Is Pochettino's time at Spurs coming to an end?

[Revaulx]

The Spurs fans on here claiming that Poch has lost the players seems like a really odd suggestion.

After everything he has achieved at the club - single-handedly turning them from also-rans to genuine top-four contenders and leading them to a CL final in the process - why on earth would the players suddenly stop playing for him? It makes no sense whatsoever.

I don’t think they’re saying it’s as simple as that. More that quite a few of the players, and maybe Poch himself, have got fed up with being at Spurs.

 

[Random Task]

I don’t think they’re saying it’s as simple as that. More that quite a few of the players, and maybe Poch himself, have got fed up with being at Spurs.

Yeah, see, that I could get on board with. The Spurs players have been performing far beyond their weekly salaries for a number years now. It would come as no surprise to find many of them growing disillusioned with life at the club.

But that's on Levy, not Poch. Maybe the Spurs fans are directing their anger at the wrong source. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Sure, but none of that really explains why the Spurs players all of a sudden decided their manager is no longer worth the effort. He was considered the second coming by his players and the fanbase in equal measure this time last year. Something pretty drastic must have happened behind the scenes to change that perception.



When did he imply that? Anything I've read from Poch has suggested quite the opposite.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...go-home-if-tottenham-win-the-champions-league

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...final-liverpool-future-contract-a8940201.html

How is this committed? A bloke that outright admitted that if he had genuine success - in the form of a trophy - at the club he would have considered it job done. How do you commit long term to a man with that attitude? What, so if we do win something that's it, we have to reboot? It's ridiculous.

And in terms of what happened that was 'drastic' - look at his increasingly erratic tactics and selection for a long period now. The faith that was there would almost certainly have been shaken by the comments and the fact it's increasingly clear he doesn't have any idea about how to stop the rot at the club. I think he's just reached the end of his tenure here, he probably needs a new project and we probably need fresh ideas. The squad itself I don't think has downed tools or anything consciously, but can smell blood in the water.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Yeah, see, that I could get on board with. The Spurs players have been performing far beyond their weekly salaries for a number years now. It would come as no surprise to find many of them growing disillusioned with life at the club.

But that's on Levy, not Poch. Maybe the Spurs fans are directing their anger at the wrong source. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

There should be anger directed at Levy (and there has been) but completely ignoring the mistakes Poch has made, and the total bullshit he's come out with at times, isn't fair. He's not absolved of blame when we're bottom half and we're completely outran by a far more organised Brighton side, or when we concede 7 at home. Poch gets handed basically all the credit for the success at the club, but he takes no flack when we're totally incompetent? Nah, that's not fair, he's made mistakes as a manager in good times and bad, and right now he's a fecking mess.

 

[Revaulx]

Yeah, see, that I could get on board with. The Spurs players have been performing far beyond their weekly salaries for a number years now. It would come as no surprise to find many of them growing disillusioned with life at the club.

But that's on Levy, not Poch. Maybe the Spurs fans are directing their anger at the wrong source. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

Oh I think you’re spot on. What the Spurs fans seem to be saying is that, while that is all true, Poch himself isn’t exactly going out of his way to ameliorate the situation, say by dropping the can’t-be-arsed-brigade and playing the kids.

 

[ILC]

I hope not. Otherwise Woodward might be dumb enough to hire him.

 

[cjj]

Poch continued his trajectory. It’s not like he had to. He had a 20 goal a season Spanish striker on his books and probably an option to buy another forward. He stuck with Kane.

He didn't - I'm going to assume you're not a Spurs fan.

He had a 2 goals per season Spanish striker on the books, and a Togolese guy who basically tried to revolt after he got the hump at the training intensity. Poch made Ade and Kaboul captains when he joined, then banished them when they played up.

His choice to play Kane and Mason around that time was limited to the fact that they were his few options in the half of the squad that didn't cause a huge fuss.

If he was all about developing players, we'd be seeing more of them. Fact is, in 5 years you can count on one hand how many young players he's brought through, which is (to an outsider) significantly less than how many LVG did in his short time at United.

 

[cjj]

The Spurs players have been performing far beyond their weekly salaries for a number years now. It would come as no surprise to find many of them growing disillusioned with life at the club

That's just conjecture. The committed players have had multiple contract extensions, some twice in a season, as reward. Kane is, including bonuses, one of the highest paid around. Poch is the 2nd highest paid manager in the league (more than Klopp). Alderweireld hasn't found anyone willing to pay him more than we do. NDombele is supposedly near £200k, which is far more than I'm willing to bet many others would pay.

