Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[stevoc]

I seem to have caused a shit storm by simply suggesting both sides of the discussion, EU and UK, need to compromise more. I've never said the EU should bend over backwards or cave in to the UK but I think it's naive to think Brussels couldn't take a softer stance in view of the uniqueness of the situation in Ireland. In my opinion it's been clear with the rhetoric from day one that the EU wanted to appear tough and be seen to make the UK pay for leaving so as to prevent other countries from considering the same and essentially the EU facing the risk of capitulation - I fully get that. As in any negotiation you must keep all positions of strength firmly on the table (much like the threat of a no deal Brexit) but now we are at a point where, in my opinion, everyone needs to do more (irrespective of the blame game) to resolve this issue and to help prevent serious issues within Ireland. By everyone I also mean the UK government. I'm simply offering the opinion that this is very much a two way thing and you can't absolve the EU totally just because they didn't want the UK to leave. That would be silly and wouldn't constitute a negotiation.

In view of Ireland I've never said feck them it isn't our problem. Who has?

Both sides need to compromise to get a working solution sorted of course. But 27 countries have already compromised twice now by being willing to accept two proposals (one designed by the UK) to try to accommodate the UK's exit from the EU. Both were rejected by the UK (Government or Parliament), so it's now up to the UK to find a solution to this mess.

The UK has to compromise more than the EU here, they created this situation with the referendum and their responsibilities to the Northern Ireland peace process are making it an incredibly complex situation. I don't see what more the 27 other members of the EU could do to accommodate Brexit without undermining the single market.

 

[Maticmaker]

Interesting stuff. The Conservatives clearly have something up their sleeve but I've no idea what.

Does the Benn Act stipulate what the length of extension the PM as to ask for (someone mentioned until the 31st Jan 2020) and/or how it has to be delivered?

Just thinking what 'wheeze' Boris might use?

The letter might get lost in the post, then pop up at some Brussels Brewery, on the 1st Nov...as long as Boris has proof of posting?!
Or if it is to be an actual letter written on parchment or whatever and delivered in the diplomatic bag, the bag may get lost or diverted elsewhere end up in some UK Embassy on the other side of the world?
The letter could ask for a one day, or even one hour extension, maybe?
Or maybe that famous newspaper headline "Fog over the English Channel, Continent cut-off" has a part to play?

I agree, Boris will disappoint millions if he hasn't got something planned, maybe he even expects to be the first Brexit Martyr and be imprisoned in the Tower. What a legacy, the man to take us out of the EU, the PM with the shortest ever reign and the first Prime Minister for centuries to be imprisoned in the Tower... its Boris all over!

 

[golden_blunder]

Hungary and the rest of the EU need to stand strong on this as a group, no weak links

 

[Flying high]

I'm not sure why any nation would risk a veto like this, given that Johnson could be ousted at any time.

 

[BobbyManc]

Does the Benn Act stipulate what the length of extension the PM as to ask for (someone mentioned until the 31st Jan 2020) and/or how it has to be delivered?

Just thinking what 'wheeze' Boris might use?

The letter might get lost in the post, then pop up at some Brussels Brewery, on the 1st Nov...as long as Boris has proof of posting?!
Or if it is to be an actual letter written on parchment or whatever and delivered in the diplomatic bag, the bag may get lost or diverted elsewhere end up in some UK Embassy on the other side of the world?
The letter could ask for a one day, or even one hour extension, maybe?
Or maybe that famous newspaper headline "Fog over the English Channel, Continent cut-off" has a part to play?

I agree, Boris will disappoint millions if he hasn't got something planned, maybe he even expects to be the first Brexit Martyr and be imprisoned in the Tower. What a legacy, the man to take us out of the EU, the PM with the shortest ever reign and the first Prime Minister for centuries to be imprisoned in the Tower... its Boris all over!

Yes the date is unambiguously specified and Johnson's commitment to the court may even make it possible that should he renege on that promise the court could sign the letter on his behalf and deliver it. I believe that point is going to be decided at a wider hearing on Monday.

 

[sun_tzu]

Does the Benn Act stipulate what the length of extension the PM as to ask for (someone mentioned until the 31st Jan 2020) and/or how it has to be delivered?

Just thinking what 'wheeze' Boris might use?

