Is Pogba as good as gone?

kouroux said:
Liverpool midfielders are very good on top of working hard and being coached well.
Not aiming this at you but their midfielders are ridiculously underrated on the caf.
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People on here used to laugh at Henderson et al., like they do with their own players now. Let's see if McT and Fred keep developing at the same rate they have done since the start of the season.
 
When is he expected back anyway?

Pogba instead of Andreas in front of Fred and McSauce is the missing piece. Will add a whole other dimension offensively.
 
golden_blunder said:
I don’t see it coinciding with us making up the extra points. Pogba or not
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Agree. Last season we did recover 11 points but I think we did get fortunate on that run and I think Chelsea and Leicester have greater momentum this time around.
 
golden_blunder said:
If anything Chelsea are going to get better with Pulisic now finding his feet in the PL

Leicester? Well people kept thinking “it’s only Leicester” when they went on a run to win the PL. their current form is actually better now than when they won the league! Their squad is stronger too.

This is obviously the wrong thread to discuss, but Pogba or no Pogba we are too inconsistent.
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I'm not even sure Leicester is playing their best XI, I've been impressed with Praet, think they might well be even better with Maddison nominally wide left but basically free and Praet in midfield, as Barnes and Perez are pretty clearly the weakest players in their XI. They could also just sign a proper wide player.
 
el3mel said:
If Fred and Scott continue like that then sure it's good enough, and if we want to upgrade on say Fred, it will be with another box to box player not a player like Pogba. As for Perriera I said as a number 10 is the only position left for Pogba to play in, because breaking a working midfield is insane. If he can't play there it will be better to get a proper number 10 then.

A working midfield isn't about quality alone and Liverpool proved that.
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I don't think those two as our deepest two will ever be good enough. Possibly for a top 4 challenging team but beyond that we need better. I mean neither are anywhere near as good as somebody like Carrick let alone Scholes and those are the standards we eventually have to look at.

Us having a working midfield right now is highly debatable. It's important that we don't get carried away with one or two peformances and expect and demand and aim for better. Fred is absolutely miles away from proving himself to be good enough. Mctominay is further down that path but also has time on his side.

I think Klopp has seemingly created this misconception that hard work alone can make you a top class team. Let's not forget that they have the best back 4 in the league, the best DM in the league and possibly the best front 3 in the league right now. So this myth that they've got work horses in many positions is completely untrue. Even the likes of Wijnaldum and Henderson have dribbling abilities and a passing range that the likes of Fred and Mctominay have never shown. Let alone Fabinho who is miles ahead of either and their main midfielder right now. And then you have to consider the creativity and goalthreat they have due to A) Klopp and B) the quality of the fullbacks and attackers.

Considering all of the above Livepool are not the blueprint for us. We should look at the quality we had in midfield on oir own teams do the past - Carrick , Scholes etc - that's the bar (okay maybe not Scholes) we should look at.

But I agree that tactically Pogba would replace Periera and not Fred/Mctominay.
 
For all the world of talent in pogba, if his heart is not here then its not here. Like a bad break up, we look to move on from it and make a new midfield and maybe build around another player. Its a shame really, what a player when he is on song. But you gotta do what you gotta do.
 
JarleA said:
When is he expected back anyway?

Pogba instead of Andreas in front of Fred and McSauce is the missing piece. Will add a whole other dimension offensively.
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Depending on his recovery this 2 weeks, Ole said that he expects Pogba to be in the eleven early December.

We might see him on the bench/stands this coming weeks.
 
Mainoldo said:
I don’t see why not. We’ve bent over backwards for De Gea and nobody cares about that now and he basically had no clubs after him.

I’d love Pogba to stay but I also don’t see anything wrong with us doing everything we can to keep him.

Let’s be honest we will sell him and just sign James Maddison and nobody else.
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Me too, but i dont think we should do"everything" to keep him, as that would go straight against what Ole is trying to do regarding building a healthy culture. He sent Lukaku and Sanchez packing, though he admitted they would have been useful to have in the team. https://www.goal.com/g00/en-us/news...r=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8=&i10c.dv=11

Now obviously Pogba is twice the player Lukaku is, and him and Sanchez are world apart, but even the best player can become more of a problem than a boon if they unsettle the team and disrupt the harmony. And i am not saying he is a problem, but if he is and we have to bow and scrape to keep him happy he has to go.

