Zidane sack watch - 19/20

Caesar2290 said:
The only one I can think of that was incredibly succesful was Jupp Heynecks with Bayern(his 2nd spell)

I think Real's domination is done, not because of Zidane, but because of Ronaldo. People tend to forget that Real couldn't get past the round of 16 for 8 years in a row. Ronaldo's insane numbers created an illusion that Real was bigger than it was. And now that he left it is showing. Even if they bring Neymar/Mbappe they will still struggle to reach the heights of prior years. You can't replace a 50+ goal per season player.

As soon as Messi will leave Barca, the same fate awaits them.
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Yeah, keep repeating yourself that. The Caf's mantra since 2014 at least. Barça post-Messi is not going to sink as low as Arsenal or ManUtd; easier Liga tbw.

Madrid hugely misses CR, but it's also about Floren not replacing other key players (and in decline) like Modric, Marcelo, Kroos, Benzema, etc. Plus a sudden dip in quality by Casemiro and Varane.
 
Zidane is starting to look like another example that proves the old maxim "never go back" in life.
 
Casanova85 said:
His greatest achievement will always be resurrecting a lost team in Jan '16 (built around CR-Benzema-Bale-Kroos-Modrid-Casemiro-Ramos) and gaining enough momentum to reach a UCL and win it against Atlético in the penalties. The great 16-17 season, Liga+UCL double, was still part of that winter-spring 2016 momentum.

After that it went downhill. The 17-18 UCL title was mainly CR's (not facing Barça also helped) but LaLiga campaign was bad enough. It was a mistake coming back, especially in winter 2019. Solari should have finished the season. It's the polar opposite of 2016.

I don't know if Floren will sack him or not before Xmas, but one thing is for sure: Zidane needed/needs CR just as much as Pep needed/needs Messi.
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I think the 16-17 title was more of CR's and not 17-18. In that season, after the goals vs Juve away, only thing he did across the second leg, the two semis and the final was that one penalty vs Juve. That year was a complete team performance and Karius gifting it away in the final.
 
Sir Scott McToMinay said:
So you want to see our only creative player leave just to prove some weird point?
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not a weird point, he doesnt want to be here, he has said it, his brother keeps on saying it and his agent has stated it..... the grass isnt always greener, but if thats weird to you then ok. Plus we would replace him with a player that would actually give his 100% in every match unlike pogba
 
Leftback99 said:
Or Jardim. Strange how these managers performance drops when the players they have aren't as good or on the decline. Maybe we could learn something when judging our own manager.
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Nah mate it's obviously way better to think that one of these other managers will be our saviour. Worked a charm last time.. and the one before..
 
wr8_utd said:
I think the 16-17 title was more of CR's and not 17-18. In that season, after the goals vs Juve away, only thing he did across the second leg, the two semis and the final was that one penalty vs Juve. That year was a complete team performance and Karius gifting it away in the final.
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Could be; to be fair, the 16-18 titles were nearly identical (CR top scorer, relatively easy draws + pre-VAR controversy in the QFs/semis) and I keep confusing data.
 
Casanova85 said:
Madrid hugely misses CR, but it's also about Floren not replacing other key players (and in decline) like Modric, Marcelo, Kroos, Benzema, etc. Plus a sudden dip in quality by Casemiro and Varane
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Not replacing Ronaldo was because they expected Bale to take up the mantle.

I don't get where you getting this not replacing key players from?

Benzema scored 30 goals last year - not in decline
Modric was Ballon D'or winner
Kroos is still 28
Varane is still quite young

And replacing, they bought a new LB to replace Marcelo, they bought in Vinicius to be a trickery winger, Hazard, with the young talent they have in Asensio, Lucas Vasquez.

They were after Paul Pogba in Mid, they have Isco and James too.

Bought in Jovic to help out Benzema.
 
Freak said:
Would be funny if they sacked him and hired Mourinho. Actually that would be great.
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Really need Zidane to start pulling up trees. I think our only option to continue the rebuild depends on the sale of Pogba to RM in the Summer. I don't see Pogba rushing to join them if Mourinho's in charge.
 
romufc said:
Not replacing Ronaldo was because they expected Bale to take up the mantle.

I don't get where you getting this not replacing key players from?