 

[Random Task]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...go-home-if-tottenham-win-the-champions-league

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...final-liverpool-future-contract-a8940201.html

How is this committed? A bloke that outright admitted that if he had genuine success - in the form of a trophy - at the club he would have considered it job done. How do you commit long term to a man with that attitude? What, so if we do win something that's it, we have to reboot? It's ridiculous.

And in terms of what happened that was 'drastic' - look at his increasingly erratic tactics and selection for a long period now. The faith that was there would almost certainly have been shaken by the comments and the fact it's increasingly clear he doesn't have any idea about how to stop the rot at the club. I think he's just reached the end of his tenure here, he probably needs a new project and we probably need fresh ideas. The squad itself I don't think has downed tools or anything consciously, but can smell blood in the water.

I wasn't aware of those articles in truth, but I doubt he was serious with his "I'll go home if we win the CL" comment though.

Stop the rot? Come on, I think you're being a bit melodramatic there. Eight games into the season is hardly a fair basis to judge where you will end up. Poch has more than earned the right to turn things around. If you sacked him right now, who would replace him to equal effect?

 

[Random Task]

That's just conjecture. The committed players have had multiple contract extensions, some twice in a season, as reward. Kane is, including bonuses, one of the highest paid around. Poch is the 2nd highest paid manager in the league (more than Klopp). Alderweireld hasn't found anyone willing to pay him more than we do. NDombele is supposedly near £200k, which is far more than I'm willing to bet many others would pay.

It's hardly conjecture. The likes of Eriksen, Toby and Verts all choosing to part ways with the club due to contractual issues certainly implies an element of truth to the rumour Spurs players are sorely underpaid. Walker left, Rose wanted out (among others I neglect to mention).

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I wasn't aware of those articles in truth, but I doubt he was serious with his "I'll go home if we win the CL" comment though.

Stop the rot? Come on, I think you're being a bit melodramatic there. Eight games into the season is hardly a fair basis to judge where you will end up. Poch has more than earned the right to turn things around. If you sacked him right now, who would replace him to equal effect?

No he was. He clarified he was serious multiple times. It was a genuine admittance that he would seriously consider leaving the club if he won the CL.

Nope, and to be honest it's getting a little old rival fans telling us we're overreacting. It's not just eight games, we're mid/bottom of the half of the table over a long period of time form wise, haven't won away in a fecking age. A cup run hid those issues but the end of last season and the start of this season have been dreadful, and that's over a hell of a lot of games, with no sort of improvement taking place. We'll lose to Liverpool at Anfield next week and will be bottom half, 8 points adrift of top 4 already.

Poch is done. I've seen when a manager has lost the plot at a club so many times. It's the same stale atmosphere that I remember at the end of AVB, where we just limped along and got battered by any team with genuine organisation and fire. It's arguably even worse at the moment because teams without either of those (like watford) can come along and be more dangerous than us at our own ground. The squad is on their holidays and he has no idea how to stop that.

 

[cjj]

It's hardly conjecture. The likes of Eriksen, Toby and Verts all choosing to part ways with the club due to contractual issues certainly implies an element of truth to the rumour Spurs players are sorely underpaid. Walker left, Rose wanted out (among others I neglect to mention).

They are "parting ways...due to contractual issues" because they won't sign them.

Any suggestions as to how you pay players more without them signing contracts?

They ones you mentioned aren't leaving due to money - Eriksen is 28 next year and wants to play for Real. Rose hasn't had a contract because he talks to the Sun every 5 minutes and criticises the club, despite being far from a good performer, and Alderweireld is obviously wanting a final contract payday at 30.

None of those scenarios fit near the agenda you mention. So yes, it's the very epitome of conjecture.

If the rest were "underpaid", they wouldn't be signing 6 year contracts.

 

[1966]

Now Poch had little to do with Kane's development too. Talk about selling a guy short.

Poch didn't play Kane in the league until he already had one foot out the door and needed to take blind long shots to save himself. Meanwhile, many of the players believed Kane should've been starting long before he did. Even the fans were calling for Kane before he got his chance.