The letter might get lost in the post, then pop up at some Brussels Brewery, on the 1st Nov...as long as Boris has proof of posting?!
Or if it is to be an actual letter written on parchment or whatever and delivered in the diplomatic bag, the bag may get lost or diverted elsewhere end up in some UK Embassy on the other side of the world?
The letter could ask for a one day, or even one hour extension, maybe?
Or maybe that famous newspaper headline "Fog over the English Channel, Continent cut-off" has a part to play?

I agree, Boris will disappoint millions if he hasn't got something planned, maybe he even expects to be the first Brexit Martyr and be imprisoned in the Tower. What a legacy, the man to take us out of the EU, the PM with the shortest ever reign and the first Prime Minister for centuries to be imprisoned in the Tower... its Boris all over!

not sure - perhaps arranging a sneeky veto by somebody but possibly something along the lines of

the UK government has been forced to ask for a pointless extension by vermin remoaners and we have complied with the law... but we have no intention of any further renegotiation's and the only reason for the EU to grant an extension would be to try to work with the architects of the surrender act in order to undermine the democratically elected government and overthrow it in a coup to stop brexit and the will of the British people. As such any extension is an act of war and I am declaring a national emergency and closing parliament as we deal with this threat to our democracy and if an extension is offered I will send my response attached to a trident missile aimed at Brussles

or something equally crazy - afterall its boris so anything is possible

 

[Fully Fledged]

Why doesn't Boris just have the balls and say what he wants no deal, everyone knows it. Its such an embarrassing state of affairs.

People on both sides need to be honest there is NO solution to the Northern Ireland situation, none. The UK, seemingly, don't want to lose NI (probably old school Unionists in parliament) and the Republic are clearly using the situation to angle for a border poll and Unification of the island although Varadkar doesn't feel the time is right, the rest of Europe seem keener on backing Ireland than appeasing Britain. The situation really is that simple there is no solution, a hard Brexit will mean a hard border and the breaking of the GFA.

Then we turn up looking for a trade deal and the first two things on the EU's agenda are going to be Divorce Bill and Back Stop.

 

[sun_tzu]

Then we turn up looking for a trade deal and the first two things on the EU's agenda are going to be Divorce Bill and Back Stop.

Depends who is in power after a hard brexit...
If its the libs they say actually we want to rejoin
If its labour they probably settle up on at least the Divorce Bill ASAP
If its conservatives / brexit they might even say we are going to strike deals with USA and China before we talk to the EU

 

[Fully Fledged]

Depends who is in power after a hard brexit...
If its the libs they say actually we want to rejoin
If its labour they probably settle up on at least the Divorce Bill ASAP
If its conservatives / brexit they might even say we are going to strike deals with USA and China before we talk to the EU

The Democrats will demand that we honour the GFA before they will talk with us.

 

[Maticmaker]

not sure - perhaps arranging a sneeky veto by somebody but possibly something along the lines of

the UK government has been forced to ask for a pointless extension by vermin remoaners and we have complied with the law... but we have no intention of any further renegotiation's and the only reason for the EU to grant an extension would be to try to work with the architects of the surrender act in order to undermine the democratically elected government and overthrow it in a coup to stop brexit and the will of the British people. As such any extension is an act of war and I am declaring a national emergency and closing parliament as we deal with this threat to our democracy and if an extension is offered I will send my response attached to a trident missile aimed at Brussles

or something equally crazy - afterall its boris so anything is possible

I would replace this with "I will round up all the traitors and send them up to Hadrian's Wall to repel the expected Scottish invaders armed only with bound copies of Miles and Erskine" And further more, "I will banish parliament and lock all opposition (and one or two of my own party) members in the Tower and throw the key into the Thames".

Personally I think the Trident missile bit, is going too far... dont you think?

 

[Adisa]

I smell a rat.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Yeah I have a negative opinion of my ancestors past actions but I shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it in every exchange we have regarding Brexit in 2019 (which is how it feels).

You assume your ancestors are British? Or have you looked into the family tree? You might be a Dane.

 

[Stanley Road]

indeed - I have to see an EU passport to employ somebody - or if a non EU passport documentation that confirms the right to work
If we leave with no deal I assume I will have to see a UK passport - or any other passport and documentation that confirms the right to work
It shouldnt be that difficult though I have some concerns for EU residents currently working in the UK (and UK citizens in the EU) as I suspect if a lot of people at once need that documentation the civil service might be pretty shit at processing things in a timely manner

My company wont employ anybody not living in the Netherlands already.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I think there is a distinct attitude amongst some Irish posters to play the blame game and allow their anti British/Establishment/Government feelings to totally cloud their judgement moving forwards. I understand why this is the case however I don't think it's right to continually throw history in the face of British posters in order to silence them or their opinions.

