Gender fluid non binary identities.......the feck does that mean?

Https://t.co/QKObyqthtU

 

[Halftrack]

I agree with some of what Blaire White has to say and as a Woman will defend her right to say it.

I'd suggest anyone who interested watching some of Blaire White, she and myself hold very similar views.

"Hold very similar views" and "agree with some of what she says" are two very different things. For example, I agree with some of what Joe Biden says, but I hold very similar views to Bernie Sanders. The opposite is not true. So I think you're actually full of shit.

Yeah, I'm a bigot for saying that transgender girls deserve better, to not be told that their identities mean nothing because they'll be lost in a sea with thousands of others, that they are more then a fetish and can actually contribute to society.

No, you're a bigot for lying about, grossly mischaracterising (you know, like how you're right now mischaracterising the reason for people calling you a bigot) and denying the identities of non-binaries. It's amazing how hard this is for you to grasp. You are not a victim here, you're an aggressor (and since you seem to struggle with simple concepts, by "here" I mean this thread on RedCafe.)

As a member of the LGBQT community, all I can say is thank feck the majority of us don't share your abhorrent views.

 

[Rudie]

"Hold very similar views" and "agree with some of what she says" are two very different things. For example, I agree with some of what Joe Biden says, but I hold very similar views to Bernie Sanders. The opposite is not true. So I think you're actually full of shit.

As a member of the LGBQT community, all I can say is thank feck the majority of us don't share your abhorrent views.

Holding similar views is sharing similar views, views on non binaries and views on people like Jessica Yaniv etc. Sorry I didn't think I had to list each one.

I suppose being all inclusive you fully support the transgender individual that Blaire is talking about here? Well I guess you must do because you couldn't possibly share similar views with Blaire right?



Also, you seem to be taking this personally, I forgot to ask you your pronouns didn't I? Is that it? Lemme guess, are they 'snow/flake'?

Oh enlighten me on your LGBQT credentials oh wise one. And try to do it without shouting bigot! It's tiresome.

 

[Shamwow]

Hey you're not the gate keeper of bigotry! (see what I did there?)

Because rationalwiki, that totally independent and 100% truthful source of information wouldn't lie and isn't just someone's view! I'm sure that'll hold some sway in a court of law.

You haven't actually said that it is lying though.

 

[Rudie]

You haven't actually said that it is lying though.

Did my sarcasm allude you? Why don't you watch the video from the previous post and let me know if you support the individual in question. If not then you've answered your own questions.

Oh and remember inclusiveness means inclusive of all, otherwise you're just gate keeping and ya know, a bigot.

 

[Halftrack]

Holding similar views is sharing similar views, views on non binaries and views on people like Jessica Yaniv etc. Sorry I didn't think I had to list each one.

I just pointed out that you made two very different claims with regard to the similarity between your's and White's views.

I suppose being all inclusive you fully support the transgender individual that Blaire is talking about here? Well I guess you must do because you couldn't possibly share similar views with Blaire right?

I have no objection to calling out individuals who cause harm to the community by acting like morons. I have simply objected to condemning a whole group, and especially doing so through spreading disgusting falsehoods.

Also, you seem to be taking this personally, I forgot to ask you your pronouns didn't I? Is that it? Lemme guess, are they 'snow/flake'?

Nothing personal, it doesn't affect me. I'm just equipped with the ability to empathise, and basic human decency, so I try not to shy away from calling out bigotry.

Oh enlighten me on your LGBQT credentials oh wise one. And try to do it without shouting bigot! It's tiresome.

So that you can question and mock my experiences? Nah, I'm good. You see, I have very little faith that you won't trivialise and belittle me for it.

 

[Rudie]

So that you can question and mock my experiences? Nah, I'm good. You see, I have very little faith that you won't trivialise and belittle me for it.

Fair enough, now I just feel bad so I'll leave it, contrary to popular belief I don't think anyone should be belittled but also nothing immune from sceptism. I fight for survival and am militant with it and see the damage done by fetishists who damage all including people they claim to represent but I see how it can be construed. I apologise for causing any offense.

 

[WensleyMU]

To be honest I don't trust your account of things but subconscious racism is a massive issue in recruitment.

That's fine, you wouldn't know either way ultimately.

And the message isn't wrong, it's how its presented that smacks of political correctness.

 

[caid]

Fair enough, now I just feel bad so I'll leave it, contrary to popular belief I don't think anyone should be belittled but also nothing immune from sceptism. I fight for survival and am militant with it and see the damage done by fetishists who damage all including people they claim to represent but I see how it can be construed. I apologise for causing any offense.

You've used this term a lot, could you sometimes be jumping to conclusions about their reasoning? I presume its an odd and confusing transition and some parts of life take a while to figure out how to navigate? I have no idea how to react to the 6 year old personally.
I agree with Vato incidentally. Theres usually a few people to jump into attack mode with an out of place sentence. Often enough for good reason tbf but its probably unnecessary. Give them enough rope to hang themselves.

