You don’t know what he wants. We can discuss his performances as much as you want in the right thread for it. I am speaking solely to the questioning of his commitment, which is what this thread is about. Your adamance that he wants to leave and will go suggests more that that you have issues dealing with things than me. I do not know what he wants. I’ve watched football for many years and I’ve seen players who, beyond any doubt, want to leave a club. That’s not what I have seen for Pogba, and again, I think a large part of that is fans filling in their own blanks. I’m not even saying he does not wish to leave. It is what it is. But I’d be no less surprised if he signed a new deal than left us. I don’t see him being as uncommitted as everyone else. I’m not in denial, I wouldn’t be surprised if he left, nor would I be that distraught if he did providing we made the right moves. But I’m not wishing him away like many others, and justifying it with ‘he never really wants to be here anyway’.
Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
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You don’t know what he wants. We can discuss his performances as much as you want in the right thread for it. I am speaking solely to the questioning of his commitment, which is what this thread is about. Your adamance that he wants to leave and will go suggests more that that you have issues dealing with things than me. I do not know what he wants. I’ve watched football for many years and I’ve seen players who, beyond any doubt, want to leave a club. That’s not what I have seen for Pogba, and again, I think a large part of that is fans filling in their own blanks. I’m not even saying he does not wish to leave. It is what it is. But I’d be no less surprised if he signed a new deal than left us. I don’t see him being as uncommitted as everyone else. I’m not in denial, I wouldn’t be surprised if he left, nor would I be that distraught if he did providing we made the right moves. But I’m not wishing him away like many others, and justifying it with ‘he never really wants to be here anyway’.
Allright, fair enough man! I don't know for sure, you're right and we're all just filling in the blanks. If you look past they way the negative opinions about him gets expressed, I'd say there exist some shared perspective of him not wanting to be here yes. I don't think that was developed by some long-lasting agenda, or confirmation bias but just all the little things along the way. When you continuously keep getting offered stacks of paper, you'd fill them in eventually. Without filling in the blanks, I'd just ask why am I being offered this all the time?
Yes it really is stats show shit all. Just take a look at a player like Firminho he makes Liverpool tick but his attacking outlet stats aren't close to both Salah and Mane. But again stats could also show you the steadily downwards spiralling trend of the club since Pogba became our main man. But let's just agree to disagree comical or not.You get presented with factual stats and your reply is “you just keep telling yourself that”, “he has the look of” and “mind elsewhere”
comical
Just think he can’t win with the fans, and it’s because we’re scared to trust emotionally. If he signed a new 5 year deal tomorrow, many will still say it’s simply because of money, or ‘Raoila this or that’. I think ultimately, he’s just too high profile a footballer for some fans to really believe he’s happy to play for Manchester United just because he is happy to play for Manchester United. Only English players of his profile may convince people I think. But again, that’s an ‘us’ problem, not really a ‘him’ one.
You’re typing a bunch of nonsense. Your first implication was that he is not a grafter, then you were presented with factual evidence that he’s not only our most creative player, he’s also our best ball winner, and around Europe too, now it’s some moronic “our decline is directly linked to Pogba being main man” goofy post.
This fanbase sometimes...
Stats will then also prove how he really doesn't like running and could even be interpreted as him being lazy. But then again just pick what suits.
I couldn't agree more.
I get what your saying but I don't think there is an overlap. No reason to not believe anyone saying that they are happy to play here if they say so, I'm just not sure that logic applies to the case of Pogba. No doubt he had ambitions initially and still do, and from that I think he expected different things from the club here as well, but somewhere through his own struggles at the club I think his attitude towards the club changed and he reverted back to the escape of being elsewhere instead like he probably visioned himself. I think I'm close in my guesswork here, because its an explanation that actually cover both ends. You have a great professional player that want to act respectful towards the club, but simultaneously is conflicted about his own development and the club, resulting in him not being fully committed, resulting in him not developing properly. Which again creates divide in opinion of him, because while he is insanely talented his consistency is more than debatable. Then you have the fans trying to fill in the blanks to all the small notes and hints his camp seem to give out from time to time. I don't think this is an overly negative view, I just think that something like this is what happened.
oh, you want running stats? Here:
https://reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/bi896r/manchester_united_players_distance_covered_per_90/
Oh would you look at that?!! even those are against the goofy nonsense you’re spouting.
This is 100% correct. Fans have agenda against certain players, considering Pogba was our best player last season the fact he was jeered and chanted at at the final game at OT is mind boggling.
I think he could end up staying put for two reasons.