Benzema scored 30 goals last year - not in decline
Modric was Ballon D'or winner
Kroos is still 28
Varane is still quite young

And replacing, they bought a new LB to replace Marcelo, they bought in Vinicius to be a trickery winger, Hazard, with the young talent they have in Asensio, Lucas Vasquez.

They were after Paul Pogba in Mid, they have Isco and James too.

Bought in Jovic to help out Benzema.
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Kroos has been mostly abysmal since late 2017, both with Germany and Madrid-couldn't care less if he's not even 30. Modric's 18-19 season was bad and Pogba should have been signed this summer for real.
Benzema? The guy who scores mostly irrelevant goals and was the SS to CR?
Bale was always injury prone. That alone makes him a Great Co-Starring Role but not a Franchise Player.
Vinicious is not even as good as Robinho.
Their new LB? The one who's not playing? Another Danilo?
Courtois is past-it and letting Navas go will bite Floren in the ass, hard.
Any other era and Madrid would have signed DeLigt, especially with Raiola pulling the strings, but Floren has lost it.
Finally, anyone expecting Hazard to replace CR must be in denial.

Conclusion: they still need Pogba, Neymar or Mbappé, a new RFW, a new DMF and a new Top LB and CB. Ramos is also getting old so perhaps TWO CBs.
Real is so lucky LaLiga resembles Serie A or Bundesliga. If it was as competitive as the PL they would be fecked up, like Man Utd or Arsenal.
 
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Casanova85 said:
Kroos has been mostly abysmal since late 2017, both with Germany and Madrid-couldn't care less if he's not even 30. Modric's 18-19 season was bad and Pogba should have been signed this summer for real.
Benzema? The guy who scores mostly irrelevant goals and was the SS to CR?
Bale was always injury prone. That alone makes him a Great Co-Starring Role but not a Franchise Player.
Vinicious is not even as good as Robinho.
Their new LB? The one who's not playing? Another Danilo?
Courtois is past-it and letting Navas go will bite Floren in the ass, hard.
Any other era and Madrid would have signed DeLigt, especially with Raiola pulling the strings, but Floren has lost it.
Finally, anyone expecting Hazard to replace CR must be in denial.

Conclusion: they still need Pogba, Neymar or Mbappé, a new RFW, a new DMF and a new Top LB and CB. Ramos is also getting old so perhaps TWO CBs.
Real is so lucky LaLiga resembles Serie A or Bundesliga. If it was as competitive as the PL they would be fecked up, like Man Utd or Arsenal.
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They signed Militao as well so I don't think they could possibly sign De Ligt as well when they already have Ramos and Varane too.
 
Still don't see Zidane's hysteria because Pogba didn't join, Pogba is a luxury addition to a stem of players they have which fit the same category. He isn't going to change the entire club's fortunes.

The players are ageing but they aren't obsolete, Zidane should be getting more out of his team. If anything Ronaldo leaving just highlights his inadequacy as a coach.
 
Casanova85 said:
Kroos has been mostly abysmal since late 2017, both with Germany and Madrid-couldn't care less if he's not even 30. Modric's 18-19 season was bad and Pogba should have been signed this summer for real.
Benzema? The guy who scores mostly irrelevant goals and was the SS to CR?
Bale was always injury prone. That alone makes him a Great Co-Starring Role but not a Franchise Player.
Vinicious is not even as good as Robinho.
Their new LB? The one who's not playing? Another Danilo?
Courtois is past-it and letting Navas go will bite Floren in the ass, hard.
Any other era and Madrid would have signed DeLigt, especially with Raiola pulling the strings, but Floren has lost it.
Finally, anyone expecting Hazard to replace CR must be in denial.

Conclusion: they still need Pogba, Neymar or Mbappé, a new RFW, a new DMF and a new Top LB and CB. Ramos is also getting old so perhaps TWO CBs.
Real is so lucky LaLiga resembles Serie A or Bundesliga. If it was as competitive as the PL they would be fecked up, like Man Utd or Arsenal.
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Pogba doesn't fix Real's issues though. They needed a Kante more than a Pogba. They have more than enough attacking players and even players who can play that link role between midfield and attack.

I can't believe the player who said why take the engine out of a Ferrari when Perez sold Makalele, is now the manager who is wanting a luxury player like Pogba as the supposed missing piece of a team which has almost no defensive awareness in midfield and is overloaded in terms of talent in attacking positions.
 