This idea that Poch and Kane had some kind of fantastic, synergistic relationship from the off just doesn't ring true. It became that way after Kane came into the side, banged in the goals, and saved Poch's job.

 

[1966]

He didn't - I'm going to assume you're not a Spurs fan.

He had a 2 goals per season Spanish striker on the books, and a Togolese guy who basically tried to revolt after he got the hump at the training intensity. Poch made Ade and Kaboul captains when he joined, then banished them when they played up.

His choice to play Kane and Mason around that time was limited to the fact that they were his few options in the half of the squad that didn't cause a huge fuss.

If he was all about developing players, we'd be seeing more of them. Fact is, in 5 years you can count on one hand how many young players he's brought through, which is (to an outsider) significantly less than how many LVG did in his short time at United.

Well said. Completely agree.

Kane in the league was pretty much a last throw of the dice to save his job.

 

[RussellWilson]

Poch didn't play Kane in the league until he already had one foot out the door and needed to take blind long shots to save himself. Meanwhile, many of the players believed Kane should've been starting long before he did. Even the fans were calling for Kane before he got his chance.

This idea that Poch and Kane had some kind of fantastic, synergistic relationship from the off just doesn't ring true. It became that way after Kane came into the side, banged in the goals, and saved Poch's job.

What are you talking about? Kane made 34 league appearances in Poch's first season and was never in danger of losing his job in the first year.

 

[Leftback99]

What are you talking about? Kane made 34 league appearances in Poch's first season and was never in danger of losing his job in the first year.

He played less than 70 minutes (total) in Poch's first 9 games which they got 11 points from.

 

[roonster09]

Poch didn't play Kane in the league until he already had one foot out the door and needed to take blind long shots to save himself. Meanwhile, many of the players believed Kane should've been starting long before he did. Even the fans were calling for Kane before he got his chance.

This idea that Poch and Kane had some kind of fantastic, synergistic relationship from the off just doesn't ring true. It became that way after Kane came into the side, banged in the goals, and saved Poch's job.

That's how it should be done, Kane wasn't some brilliant prospect who scored shit loads of goals when he was out on loan. He scored 2 goals in Championship and 3 goals in PL before Poch took over, why would he trust Kane from the start?

He had Soldado who was goal machine in La Liga but had poor first season in PL, Adebayor who scored 11 in 21 games in the season before that and was widely regarded as good goal scorer.

They were in Europa league, Kane played every game in Europa league and league cup, after 4 Europa league games he was regular starter in league games and a sub player in Europa league. That's how you introduce young players.

Amazing how history is rewritten here.

 

[roonster09]

He played less than 70 minutes (total) in Poch's first 9 games which they got 11 points from.

Which is not surprising considering Kane wasn't scoring lot of goals in Championship and at other clubs when he was loaned out. He started as backup striker and ended up as first choice striker when he did better than Soldado and Ade.

 

[roonster09]

He didn't - I'm going to assume you're not a Spurs fan.

He had a 2 goals per season Spanish striker on the books, and a Togolese guy who basically tried to revolt after he got the hump at the training intensity. Poch made Ade and Kaboul captains when he joined, then banished them when they played up.

His choice to play Kane and Mason around that time was limited to the fact that they were his few options in the half of the squad that didn't cause a huge fuss.

If he was all about developing players, we'd be seeing more of them. Fact is, in 5 years you can count on one hand how many young players he's brought through, which is (to an outsider) significantly less than how many LVG did in his short time at United.

Developing players doesn't mean just promoting young players from academy.

Walker, Rose, Toby, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Kane, Alli, Dembele, Sissoko, Son all improved after he became Spurs manager. There should be few more without any doubt,

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Developing players doesn't mean just promoting young players from academy.

Walker, Rose, Toby, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Kane, Alli, Dembele, Sissoko, Son all improved after he became Spurs manager. There should be few more without any doubt,

He bought Son, Alli and Sissoko.

 

[roonster09]

He bought Son, Alli and Sissoko.

Yes and that's what I said in my post. "Developing players doesn't mean just promoting young players from academy."

 

[cjj]

That's how it should be done, Kane wasn't some brilliant prospect who scored shit loads of goals when he was out on loan. He scored 2 goals in Championship and 3 goals in PL before Poch took over, why would he trust Kane from the start?

...

Amazing how history is rewritten here.