My point is how is calling a large chunk of the UK self righteous cnuts for voting to leave the EU justified or productive? Then when being pulled on this guilt shaming about the occupation of Ireland and the British Empire comes out.

I didn't vote leave but I hardly think that's a fair or reasonable mindset.

Maybe the leave campaign, politicians and voters, should've considered the impact that leaving would have on the island of Ireland. Especially when considering the context and history between our nations.

A fair and reasonable mindset would not throw toys out the pram when Britain historical actions and current responsibilities are brought up!

 

[sun_tzu]

My company wont employ anybody not living in the Netherlands already.

I work for a Dutch group... The are pretty good at moving people to Holland from other countries if they are the right person.... But obviously making somebody has the right to move there is pretty key... Already impacted some Brits who we might well have hired or who would have been called for another interview if there was more certainty ref working in head office etc
I'm lucky I have an Irish passport as well so for me it's not that big an impact

 

[Stanley Road]

I work for a Dutch group... The are pretty good at moving people to Holland from other countries if they are the right person.... But obviously making somebody has the right to move there is pretty key... Already impacted some Brits who we might well have hired or who would have been called for another interview if there was more certainty ref working in head office etc
I'm lucky I have an Irish passport as well so for me it's not that big an impact

It depends on the company, current employer dont want to pay the cost and implement the 30% rule for them. The drawback to all this is that in such a fantastic economy the big companies are prepared to pay and we are struggling to find people. There is such a shortage of personnel in every sector right now i can see it having a negative effect on the economy very soon.

 

[Stanley Road]

Is this the one where he sends a letter requesting an extension and immediately sends a second one saying ignore the first letter?

I think he waits for rejection then calls ge, no-one then has the authority to ask for an extension. Game set match

 

[T00lsh3d]

It’ll be extension, GE, then all hell breaking loose

 

[Flying high]

I think he waits for rejection then calls ge, no-one then has the authority to ask for an extension. Game set match

He needs a majority to call a GE. He won't get one while the cliff edge is so close.

 

[thebelfastboy]

He could ask for an extension for the EU to reconsider what is the UK's final offer, could you imagine the uproar?

 

[NWRed]

I think he waits for rejection then calls ge, no-one then has the authority to ask for an extension. Game set match

He can't do that, he needs 2/3 majority to dissolve parliament and call an election himself (won't happen obviously), or he needs a vote of no confidence to be passed, which won't be tabled until the opposition parties have agreed a temporary leader who can command a majority, so no election.

 

[NWRed]

He could ask for an extension for the EU to reconsider what is the UK's final offer, could you imagine the uproar?

The letter he has to send is already written, it's part of the Benn Act.

 

[Wibble]

Sounds like he is going to do something to try to not comply with the Benn Bill. But what?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Ridiculous that any politician would break the law for a 52% referendum over parliamentary democracy. When actually, if he just worked with parliament they'd have a better chance of agreeing a Brexit deal.

That's if you even believe Johnson. Reality is he will do whatever he thinks will win an election. Power hungry. But with the dangerous Cummings ideology behind it all.

So much for UK sovereignty. That was just a code word for a coup.

 

[pacifictheme]

Ridiculous that any politician would break the law for a 52% referendum over parliamentary democracy. When actually, if he just worked with parliament they'd have a better chance of agreeing a Brexit deal.

That's if you even believe Johnson. Reality is he will do whatever he thinks will win an election. Power hungry. But with the dangerous Cummings ideology behind it all.

So much for UK sovereignty. That was just a code word for a coup.

He doesn't give a feck about 52%. Hes an absolute cnut.

 

[NWRed]

Sounds like he is going to do something to try to not comply with the Benn Bill. But what?

Well the Hungarian foreign minister and the Ambassador were filmed leaving Johnsons emergency cabinet meeting yesterday morning, putting 2 and 2 together they either have or are trying to convince another member state to veto the extention. (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...-latest-Boris-Johnson-Peter-Szijjarto-Twitter)

I don't know how feasible this is and I doubt an EU member state in receipt of huge EU funds would throw the others under the bus like that for a country that is leaving, no matter what is on offer.

