the next one might be caused by devising fiscal policies based on an alexei sale stand up routine?
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
The SNP look like they are now moving towards the prospect of installing Corbyn as temporary PM via a vote of no confidence given Johnson has made clear his readiness to ignore the law once again. It's going to place the Lib Dems in a very awkward position. Will Swinson budge?
Not when they are in power. True.
But remember the Debt ceiling fight when Obama was President?
Seems fairly obvious what should happen - vote of no confidence in Johnson, followed by a vote of confidence in Corb support by Libs and SNP. If that fails to win enough ex Tories, Lab find an alternative temporary figure.
Yes. Except that they need to agree the plan to it's conclusion. The stakes are high and can't risk failure caused by someone getting greedy.
I can see it happening. She can always paint it as ‘it’s this or no-deal and Brexit is the more damaging of the two options’. Plus it’s only temporary anyway. She’ll have to be very careful though not to scare off her moderate Tories.
Corbyn will also need plenty of the actual homeless Tories as well though. It's not gonna be an easy proposition for them to give Corbyn a go even with the pressure of all other parties acquiescing.
Like Ubik says it's maybe worth a shot at first then Corbyn standing aside if it doesn't work. Not sure what level of brinkmanship Corbyn and the rest would be willing to engage in as the seconds tick by though. Him refusing to budge and the rest refusing to accept his stewardship remains a very possible outcome.
Good point, and the major parties agreeing to him doing it might well then push him into agreeing to a compromise when the homeless Tories shoot it down. This could work.
I'd be very, very surprised if Corbyn agreed to step aside for someone else to lead the government because of the objections of some Lib Dems/independent Tories.
But why, if the sole aim is to prevent no deal and call an election? He's surely not gonna refuse to support anyone else just to make sure he's goes into an election with the clout of being PM?
The remain tories plus Swingson will never say yes to Corbyn anyway. Because they genuinely think Corbyn is Lenin reincarnated and more importantly Corbyn being caretake PM is too sensible a move for this lot to vote for it.
Because of this. If that's the case, then why would MPs object to supporting him if it's agreed that that is the only purpose? Aside from the principle and the absurdity of it, I do not believe he could contemplate it due to the damage it would do to his credibility. I don't see how his position as leader could remain tenable in such a circumstance.
I do worry that Swinson would prefer to align herself with the Tories if she could secure a softer Brexit rather than contemplate any circumstance that installed Corbyn in No. 10, even if he pledged to revoke Article 50.
We truly aren't. I would be willing to pay more tax to improve hospitals, schools and the emergency services. I also trust Labour spending it more than I do the Tories.
Because they're Tories and hate Corbyn. Like he hates them. I mean maybe they'd surprise everyone and back him, but probably not, and there needs to be a contingency rather than a plan to walk us off the cliff edge in order to save face.
I'm not sure how you can complain at Lib Dems for not backing him and simultaneously not complain at Corbyn for not backing someone else. The Lib Dems should back him, if they don't they're twats, and if that fails then Corbyn should back someone else, and if he doesn't he's as big a twat as the those that refused to back him.
Yeah I would be surprised if she does anything constructive with the labour party. Its in her interest to not work with Labour as her part of her goal is take away gullible labour ultra remain voters(hence the whole 'revoke'' Brexit shite). Plus Swinson isn't a standard liberal, she is on the right of the party and basically a tory.
It doesn't work like that. Corbyn is the leader of the opposition. He obviously has his own party's support and it appears that of the second largest opposition party. It is up to the Lib Dems and the Tories to justify why the need is so great for an alternative figure; the burden is not on Corbyn. A party with about 15 MPs asking the leader of the opposition to step aside for someone else to lead a temporary government is a frankly absurd request without precedent and one which Corbyn would be perfectly justified in refusing to countenance. As I said, it's not about "saving face", it's basically akin to asking him to resign, such is the effect it would likely have on his position.
If you think he could go that route and avoid the fallout, fair enough, but I whole-heartedly disagree. This isn't a political game.
And on that very basis, why on earth would those opposed to No Deal find it impossible to support the leader of the opposition in order to prevent that very event? The only reason they would oppose Corbyn is because they are playing political games, not him.
Well it must be true if a former tory director of communications says so in the Daily Mail.
This is literally just "the Tories did it first, why can't I?" It's perfectly possible for both he and those Tories (and the Lib Dems, if they're dumb enough to vote against him) to come out of this looking extremely bad.