Quite. He scored 9 championship goals.

His 3 pl goals were in the last 5 or 6 games of 13/14, too.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Yes and that's what I said in my post. "Developing players doesn't mean just promoting young players from academy."

Apologies the "all improved after he became Spurs manager" implied they were already there when he was appointed.

 

[roonster09]

Quite. He scored 9 championship goals.

His 3 pl goals were in the last 5 or 6 games of 13/14, too.

I meant in the season before Poch took over, as in, in individual season not career tally.

Yesm his 3 PL goals came in last 5-6 games, doesn't mean any manager would have trusted him to lead the line. He was given chances in the cup games, he took them and was given league games. Everything happened by November.

There is no way anyone would have started Kane as first choice striker in 2014-15 season.

 

[cjj]

Developing players doesn't mean just promoting young players from academy.

Walker, Rose, Toby, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Kane, Alli, Dembele, Sissoko, Son all improved after he became Spurs manager. There should be few more without any doubt,

That's a stretch considering Sissoko was better before he signed. You're confusing "development" with natural progression.

 

[roonster09]

Apologies the "all improved after he became Spurs manager" implied they were already there when he was appointed.

He developed/improved players who were there at the club, signed players who played at better level than before.

He is having shit time but the way some are rewriting history is hilarious. Not giving credit for the work he did, just because Spurs are having poor time.

 

[roonster09]

That's a stretch considering Sissoko was better before he signed. You're confusing "development" with natural progression.

Before signed Sissoko was better? He was poor for Newcastle bar few televised games.

You are just downplaying manager's contribution just because he is having poor time and might be sacked/resign.

So you think Kane's development was natural progression? Funny how everyone progressed at the same time and stagnated before Poch took over.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I believe there are points in time when you need a change and a new challenge. He has been with Spurs for more than 5 years so maybe it would be a good moment for something new.
He is still pretty young so as the days of managers spending decades with the same club are more or less over he will realistically manage at least 3 or 4 other clubs until retirement.
I would assume that he will stay until the end of the season and keep an eye on what offers might be on the table next summer. Unfortunately I do not see him coming to us as he might be looking to discover a new league and depending on how things turn out he might be able to choose between Real, Paris, various Italian clubs or even Bayern Munich.

 

[Leftback99]

Which is not surprising considering Kane wasn't scoring lot of goals in Championship and at other clubs when he was loaned out. He started as backup striker and ended up as first choice striker when he did better than Soldado and Ade.

He was starting games and scoring goals for Sherwood at the end of 13/14. He wasn't starting for Poch at the start of 14/15.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

He developed/improved players who were there at the club, signed players who played at better level than before.

He is having shit time but the way some are rewriting history is hilarious. Not giving credit for the work he did, just because Spurs are having poor time.

No doubt he did, he has been a huge part of our main players progression, for some reason though for the past year the progression has stopped. I love Poch but he like any other manager has his issues, not calling for his head or anything but I expect him to "stand down" in the Summer. The only person that made Kane great was Kane himself, Poch may have guided him but it was his own self believe and hard work that has made him the player he is.

 

[roonster09]

He was starting games and scoring goals for Sherwood at the end of 13/14. He wasn't starting for Poch at the start of 14/15.

He scored 3 goals and played him when season was over. No manager would have played him as main striker from the start, player who didn't even score in championship.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

He scored 3 goals and played him when season was over. No manager would have played him as main striker from the start, player who didn't even score in championship.

Kane was always massively thought of within Spurs and to be fair to Sherwood, who I couldn't stand, he was always one to support Kane. There was always the feeling Kane was a baller, but it would take him a little more time than others.

 

[roonster09]

No doubt he did, he has been a huge part of our main players progression, for some reason though for the past year the progression has stopped. I love Poch but he like any other manager has his issues, not calling for his head or anything but I expect him to "stand down" in the Summer. The only person that made Kane great was Kane himself, Poch may have guided him but it was his own self believe and hard work that has made him the player he is.

Talk about downplaying the manager's role. Wonder where was this self belief, hard work when he was blanking and warming bench in lower leagues.

Years of under investment is finally catching up. You need to refresh the squad, the video posted on other day explained it nicely.

 

[roonster09]

Kane was always massively thought of within Spurs and to be fair to Sherwood, who I couldn't stand, he was always one to support Kane. There was always the feeling Kane was a baller, but it would take him a little more time than others.