1. The club seems like it could be sold soon. The Glazers must see that huge investment is needed to take us back to the top and we look set on two consecutive seasons out of the CL. The value will drop now and already has done. Share price has plummeted.
2. The asking price will put buyers off. Pogba isn't a consistent player. Far from it. Brilliant on his day but can be absolutely shocking too. I just don't think he's good value for money for a potential buyer.
I think we will keep him and he may even renew his deal. Under the Saudis (if they do eventually take over) it would be fun to see us have much better players around Pogba.
1. The club seems like it could be sold soon. The Glazers must see that huge investment is needed to take us back to the top and we look set on two consecutive seasons out of the CL. The value will drop now and already has done. Share price has plummeted.
2. The asking price will put buyers off. Pogba isn't a consistent player. Far from it. Brilliant on his day but can be absolutely shocking too. I just don't think he's good value for money for a potential buyer.
I think we will keep him and he may even renew his deal. Under the Saudis (if they do eventually take over) it would be fun to see us have much better players around Pogba.
I really find you amusing that's why I bother with this nonsense. Here one from the same running stat thingy.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/bhrkyf/paul_pogba_running_stats/
Just to make it clear I like Pogba as a footballer I really wanted him to become our midfield maestro but us being shambolic and him being a bit of a primadonna sadly are a poor fit. Put this fella in any functioning team and watch him thrive but we really aren't that.
Hopefully. Doesn't want to be here. Is a player with a market value of 120m plus with an output of a player worth 70m tops. Makes no sense to keep him. And hes a twat
Crucial in our only trophies won since Fergie left, and crucial in our highest PL finish since then also...
So, yeah.
We don't need to sell Pogba to finance 2-3 players. We can just buy them.
Our scouting network has had more than a decade to find a suitable midfielder and we've not bought a single one besides Pogba that has improved the team so it's not as simple as buying a couple of players and we're magically better.
Pogba said:
100% commited players do not say things like this unless fishing for a new contract.
How/why?
Prejudice.
Its significant that our best player doesn't want to be here but who is actually surprised? He can play for Real, Barcelona, Bayern, Juventus, PSG and aim for every title out there with his team or as a individual player. And with us?
He can aim for top4 at best, he is not even shortlisted for the ballon d'or 2019, club is not capable of buying best players, Ole has absolutly no experience as a manager (specially at this level) and he should play with Lingard, McTominay, Pereira or Fred and if we lose, pundits, experts, media or some "fans" will blame him for that even though he is by far our best player and he was also our best player last season. He is not perfect, but losing him means losing hope.
He can aim for top4 at best, he is not even shortlisted for the ballon d'or 2019, club is not capable of buying best players, Ole has absolutly no experience as a manager (specially at this level) and he should play with Lingard, McTominay, Pereira or Fred and if we lose, pundits, experts, media or some "fans" will blame him for that even though he is by far our best player and he was also our best player last season. He is not perfect, but losing him means losing hope.
Are people genuinely claiming he's 100% committed and 'loves the club'?
Naive at best, laughable at worst.
I’ve addressed that. I told you of the ‘self-fulfilling’ element of this. Finally, people got some actual evidence to go with what they have said for years without substance.
And even then, he got his head down and barely started any fuss at all. The press wished there would be a story there, they made up lies on the eve of pre-season that he was going to go on strike and not report, but that’s just the villain they have always wanted him to be. He reported for pre-season and played well for the team from the beginning. I see no issue there. Compare that to the likes of Di Maria, Dembele - even Lukaku amongst several others.
The reality is that Pogba is not the villain people like to think he is. He’s 27 and has never had a story about his conduct in anyway. Never photographed in a club. Never accused of not training well. Never kicked up a fuss to get a move. Yet this narrative has been created of him to suggest that he’s a diva, primadonna, selfish and the rest of it. The reality is that his biggest actual crime is sometimes dwelling on the ball a little and enjoying music and fashion. He’s one of football’s good guys, and is a positive role model. Yet his reputation in this country is anything but. Add to all that, he’s also actually pretty decent at playing football too, but again, the narrative would suggest that he is not.
England just doesn’t like Paul Pogba. It’s clear as day to me. Players who are worse than him get far more adulation, and others who are worse behaved get far less personal criticism and scrutiny.
If I was him I'd want to leave too.
Unlike a lot of our other players he can make a step up to a better team.
He's an ambitious player and given the direction we are going in, with a rubbish manager and a weak squad why would you want to stay?
I think he'll be gone in the summer unless something dramatic happens and I'd have no hard feelings towards him.