Ferguson was second to none in terms of building a winning culture, and an integral part of that was removing players that threatened that culture. Ole is not Ferguson, nor will he become him, but he did play under him for a decade and then worked under him training the reserves, so he must have picked up a thing or two regarding management and i think this is one of them. Fergie himself sold Pogba for peanuts, and i remember most people being shocked and some even suggested he had lost it when he let one of the most talented academy players we've had in a decade just go like that.

Now as i said, ideally i want him to say of course since hes obviously our best outfield player, but i just cant shake this feeling there is something up with him and it will cause problems sooner or later
 
The best thing United would do is to get rid of Pogba and Matic in January. And sign three midfielders, possibly two in Jan and one more in summer. His contract has only year and a half remaining and it will be best if we get rid before that. Go big and sign Kai and Maddison from the fee we collect from Pogba sale. Get a decent defensive midfielder like Kalvin Phillips or Sean Longstaff too. These signings will not only transform our midfield but also bring a cultural change too, no player should think he is bigger than the club.
 
I just don't get where the Pogba is the cultural issue at United thing comes from?

Apart from the one post made after Jose was sacked - what evidence is there of him having a bad attitude?
 
Shiva87 said:
I just don't get where the Pogba is the cultural issue at United thing comes from?

Apart from the one post made after Jose was sacked - what evidence is there of him having a bad attitude?
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Honestly, from what I hear from coaches at Carrington he is the most humble and polite person. He's always there for events with the kids. Signing everything. He's been there to promote the club to academy signings and to welcome new signings like Maguire to the club and he's stepped in for corporate events when the club has needed someone to. He also came back early last year from the World Cup.

He's been treated extremely poorly in the media, and clearly Neville has had an agenda against him. As soon as he's been out of the side suddenly Gary's passion about our poor form disappeared yet we were near relegation until a couple of weeks ago. Everything is around Pogba with Neville and that's unfair. Deranged.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Honestly, from what I hear from coaches at Carrington he is the most humble and polite person. He's always there for events with the kids. Signing everything. He's been there to promote the club to academy signings and to welcome new signings like Maguire to the club and he's stepped in for corporate events when the club has needed someone to. He also came back early last year from the World Cup.

He's been treated extremely poorly in the media, and clearly Neville has had an agenda against him. As soon as he's been out of the side suddenly Gary's passion about our poor form disappeared yet we were near relegation until a couple of weeks ago. Everything is around Pogba with Neville and that's unfair. Deranged.
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Exactly, I don't think Pogba is a bad apple in the dressing room.

He is clearly good mates with Lingard, Rashford and some of the academy boys so I don't think he is a bad influence on the players because they do get along.

What Pogba wants is a competitive United to match his ambitions. A world cup winner who wants to win domestic trophies. If we looked liked we are building something to challenge in a years time, without a doubt he would stay but the continued rebuild is not good enough for him.

Whether we want him gone or not, Pogba will walk into our team whenever he is fit and available.
 
romufc said:
Exactly, I don't think Pogba is a bad apple in the dressing room.

He is clearly good mates with Lingard, Rashford and some of the academy boys so I don't think he is a bad influence on the players because they do get along.

What Pogba wants is a competitive United to match his ambitions. A world cup winner who wants to win domestic trophies. If we looked liked we are building something to challenge in a years time, without a doubt he would stay but the continued rebuild is not good enough for him.

Whether we want him gone or not, Pogba will walk into our team whenever he is fit and available.
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In fairness to him, he joined a rebuild in 2016 and it hasn't lived up to anyone's expectations of how it was supposed to go. He turns 27 this season and we're at least 2 or 3 years away from challenging (and that's highly optimistic and based on impeccable transfer dealings in the interim). These years are supposedly a players peak so he might want to spend them in a team challenging for trophies.
 
GBBQ said:
In fairness to him, he joined a rebuild in 2016 and it hasn't lived up to anyone's expectations of how it was supposed to go. He turns 27 this season and we're at least 2 or 3 years away from challenging (and that's highly optimistic and based on impeccable transfer dealings in the interim). These years are supposedly a players peak so he might want to spend them in a team challenging for trophies.
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Exactly, I don't think it is an insult to Manutd if pogba wants to leave for trophies because his talent deserves to be challenging.

It is the same way we go to Leicester and sign players because they think it would be a step up and we will challenge however; looking at it now it is a step sideways to Manutd.

Unless Pogba sees some massive improvements in the team and how we are playing, I am afraid he is a goner.

The question now is, will Real Madrid pay the money? realistically they are the only ones in for him.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I don't think those two as our deepest two will ever be good enough. Possibly for a top 4 challenging team but beyond that we need better. I mean neither are anywhere near as good as somebody like Carrick let alone Scholes and those are the standards we eventually have to look at.