And somehow kept him whole season and started to play him in April when the season was over for Spurs.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Talk about downplaying the manager's role.

Years of under investment is finally catching up. You need to refresh the squad, the video posted on other day explained it nicely.

I'm not downplaying Poch's role at all, its a player himself that puts in the hard work, a coach can only guide any player they cant wave a magic wand, its the player who has to graft. Years of under investment, due to a reason that Poch signed up to himself, we had a stadium to pay for? If Poch wants to resign he can, from his own words he doesn't seem ready too.

And somehow kept him whole season and started to play him in April when the season was over for Spurs.

I have no idea what that has to do with anything, Soldado and Ade were shite, Sherwood decided he could be ready and play him, doesn't change the fact he was very highly though of with in the club.

 

[roonster09]

I'm not downplaying Poch's role at all, its a player himself that puts in the hard work, a coach can only guide any player they cant wave a magic wand, its the player who has to graft. Years of under investment, due to a reason that Poch signed up to himself, we had a stadium to pay for? If Poch wants to resign he can, from his own words he doesn't seem ready too.

Not sure how Poch signing up has anything to do with the point, you said progression stopped and I said why it stopped.

Of course it's the player who puts hard work and improve, the coach who guides them is equally important. Do you think Kane would have been the same player if it was someone like Jose? He would have been sent to lower leagues. Some managers are good at setting up teams to snatch wins, some managers are good at improving players.

I have no idea what that has to do with anything, Soldado and Ade were shite, Sherwood decided he could be ready and play him, doesn't change the fact he was very highly though of with in the club.

He might have been Kane's biggest fan but he barely gave him chances before the season was over. When there was nothing to play, he played Kane. At least he saved Spurs in a way, when they were ready to sell Kane, he stopped them at least going by his interview.

 

[VJ1762]

I would take Pochettino over Ole any day of the week. Hopefully, Ed is keeping track of the situation.

We were really lucky to have Fergie for 26 years man. Seems like every manager nowadays has a shelf life at a particular club. Or become out of date after a particular period of time.

I think Levy could have waited a few more years for building the cheese room and the stadium. It really is the most Tottenham thing to have all the good work ultimately amount to nothing of note. They peaked in 2017 and have been declining ever since.

On the subject of Poch leaving spurs, do you guys think we can get Sonaldo? Superb player.

 

[Bestietom]

Yeah, see, that I could get on board with. The Spurs players have been performing far beyond their weekly salaries for a number years now. It would come as no surprise to find many of them growing disillusioned with life at the club.

But that's on Levy, not Poch. Maybe the Spurs fans are directing their anger at the wrong source. Just my opinion for what it's worth.

Same as us. We should be directing our anger at Woodward. But fans will always blame the manager.

 

[Bepi]

He is the coach you need but his ceiling is also evident now with seeming incapable of moving on mentally after a tiring season and huge disappointment at the end of it, something a more mature manager would do naturally.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Not sure how Poch signing up has anything to do with the point, you said progression stopped and I said why it stopped.

Of course it's the player who puts hard work and improve, the coach who guides them is equally important. Do you think Kane would have been the same player if it was someone like Jose? He would have been sent to lower leagues. Some managers are good at setting up teams to snatch wins, some managers are good at improving players.

He might have been Kane's biggest fan but he barely gave him chances before the season was over. When there was nothing to play, he played Kane. At least he saved Spurs in a way, when they were ready to sell Kane, he stopped them at least going by his interview.

Progression has stopped I think for many reasons, the Eriksen / Toby situation and for what ever reason things seem to have went bad behind the scenes, Poch seems to have taken the CL final lose hard and is setting the team up all wrong to the point where team members aren't happy with it, publicly stating so. Injuries to Ndombele and GLC haven't helped, it could be argued that Poch/Levy didn't go out and buy cover at full back, but we were on the verge of signing Fernandes so money was clearly there to spend. Again I like Poch a lot but feel it is time for a change, although I cant see Poch resigning unless it get drastically worse and I doubt Levy will sack him as they do have a good working relationship.

I think Sherwood stuck with Ade and Soldado because like you said back then both were the big names, Soldado cost a lot of money. A new coach such as Sherwwod had a lot more to lose by taking the risk to play Kane rather than stick with the 2 more experienced players.