Unlike a lot of our other players he can make a step up to a better team.
He's an ambitious player and given the direction we are going in, with a rubbish manager and a weak squad why would you want to stay?
I think he'll be gone in the summer unless something dramatic happens and I'd have no hard feelings towards him.
Irrational reasonings.
now explain that breakdown, what is “other”? and what’s the differential, in terms of speed, between jogging, walking, sprinting, low speed running and high speed running?
also, stating that you like Pogba as a footballer is meaningless goal post moving when your implication was that he is not a grafter despite him being the best ball winner in Europe as well as hovering around the top for distance covered per 90mins for us. All this whilst leading in assists, goals and chance creation too. That lazy Paul Pogba, yes, we would be better off with the likes of Lee Cattermole.
I wonder if Allegri’s appointment could convince him to stay.
Fair play for putting in the effort for detailing your view. But this is extremely far fetched.
Most of your post is centered around the idea that our fans have a low opinion of their own club and it's worth. Now I can only speak for myself but I reckon my take will reflect that of many people. Manchester United is one of (and probably the ) biggest clubs on the planet - the most successful (and recent too) in English domestic football, one of the wealthiest and most beloved on the planet, and has a rich and alluring history. At the same time, we are going through a decade (could extend beyond) where we are unable to challenge for major trophies. Even in amidst that transition/low phase, this current season is definitely particularly a low point. We have the least credible manager out of all the ones post SAF. And a team that has been shaken up with a view to rebuild.
So it has to also be acknowledged that there is a long way to go - a process that would involve acknowledging more mistakes, removal of the current regine and then getting it right with th changes we make in the next set up. And if that doesn't go right, then - rinse and repeat. So this is going to take a bit of time. With the right people in charge - hopefully 2/3 years. With a few more mistakes - 5/6 years.
Given that this is a time consuming affair, it is not unusual nor does it necessarily stem from a dim view of the club's statute but a realistic take on things, to believe that a footballer billed for greatness who has spent 3 years in a poor team should naturally want to move to one that is in a better place. It's a not a big deal. Juventus were crap 12 years ago, shit happens. This is just how I'd imagine most footballers would think - unless he absolutely adores United and can't see himself playing elsewhere which I doubt. If we hire a top manager and have half a team that's fit for a big club, then given that we'd be well on our way, nobody would say that XYZ should go in his self interest.
As for general mistrust in top players - again I completely disagree with the point made. United fans are unjustifiably harsher on skillful players, that is without doubt. They booed Nani if I'm not mistaken whereas Valencia could graft and knock crosses into shins repeatedly without retaliation. But it has nothing to do with trust or low self esteem. It's simply and sadly, a bias. The reason Pogba doesn't get adored by United fans is A) becuase he hasn't actually been that great for us. Fantastic player but he's not suited to a less than ideal team due to his decisoi making B) because of his image - playful, outgoing etc. I don't agree with it but football fans are old school in this respect. They want their players to be old fashioned good pros. C) his style of play - he's very languid. He likes time on the ball and is very self indulgent. Again, it gets highlighted in a poor team and I don't agree with it, but it creates an image. D) he actually does seem to want to leave.
Looks like Zidane is doing well enough to maybe be there next season although a lot can happen and the club could sack him anyway but Perez did seem desperate to get him back so I believe he'll be afforded some leeway. Failing that Juve and PSG are possible targets just to leave the worsening situation at United.
His age means he has to make a move, play in the CL next season and beyond.
I don't believe he's feigning injury, he got another whack playing against Rochdale. He'll be back playing in a month.
His age means he has to make a move, play in the CL next season and beyond.
I don't believe he's feigning injury, he got another whack playing against Rochdale. He'll be back playing in a month.
I don’t think there is an agenda against Pogba at all, even if you can forgive all the agitating for a move stuff as “part of modern football” I can never shake the feeling he could try harder.
I can’t be angry at players like Pereira and Young for just not being very good. They do their best. Pogba should do so much better. The Pogba that played for France in the last World Cup or the Pogba that turned up for ten games after Jose was sacked would take us into the top four single handedly if playing that well every game!
You say that the current low-esteem is natural and ‘realistic’, which I don’t doubt. I’m saying that part of the fall-out of that is seemingly, an inherent disbelief that Pogba wants to be here. He is then treated accordingly. This has been the case long before any comments were made in the summer.