Us having a working midfield right now is highly debatable. It's important that we don't get carried away with one or two peformances and expect and demand and aim for better. Fred is absolutely miles away from proving himself to be good enough. Mctominay is further down that path but also has time on his side.

I think Klopp has seemingly created this misconception that hard work alone can make you a top class team. Let's not forget that they have the best back 4 in the league, the best DM in the league and possibly the best front 3 in the league right now. So this myth that they've got work horses in many positions is completely untrue. Even the likes of Wijnaldum and Henderson have dribbling abilities and a passing range that the likes of Fred and Mctominay have never shown. Let alone Fabinho who is miles ahead of either and their main midfielder right now. And then you have to consider the creativity and goalthreat they have due to A) Klopp and B) the quality of the fullbacks and attackers.

Considering all of the above Livepool are not the blueprint for us. We should look at the quality we had in midfield on oir own teams do the past - Carrick , Scholes etc - that's the bar (okay maybe not Scholes) we should look at.

But I agree that tactically Pogba would replace Periera and not Fred/Mctominay.
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You don't really understand Klopps tactics, the misconception about hard working, depends on how you want your team to play, whether possesion based football like Pep or space based football ala Klopp.

Klopp set traps on the field, and uses counter pressing to win the ball high up the field, to create chances. KLlopp tactics requires players who are highly analytical, just like Mourinho, where he differs from Mourinho, is he demands that his players are good atheletes, this is where the hard working part of the equation comes into play, hence as we saw on Sunday, 3 chances results in three goals, whereas Pep who also use the counter pressing, Pep prefers his team to win the ball, and then recycle the ball aka hog onto possession to create chances, [see the amount of chances Man City created on Sunday from deep], Pep gets delight from teams lumping the ball up field, as it give his team a chance to build from deep again.

Klopp is not bothered about possesion per se, it's about efficiency, win the ball back and within the fewest amount of passes score the goal, not to say his team are not able to pass it about between each other.

Klopp has grown over the last two years and has come to appreciate the defensive side of the game and his team are benefitting from the fruits of this development in Klopps repetoire.

Our current personel is more setup to play the Klopp way, rather than the Pep's way, and i can see why Jose,Ole and Deschamp' chose to play Pogba deep, as it not only hides our weakness,hogging possession, it allows us to be strong defensively, be efficient in our attacks on the basis of our attackers taking the time to develop their craft, in a nutshell we would be sucker punching teams for fun, for this to work you need your three attacker to be clinical and make use of your full backs and set traps across the field. Oh and we are missing a Firmino type player, if Martial works a bit harder he can fufil that role and all we need is a right sided midfielder in the mould of Mane.

I am going to say something controversial, Klopps tactics is actually very similar to Mourinho's tactics, but with a few tweaks mainly in the middle of the park, 'the atheletes', where Mourinho has the slight edge on Klopp is his ability to quickly analyze situations during the game, but Klopp is develping this as time goes by.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Honestly, from what I hear from coaches at Carrington he is the most humble and polite person.
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Except of course that one of his previous coaches (his manager!) called him a virus and had to strip him off his vice captaincy because he was being so disruptive. But yeah : very polite.
 
sammsky1 said:
Except of course that one of his previous coaches (his manager!) called him a virus and had to strip him off his vice captaincy because he was being so disruptive. But yeah : very polite.
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Exactly, and that's Jose Mourinho, a man who, I think we can all agree, doesn't often fall out with people easily.
 
He joined during a rebuild 3yrs ago.

Three years later the rebuild is not only still ongoing, the club is at its lowest ebb. If any player has been more misled and misused by a big club for a 3yr period, it's him.

He's been well reimbursed for it though. Time to cut ties and wish him well on his way though.
 
JarleA said:
When is he expected back anyway?

Pogba instead of Andreas in front of Fred and McSauce is the missing piece. Will add a whole other dimension offensively.
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Pogba is expected back in December. Based on where he is right now in the process, early December looks likely. He had his cast taken off yesterday. After the cast is off he has a 14 day recovery training program to undergo before he's able to be declared match fit.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
He joined during a rebuild 3yrs ago.

Three years later the rebuild is not only still ongoing, the club is at its lowest ebb. If any player has been more misled and misused by a big club for a 3yr period, it's him.

He's been well reimbursed for it though. Time to cut ties and wish him well on his way though.
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yeah, the club exists solely to help Pogba win titles and soothe his ego.