And the idea he'd have to resign because of it is frankly ludicrous. He had a huge majority of Labour MPs vote no confidence in him and he survived. He just convinced his heavily pro-remain activist base to vote for the lucky dip Brexit policy at conference, purely by making it a loyalty issue. He's not going to have to resign because he helped stop no deal. And even if it were true, I'm not sure how "he allowed no deal to stay in his job" is much better than saving face to be honest.
It's not though. The precedent for this situation could not be clearer. The onus would be on the Lib Dems/Tories to explain their unwillingness to support to the leader of the opposition to stop No Deal, it would not be on Corbyn to explain why he is not caving in to their demands. Labour under Corbyn's leadership won 40% of the vote at the last election. The SNP are hardly admirers of him, but they know how this is supposed to work, hence their willingness to provide temporary support. Once they fall in behind all the pressure is on Swinson to follow suit or explain her opposition. The latter cannot be explained as anything other than playing political games, as you yourself admit.
It is not at all ludicrous to suggest that Corbyn's position as leader of Labour would be untenable if he stepped aside to allow someone else to lead a coalition of opposition parties. You do not grasp how absurd that situation would appear.
Swinson has said she wont work with Corbyn. That's what this is about.
To use this to get Corbyn out. "Political game".
To use this to get Corbyn out. "Political game".
You're still talking as if the blame has to go to one or the other, rather than both for being more interested in their own political fortunes rather than the flow of medicine into the country.
You're right to mention Sturgeon and the SNP, as she's the only one who has a sensible position at the moment, saying she'll support Corbyn or whoever else can pull together a majority to block no deal.
And it's quite easy to grasp, because the far more ridiculous situation where Corbyn went on leading a party whose MPs voted to get rid of him, and then got a good result in an election less than a year later, has already happened. Please tell me the course of events where him backing Margaret Beckett, for instance, causes him to lose the support of Unite and the membership enough to have him toppled? Dear god, they'd be more likely to try and get him canonised for the act of self-sacrifice.
Even if all the libs could somehow be pursuaded to back Corbyn (and I really can't see Berger or chuka doing that) they still have to get a few of the ex conservative MP's or some current conservatives to back corbyn and perhaps most far fetched of all getting all of labour to back him
Corbyn will get first crack but I think fall short by quite a bit predominantly due to ex conservatives And i think ultimately it will end up having to be Clarke and if labour won't back that then it will be a hard brexit
Corbyn will get first crack but I think fall short by quite a bit predominantly due to ex conservatives And i think ultimately it will end up having to be Clarke and if labour won't back that then it will be a hard brexit
I listen to him quite often on LBC. He's quite thick or certainly lacks self-awareness.
Labour promises to overhaul 'cruel' universal credit system
This would definitely be Labour policy if Yvette 'imaginary wheelchairs for medical assessments' Cooper was leading the party, by the way. Anyone who says otherwise is in a cult.
Because Corbyn leads a party with over 200 MP's that's ten times the size of the Lib Dems in parliament. He holds all the cards here. The Lib Dems have marketed themselves as a party who now want to stop Brexit - and at the very least a No Deal Brexit - above all else. If they're unwilling to back Corbyn then that undermines that supposed purpose. From a POV of playing politics there's really no reason, or need, for him to back down on this one: the unity government calls all still seem a bit silly and in the realm of fantasy politics.
If the leader of the largest party, or any other party actually, becomes a temporary PM they will be open to accusations of manoeuvring to further there own position, so it makes sense for the temporary PM to be someone who is going to stand down at the election itself.
Where’s the labour denial? Ive tried finding one. Perhaps I’ve missed it.
I can understand why Swinson doesn’t want Corbyn, having him makes it harder to peel off the Tory votes she needs to get the majority. So that’s just tactics. But ultimately if it takes corbyn, properly constrained, to kill no deal, the. I can go along with it. Although I’m not sure it’s a good look for parliament.
A more neutral figure would be good for that reason yes, to better obtain the support of the Tory MPs that will be needed. A further consideration is that whilst it's widely believed Johnson can't be trusted, the same can be said for Corbyn, who's views on Brexit have been widely questioned, whether fairly or not being beside the point.
God I hope there isn't someone in the Labour Party who is require to respond to Daily Mail articles, poor fecker would be on some insane amount of work hours.
As a matter of interest what policies are Swinson and the Lib/Dems offering that is going to help working families?
We will have to wait for their manifesto. I didn't really follow their conference so I don't know if they announced any major policies (other than Revoking A50 if they get a majority)