Casanova85 said:
Ramos is a veteran player who will be gone sooner than later. Varane has had a dip in quality. Real needed/need Koulibaly and DeLigt.
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Ramos is still going to play though and wouldn't get dropped. They brought in Militao who is highly regarded as well so they've got options at CB. I'm not sure De Ligt would have come in to sit on the bench and besides, he's not started that well at Juve either. He's defending as badly as anything at Madrid.
 
padzilla said:
Zidane is starting to look like another example that proves the old maxim "never go back" in life.
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He was never the Messiah in the first place. He fell for his own hype (as others have mentioned, on the back of Ronnie's brilliance) and is now paying the price.
 
DoneDaDa said:
What he achieved is amazing, nevertheless that's were it ends, on a tactically side he was nothing special. He was free almost the entire year yet no club sniffed around him, even though he was a 3peat CL winner. Eventually with Perez failed managers he got him back as Madrid needed a manager and Zidane needed a job it was the best job for him.
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Because most teams had already a manager? How many managers changed their positions this summer? Only Juve and Chelsea.

If he had waited till summer he would have got the Juve ahead of Sarri 100% for me.
 
A quick check on the La Liga table suggests they haven't got off to a bad start to the season, yes they lost last night but that was undoubtedly their hardest game of the UCL group

The question is does he get the sack if they win nothing because that's what's always been likely with the squad he has at the moment or is he given another summer. As this is Madrid I suspect he wont be there in 12 months time due to that
 
The Urban Goose said:
He was never the Messiah in the first place. He fell for his own hype (as others have mentioned, on the back of Ronnie's brilliance) and is now paying the price.
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Or how to win three CLs and get no credit for it.
 
Bobski said:
That team selection tonight, no ball winning quality or defensive resistance. Neither of Hazard or Bale contribute much defensively, James in attacking midfield is the same, Kroos has dropped off in that side of his game. Plenty of talent on paper but absurdly balanced.
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There was no ball winning quality indeed, but the team selection is all he had at disposal. I mean, Kroos, Casemiro and James played in the starting lineup and there was no other midfielder at the bench (and James is not even a proper midfielder).

The question now is why so few midfielders when that used to be Madrid's strongest line some years ago?
 
el3mel said:
Because most teams had already a manager? How many managers changed their positions this summer? Only Juve and Chelsea.

If he had waited till summer he would have got the Juve ahead of Sarri 100% for me.
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Yeah he definitely would have without s doubt
 
el3mel said:
Because most teams had already a manager? How many managers changed their positions this summer? Only Juve and Chelsea.

If he had waited till summer he would have got the Juve ahead of Sarri 100% for me.
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I don't think so, Juve want Pep, Sarri is better to build the foundation for him then Zidane. Juve will go all out in 2021 to get him, hence why Zidane wasn't chosen. Juve probably knew for awhile that Allegri was going to leave I think it was after the Ajax defeat in CL. Zidane was still in the market, but they didn't speak to him or anything. The same with PSG the way Tuchel lost to United in the CL should've probably been a sacking there. Those clubs don't fancy him. If Pep or Klopp were available those clubs would've reached out to them.
 
He's still safe as this was only the group stage although it was a really bad to lose like that against PSG and it's worrisome to see there's no real structure or playstyle yet. Hope we can at least get Eriksen next transfer window.
 
romufc said:
Not replacing Ronaldo was because they expected Bale to take up the mantle.

I don't get where you getting this not replacing key players from?

Benzema scored 30 goals last year - not in decline
Modric was Ballon D'or winner
Kroos is still 28
Varane is still quite young

And replacing, they bought a new LB to replace Marcelo, they bought in Vinicius to be a trickery winger, Hazard, with the young talent they have in Asensio, Lucas Vasquez.

They were after Paul Pogba in Mid, they have Isco and James too.

Bought in Jovic to help out Benzema.
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Bale was never meant to pick up the mantle or replace Ronaldo in any way, those two had 5 years of football together. If Bale was there to be Ronaldo's 'replacement' of sorts, he wouldn't have been brought in 6 years ago, he was just another massive signing for them at the time.

Hazard is the man they've brought in to replace Ronaldo if anything and well, we all know how that's going don't we eh?