 

[Shane88]

That pic is fecked.

 

[owlo]

Please correct me if I'm wrong in summarising the last few pages:

Trans person [rudie] is railing against self determination and self identity, decrying the fetish community as 'dark and twisted and not genuine' and a disgusting problem to trans people and rights. (And I see only using imagery of men doing this when they know full well it's both genders fetishising such stuff)

Basically abusing a subset of their own community, that they don't approve of, because their personal feelings can't handle it.

The rest of people, are putting up with it. Because well, a trans person knows better.

My question: Why should anybody be more tolerant to one group than another? If somebody wants to dress up as a dog because it suits their identity then so fecking be it; why should they get abuse from intolerant swine? Live and let live.

Why should a doctor define being gay or trans any more valid than being into S&M or dressing up as a dog or koala bear or dolphin? As a CIS white male, I see no reason to be less tolerant to a girl dressed as a pony, than to a trans person.

 

[Rudie]

Basically abusing a subset...

I see no reason to be less tolerant to a girl dressed as a pony, than to a trans person.

Wow, so much wrong in one post from someone trying to sound inclusive.

Lost your whole argument there, anyone dressed up as anything isn't trans or a subset and neither is S&M. Sorry but you've just shown how ignorant you are

And I've never said that having a fetish is bad, saying you're transgender because of your fetish or your fetish makes you transgender however is wrong and damages an entire community.

 

[owlo]

Wow, so much wrong in one post from someone trying to sound inclusive.

Lost your whole argument there, a girl dressed isn't trans or a subset and neither is S&M. Sorry but you've just shown how bigoted you are

And I've never said that having a fetish is bad, saying you're transgender because of your fetish or your fetish makes you transgender however is.

If they want to be included in a community as you identify with that community, and are told 'sorry you can't be because you don't qualify as I don't recognise your feelings as valid' - surely that's literally the definition of being exclusive, simply because you don't approve of their self identity?

And yes you have; the last few pages you've been ridiculing them.

ps. You need to look up the definition of bigoted. The only group I'm outwardly hostile to is pattern day traders on commodities. Yet I still accept they want to be defined as serious folk, even if they are clowns dressed up as them.

 

[Rudie]

If they want to be included in a community as you identify with that community, and are told 'sorry you can't be because you don't qualify as I don't recognise your feelings as valid' - surely that's literally the definition of being exclusive, simply because you don't approve of their self identity?

And yes you have; the last few pages you've been ridiculing them.

ps. You need to look up the definition of bigoted. The only group I'm outwardly hostile to is pattern day traders on commodities. Yet I still accept they want to be defined as serious folk, even if they are clowns dressed up as them.

Are you serious right now? Because I'm not sure if you are...

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

So that you can question and mock my experiences? Nah, I'm good. You see, I have very little faith that you won't trivialise and belittle me for it.

To be blunt, you've come off that way in this thread as well. I think its time for you to just take a step back and let things sit instead of continuing. You've made your point, no need to pound it into the ground.

And @Rudie please don't use that snowflake buzzword anymore. It never helps and isn't funny either.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Wow, so much wrong in one post from someone trying to sound inclusive.

Lost your whole argument there, a girl dressed isn't trans or a subset and neither is S&M. Sorry but you've just shown how bigoted you are

I'm going to regret getting involved in this but how can that be a bigoted position? Bigotry requires intolerance which is the precise opposite of the poster's point. You may disagree with the argument made, or the language used, but it is clearly not a bigoted position by definition of the word.

 

[Rudie]

I'm going to regret getting involved in this but how can that be a bigoted position? Bigotry requires intolerance which is the precise opposite of the poster's point. You may disagree with the argument made, or the language used, but it is clearly not a bigoted position by definition of the word.

Lacking a basic understanding of the definition of transgender, believing that being transgender is akin to dressing up, believing that fetishism is a subset, need I go on?

 

[owlo]

I'm going to regret getting involved in this but how can that be a bigoted position? Bigotry requires intolerance which is the precise opposite of the poster's point. You may disagree with the argument made, or the language used, but it is clearly not a bigoted position by definition of the word.

Crazy thing is this - for years [and still] the Gay community heavily discriminated against the trans community, calling it sick and perverted and not 'real' LGB etc etc. Almost using the exact language and imagery that Rudie is now using. Now the trans community is doing the same thing to others. Heavily belittling others with every word. Literally the kind of bile that causes suicides.

It's also people like this that cause the average Joe to start discriminating more too, simply due to the pure hypocrisy and craziness.

I feel so lucky that I'm a straight guy, but at university we had a trans guy who ended up killing himself due to similar abuse. Under and Post grad at Cambridge, smashing the honours, yet not accepted by his own community, parents, or anybody else. Having to take refuge in the History department in a different college because a group of trans people had decided he wasn't 'proper.' Then the ultimate humiliation at the funeral, the parents insisting the tombstone had the name Emily. I'm sure there are loads of similar stories around the world.

Gonna not get involved further either - people like this make my blood boil.