You can speak of our standing in world football and how great a club we are, but majority of fans on here immediately dismissed the reports of Paul Pogba wanting to join us in the first place. Many a thesis was written as to why Pogba would prefer to go elsewhere that would not be written about James Maddison. Pogba’s level of a player affords him different options to James Maddison. On the ‘for’ side as to why he may join, the idea that he’s greedy and wants to use us a as stepping stone were the most common. That is Pogba already off to a negative start in the eyes of many of his own fans, due to no fault of his own, but more their own insecurities of their own club. This has remained the case since then, so when 3 years later the comments from last summer emerged, it was like ‘ah ha, I knew it’.
You can say what you wish about style of play or level of performance, but this is a thread questioning the ‘convenience’ of an apparently suspicious injury, which is being faked by Paul Pogba so that he cannot play. Where does that come from, and what has he done to deserve that? Again, at the root of this is, in my opinion, a fan issue that they struggle to see any logic themselves in Pogba actually wanting to play here, and always have. If THEY were Pogba, they would want out, and because of that, the REAL Paul Pogba has always been punished since the day he returned.
You go to the thread of any player in the Transfer forum who is so good that he may be wanted by Real, Barca or Juve over the last few years, and the prevalent theme is ‘why would they want to come here?’, followed by ‘he’ll be here for the money’. What fans really seem to want, is a squad of honest pros without the talent to be pursued by the best teams in the world. This would comfort their insecurities, then they can support him and get behind him and hope we conquer the world again as underdogs.
Just linking from the point about decline and Pogba as the main man, sometimes it simply doesn’t work out with a particular player being the main man. Ruud Van Nistelrooy was utterly exceptional for United, but they only won one title with him leading the line. If the counter immediately is “he didn’t have the players around him”, well sure, but in the end he needed to move on for the whole team to progress as different main men with different approaches came in.
This is an excellent, A* post.
Many Thanks.
I agree with what you say here and in 2015 when people were claiming that he was Real Madrid bound, I have always pointed to the fact that it wasn't actually the case, this idea comes from Madrid's press and a part of the french press who links every french player to Zidane. But Pogba's reality is that from the moment he left United to go to Juve the club that he has always been talking about was United, it's the club that he has never stopped calling home, the reason he came back is because he felt that he had unfishined business.
He’s dead to me. Should have went in the summer.
This is it. I think it is fans subconsciously projecting their own views on to Paul Pogba. In this country, there are two Paul Pogba’s in my view - the one people have created themselves, who is a selfish diva, primadonna, lazy and money grabber who doesn’t take the game seriously, and then the actual Paul Pogba, who exhibits nothing of the sort.
If it were Emil Forsberg, or Flaurian Thauvin who joined United and claimed that they always wanted to be here, nobody would have any doubts. We wouldn’t keep saying they would rather be at Real Madrid, even though it is just as likely/possible that they would. If given the choice. The only difference is that they wouldn’t have the option, which then brings the security. Even when a British player came on to the market that was good enough for both clubs, Gareth Bale still chose Real over us. The whole Pogba wanting to go to Real thing and as a result, we are justified in ‘just not liking him’ thing is because fans probably think he should be at Real. It’s steeped in fear, insecurities and a lack of self-esteem for the club.
Nothing to do with unfinished business. Before he signed, Raiola was whoring him out to the top clubs to see who would pay the most which surprise surprise was us. This is Raiolas own interview with a Spanish paper so there's no confusion about sources.
https://www.football-espana.net/59162/raiola-madrid-fantastic-pogba
https://www.eurosport.co.uk/footbal...-madrid-confirms-agent_sto5655716/story.shtml
The reason I'm posting this is in another Raiola interview he said that the club have known for a long time Pogbas intentions to leave. I'm not sure how long a long time is but it's not a question of weeks or months.
https://talksport.com/football/5703...-raiola-man-united-transfer-update-statement/
What is happening in this thread? A quid pro quo of compliments of posts where the posters accuse others have fabricating a negative narrative when in reality his agent offered him to City amongst other clubs in January, and when asked about his future he said he wants a new challenge.
Yes, we are all just imagining things. He's always cut short speculation by declaring his commitment to the club, right? That's the actual Paul Pogba we others haven't seen, right?
Just to be sure: I genuinely think he's injured. I don't think he's lazy, but he lacks motivation and he doesn't want to be here. But I've not seen the actual Paul Pogba I guess.
Err I get your anger and disappointment, but I’d love to have a 9.50p midfielder who can score 15 goals and 10 assist for us in a season.
I’m not much of a Pogba fan myself but I can’t find much to disagree with here. You have given me something to consider! Good post