It shows despite all the Johnson bluster they don't have a plan so rather than send the letter he'll probably resign as PM but not leader of the Tories and hope the opposition parties can't agree on a temp PM, forcing an election and as far as I know meaning no letter is sent, although if what I read yesterday is correct then part of the court case in Scotland going on at the minute is about trying to establish whether the judges themselves would have the legal authority to send the letter if Boris tries to circumvent the Benn Act.

I'm no legal expert but if the judges have the authority to perform a task the PM should be doing in the event of the PM breaking the law, I don't see any reason they couldn't also do it in the event of there being no PM to ensure the spirit of the law is adhered to. All ifs and buts though.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

He doesn't give a feck about 52%. Hes an absolute cnut.

Cummings, Johnson, or both?

 

[pacifictheme]

Cummings, Johnson, or both?

Both.

 

[Abizzz]

Bears remembering that is was the British who lobbied hard for Hungary to be admitted into the EU. Trojan horse?

 

[Sassy Colin]

Our friends the Hungarians?

 

[sun_tzu]

The other blame game

Not the whole blaming remoaners if they stop / delay brexit

But the one that will kick off if Boris does pursuade Hungary to veto and we are out on 31st

At that point the blame game will be amongst the opposition as to why they didn't depose him

SNP clearly have pushed to remove Johnson earlier

Libs tried their own confidence motion that labour didn't back before the summer recess

Labour might find themselves on a sticky whicket there I think

 

[horsechoker]

Could the EU take measures against Hungary if they veto?

We'd have to make it worth Hungary's whole, imagine that the Tories pay huge amounts to have another country destroy our economy. The mind boggles that this is even being discussed.

 

[Ubik]

Same chat about Poland previously wasn't there? No country is gonna want to ruin their relationship with the other 26 just to help us kill ourselves.

 

[Maticmaker]

The whole point of the veto system in the EU is that countries cannot be forced into accepting something they see as being against their national interest. If Hungary believes an extension is damaging to its economy and/or other national interests then it can use the veto.
One thing is for certain if Hungary does use its veto, then that will likely be the end of such a system in the EU and the much vaunted majority voting will be ushered in.

 

[JPRouve]

The whole point of the veto system in the EU is that countries cannot be forced into accepting something they see as being against their national interest. If Hungary believes an extension is damaging to its economy and/or other national interests then it can use the veto.
One thing is for certain if Hungary does use its veto, then that will likely be the end of such a system in the EU and the much vaunted majority voting will be ushered in.

The veto is already on its last leg, I can't remember if it has already been voted though.

 

[sun_tzu]

The veto is already on its last leg, I can't remember if it has already been voted though.

Don't think so... I believe one issue is that you couldn't bring in such a change with majority voting... Basically people can veto scrapping the veto

 

[JPRouve]

Don't think so... I believe one issue is that you couldn't bring in such a change with majority voting... Basically people can veto scrapping the veto

My point is that the veto isn't popular, it's actually one of the point that saw the future president of the commission elected. She intends to put an end to it and it is known that member states are mainly in favor of it.

Edit: This is only about foreign policy.

 

[sun_tzu]

My point is that the veto isn't popular, it's actually one of the point that saw the future president of the commission elected. She intends to put an end to it and it is known that member states are mainly in favor of it.

Edit: This is only about foreign policy.

Mainly... Yup... But it needs to be unanimous which currently looks unlikely unless there is a lot of funding going to some states

 

[JPRouve]

Mainly... Yup... But it needs to be unanimous which currently looks unlikely unless there is a lot of funding going to some states

Which is why I said that it was on its last leg, not so long ago it was a no go.

 

[Kentonio]

The whole point of the veto system in the EU is that countries cannot be forced into accepting something they see as being against their national interest. If Hungary believes an extension is damaging to its economy and/or other national interests then it can use the veto.
One thing is for certain if Hungary does use its veto, then that will likely be the end of such a system in the EU and the much vaunted majority voting will be ushered in.

Hungary are already pushing their luck with the EU with their anti-immigrant/anti-democracy/anti free-speech bullshit in recent years. Forcing a no-deal against the wishes of EU countries that would be much more directly effected by it such as France/Germany/Spain etc would invite serious consequences.

Can’t see why they’d go out on that kind of a limb just to help a minority Tory government.