How about Pogba makes some kind of meaningful contribution to our 'rebuild'.
 
I hope we had a good team so we could win trophies with Pogba.

But at the moment and for the time hes been here, he plays on a different wave length then our players and if we can get a decent fee for him we should cut our losses then him losing on a free. Because realistically we arent winning a major trophy for 2-3 years, especially with the board continuing to back OGS (most likely into next season if we stay top 6 which is a possibility)
 
sammsky1 said:
Except of course that one of his previous coaches (his manager!) called him a virus and had to strip him off his vice captaincy because he was being so disruptive. But yeah : very polite.
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Any of his other managers said similar? Or could the issue actually be Jose there? There are precedents with Jose and falling out with players like Ronaldo and Hazard where other managers have had no issue. I can't think of any other issues with Pogba.

Evidence suggests that was Jose.
 
Should we expect to see him back after the International break? Did I hear correctly that Ollie said last week that he is close to coming back and will be working hard on his fitness during the international break.
 
ReddBalls said:
People on here used to laugh at Henderson et al., like they do with their own players now. Let's see if McT and Fred keep developing at the same rate they have done since the start of the season.
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I honestly havent seen most of Utd games this season, but has Fred really showed any signs of promise? From what Ive seen its hard to imagine 'Fred' and 'developing' in the same sentence.

Genuine question.
 
fen4e said:
I honestly havent seen most of Utd games this season, but has Fred really showed any signs of promise? From what Ive seen its hard to imagine 'Fred' and 'developing' in the same sentence.

Genuine question.
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Definitely

Will take a few months of form to cause any real optimism but hes growing more confident with this run of starts
 
He has already said he see's his job at Utd is done. I would expect him to put in some decent performances in Dec to try & get a Jan move. If we don't move him on then i suspect this niggling injury will become more bothersome & severely restrict his playing time for the remainder of the season.
 
Jeppers7 said:
The same McTominay who had two good games out of his first eight this season? The problem really is that some players have a few good games and everyone forgets the poor ones. With Pogba it's the opposite
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It is the opposite simply because Pogba is considered by some to be so called world class.
But anyway you miss my point. I was referring to McTominay attitude and character which is not something Pogba displays very often.
 
Buster15 said:
It is the opposite simply because Pogba is considered by some to be so called world class.
But anyway you miss my point. I was referring to McTominay attitude and character which is not something Pogba displays very often.
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How did McTominay displayed attitude and character very often?
 
ExecutionerWasp001 said:
He has already said he see's his job at Utd is done. I would expect him to put in some decent performances in Dec to try & get a Jan move. If we don't move him on then i suspect this niggling injury will become more bothersome & severely restrict his playing time for the remainder of the season.
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I agree about the niggling injury will become more bothersome & severely restrict his playing time for the remainder of the season.

With the likes of Sheffield United, Villa, Spurs,Man City,Everton,Watford, Newcastle and Burnley to come in our next 8 games , 7 in December, he's gonna have to play out of his skin, hope he used the time to look at aspects of his game.

In comparison to last year where we had Southampton,Arsenal,Fulham,Liverpool,Cardiff and Huddersfield in December.

Arsenal,Norwich,Liverpool,Burnley
 
Clearly December is make or break for "the Pogba situation". No-one disputes his ability (Dec,Jan & Feb last season he was the best player in the league) but, like a married couple in the doldrums, Ole and Paul need to decide to carry on or part company. This really has to happen in January otherwise he'll run the clock down. Offer him a new deal - sign it or FO.
 
He's injured. He's posted up on Instagram he will be back in about two weeks.
He literally posted the video of the cast coming off. Stop being dramatic nobjockeys.
 
sammsky1 said:
yeah, the club exists solely to help Pogba win titles and soothe his ego.

How about Pogba makes some kind of meaningful contribution to our 'rebuild'.
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Two-way street, agreed. Pogba has been shockingly average for the most part but the rest of the squad have been appalling. It's quite weird that at times, Pogba was being slated for the rest of the squad not being good enough to stop him having to carry them on his own. Basically "why can't you win us games on your own".

How's about "why am I the only one capable of winning games?"
 
If we could get our asking price of £150m for Pogba then i'd be inclined to let him go and replace him with two others. I don't think we are going to get anyone to offer near that amount though, and he is obviously a class above when he wants to be, so an on-form Pogba would be the best thing for all concerned.
 
Gone / not gone, who cares? Does anyone really believe the last few weeks would have been any better with him in the team?
 
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