I was only writing yesterday I feel like Madrid are going to be splashing massive amounts of cash in the summer again and I can see Sancho going there, but I was shot down (and rightly so to be honest) by people asking me why he would want to go there. Other than them having a very rich history, currently they're just not performing and their fans are way too toxic.

It goes without saying that Madrid need a big big reset.
 
Too much Voodoo flowing through his veins, he'll win the CL. Just needs to recalibrate his Shaman dancing moves.

PSG will finish first in the group then draw Juve/Atletico in the next round and go out.

Meanwhile Madrid will finish 2nd in the group and draw one from the Leipzig/Zenit/Lyon/Benfica group.
 
Caesar2290 said:
I think Real's domination is done, not because of Zidane, but because of Ronaldo. People tend to forget that Real couldn't get past the round of 16 for 8 years in a row. Ronaldo's insane numbers created an illusion that Real was bigger than it was.
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We still went out in the R16 in his first season. It took Mourinho to finally break our CL R16 duck

Our domination is done because it was never sustainable. Literally everything had to break our way to make it happen. And yes, of fecking course Cristiano was a big reason for our success - but it's still a team sport. He wasn't carrying us to titles single-handedly.

Guess what, his new team went out in the QF last season, to the same team that eliminated us in the R16, and in much the same way. And he even scored in both legs! Wasn't enough

GatoLoco said:
The question now is why so few midfielders when that used to be Madrid's strongest line some years ago?
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Because Flo thought Casemiro-Kroos-Modric somehow would last forever and completely ignored how much that midfield worked because it was complementary to the rest of the team, and not because it was some incredible midfield in its own right that would always dominate no matter what. Basically forgot that football is played by 11 players and not 3

Who are the players we're crying after right now? Llorente, on the bench for Atletico? Ceballos, who's only real accomplishments in football so far are two U21 euros?

We never should have kept kroos imho, and modric should not be a sure starter, and we really, really needed dynamic, ground-eating players like Ndombele and Van de Beek. Flo really should have brought his foot down there, make it clear to Zidane that Pogba just wasn't gonna happen and sign at least one of those anyways. Also, honestly? One of Gueye or Matuidi or Emre Can would have been nice if we were too late for Ndombele
 
@carvajal @giorno @any_La_Liga_Specialist

The most surprising thing is your lack of intensity, pressing and physical impact.

Is your team tired, exhausted, depressed or just old? Or did they think it would be an easy game given the unavailable psg offensive players?

For example, Bale was good in the 1st half and completely disappeared.

Hazard did not look fresh.
 
padzilla said:
Zidane is starting to look like another example that proves the old maxim "never go back" in life.
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Yeah, the come-back are generally a failure: see Ballon d'Or winners Schevchenko-Kaka back to Milan for instance.
 
Ecstatic said:
@carvajal @giorno @any_La_Liga_Specialist

The most surprising thing is your lack of intensity, pressing and physical impact.

Is your team tired, exhausted, depressed or just old? Or did they think it would be an easy game given the unavailable psg offensive players?

For example, Bale was good in the 1st half and completely disappeared.

Hazard did not look fresh.
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Good question. Read an article saying we apparently run 80 kms against you, which would be mental if true

Honestly, i think we're unfit. We actually did play with serious intensity and energy against levante, i think we might have run ourselves into the ground in that game

Summer was just a disaster in general. Half the team got injured, and those who didn't still look far from match fit

Add to that, we *are* a slow team with little physicality. That's been a problem for years now, but before those guys were in their primes and we had Cristiano and the sheer individual talent and quality was often enough to more than make up for it. It's no longer the case now
 
Ecstatic said:
@carvajal @giorno @any_La_Liga_Specialist

The most surprising thing is your lack of intensity, pressing and physical impact.

Is your team tired, exhausted, depressed or just old? Or did they think it would be an easy game given the unavailable psg offensive players?

For example, Bale was good in the 1st half and completely disappeared.

Hazard did not look fresh.
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Zidane at a press conference repeated 7 times that the only problem was a lack of intensity, to not put the foot in duels.
Apparently, we hadn't run so little in a game for years.
Dupont, the new physical trainer is being criticized recently, so it could be a reason.
Other experts/opinion makers consider that Militao and Varane backed down a lot, that there was a bad position in the field, that the lines were very separate, and in short, that the match wasn´t tactically prepared.
Others say that there is some anxiety because they fail to recover the competitive point, and others who point to players who are "shy", like Militao or Mendy, in a terrible form for a while (Carvajal) or simply engulfed by the negative dynamics of the team (Kroos)
 
Davs said:
Bale was never meant to pick up the mantle or replace Ronaldo in any way, those two had 5 years of football together. If Bale was there to be Ronaldo's 'replacement' of sorts, he wouldn't have been brought in 6 years ago, he was just another massive signing for them at the time.

Hazard is the man they've brought in to replace Ronaldo if anything and well, we all know how that's going don't we eh?

I was only writing yesterday I feel like Madrid are going to be splashing massive amounts of cash in the summer again and I can see Sancho going there, but I was shot down (and rightly so to be honest) by people asking me why he would want to go there. Other than them having a very rich history, currently they're just not performing and their fans are way too toxic.

It goes without saying that Madrid need a big big reset.
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But they didn't expect Ronaldos' void to be so big which they underestimated, like we did with SAF void.

Hazard has played 2 games, but I do think he will struggle in Madrid.

I could see them splashing again for Pogba and /or Mbappe over Sancho. Well the last comment applies for Manutd, we haven't performed for longer than Madrid and reading Caf we are just as toxic.
 
giorno said:
Good question. Read an article saying we apparently run 80 kms against you, which would be mental if true

Honestly, i think we're unfit. We actually did play with serious intensity and energy against levante, i think we might have run ourselves into the ground in that game

Summer was just a disaster in general. Half the team got injured, and those who didn't still look far from match fit

Add to that, we *are* a slow team with little physicality. That's been a problem for years now, but before those guys were in their primes and we had Cristiano and the sheer individual talent and quality was often enough to more than make up for it. It's no longer the case now
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I really don't understand why you went for Hazard when your midfield is one of the most pedestrian imaginable. I really think that Vinicius-Benzema-Bale can perform at a high level if supported by runners in CM. At the moment your midfielders don't want to/can't carry the ball, tackle or cover anything.
 
JPRouve said:
I really don't understand why you went for Hazard when your midfield is one of the most pedestrian imaginable. I really think that Vinicius-Benzema-Bale can perform at a high level if supported by runners in CM. At the moment your midfielders don't want to/can't carry the ball, tackle or cover anything.
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Bale was supposed to leave. The rest were simply not reliable. Vini couldn't score in a brothel, Rodrygo and Brahim are also kids, entirely unknowns, James was supposed to leave, Isco coming off a bad season and never much of a goal-threat anyways. Zidane had once again put his eggs in Asensio's basket, but he shattered his knee in pre-season(and was another unknown quantity anyways, also coming off a poor season in which much was expetced of him and he failed to deliver)

We did need to add some star power up top. Now i agree it shouldn't have been Hazard, but he's still a big improvement for the team

As to the midfield situation, well :wenger::wenger::wenger: i've been known to moan about that back when we were winning the double :lol:

PS the midfield isn't pedestrian, just badly assorted and a poor match for the rest of the team
 
romufc said:
But they didn't expect Ronaldos' void to be so big which they underestimated, like we did with SAF void.

Hazard has played 2 games, but I do think he will struggle in Madrid.

I could see them splashing again for Pogba and /or Mbappe over Sancho. Well the last comment applies for Manutd, we haven't performed for longer than Madrid and reading Caf we are just as toxic.
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Yeah I agree. I don't think anyone thought Madrid would struggle as much as they have with Ronaldo leaving, because it's still Madrid.

Pogba has never ruled out the move and always flirted with the media when asked about it so I could see it happening so that definitely is a possibility.

Yeah every club has a certain amount of toxic fans, but Madrid's are on another level. Remember that massive portion of fans that attended Hazards unveiling at the Bernabeu chanting for Mbappe? That was bang out of order!
 
royboy16 said:
Do the people that wanted him back then still want him now ?
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With all due respect to his CL wins, he would have been a disaster here. There would have been zero connection between him and the club and it would have turned sour quickly. I also think Zidane was dumb enough to go back to madrid at this time. He had more to lose to and less to gain and yet he went back there. Juve or PSG should have been his next destination. I very much doubt if either of those clubs would risk appointing him.
 
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