Argentina NT

I believe this Argentina team is the first one since Sabella that I really enjoyed watching. I liked the defensive part of the team, we didn't let Brazil generate that much and their chances came by silly mistakes that can be corrected, but I saw the players well positiones tactically, and with hunger to win the balls. When it comes to attacking, it's the first time in so much time that I don't see the team depending exclusively on Messi. I saw him as part of the team and of course he'll be the stand out but there were more resources, and they didn't feel scared to play and combine. Lucas Ocampos gave a bath to Alex Sandro as we would say in spanish. Lautaro is also a really good piece. I think we've been getting better and better with Scaloni, we played a good Copa America even against Brazil, and then we defeated Chile.

4-0 México
6-1 Ecuador
2-2 Germany
1-0 Brasil
- Uruguay
 
IFC 1905 said:
I believe this Argentina team is the first one since Sabella that I really enjoyed watching. I liked the defensive part of the team, we didn't let Brazil generate that much and their chances came by silly mistakes that can be corrected, but I saw the players well positiones tactically, and with hunger to win the balls. When it comes to attacking, it's the first time in so much time that I don't see the team depending exclusively on Messi. I saw him as part of the team and of course he'll be the stand out but there were more resources, and they didn't feel scared to play and combine. Lucas Ocampos gave a bath to Alex Sandro as we would say in spanish. Lautaro is also a really good piece. I think we've been getting better and better with Scaloni, we played a good Copa America even against Brazil, and then we defeated Chile.

4-0 México
6-1 Ecuador
2-2 Germany
1-0 Brasil
- Uruguay
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Theres also a few extra pieces that Argentina can call on. I would have said they should do it already, but its hard to hold it against them when they just beat Brazil.

Lisandro Martinez at CB or DM and Palacios in CM are two more players who have some quality on the ball but will also fight to win it as well.

I've said for a while that Argentina have the players, its about sorting the selection and tactics out. Perhaps now there are signs of life

Certainly that team selection featured a lot more players who have had good form this season or last season. Pezzela was a good CB last season, De Paul a good versatile attacking midfielder last season, Lo Celso was great for Betis, Lautaro and O Campos having really good seasons this time around. So yeah bed Lisandro and Palacios in and I think they could win something
 
Aren't Otamendi and Rojo still first choice at the back? That would be a worry once the qualifiers start up.
 
Ekeke said:
They played Otamendi, Pezzella and Foyth against Brazil. Pezzella is picked quite often too
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Said many times I think Foyth is pretty average in full back role, guess he could develop into decent CB over time but it's all potential. Otamendi is just a headless chicken at key moments as we saw at last WC and regularly for Man. City and Rojo was in this squad but pulled out injured. Seems Argies are giving chances to guys in their mid 20s who haven't had a run before like Pezzella and Walter Kannerman who I haven't seen much of but I think it's an issue for them no new Ayala or Walter Samuel has sprung up for them in last 18 months, those two were world class (well Samuel at Roma). Think there's a bit of hype about young guy at Borussia Dortmund so he might break through in next year.
 
FootballHQ said:
Said many times I think Foyth is pretty average in full back role, guess he could develop into decent CB over time but it's all potential. Otamendi is just a headless chicken at key moments as we saw at last WC and regularly for Man. City and Rojo was in this squad but pulled out injured. Seems Argies are giving chances to guys in their mid 20s who haven't had a run before like Pezzella and Walter Kannerman who I haven't seen much of but I think it's an issue for them no new Ayala or Walter Samuel has sprung up for them in last 18 months, those two were world class (well Samuel at Roma). Think there's a bit of hype about young guy at Borussia Dortmund so he might break through in next year.
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Lisandro Martinez was a ball playing CB last season, but Ajax signed him and play him in DM this season. So he can play either role. Pezzella is a pretty decent CB. I'd be playing those 2
 
Ekeke said:
Lisandro Martinez was a ball playing CB last season, but Ajax signed him and play him in DM this season. So he can play either role. Pezzella is a pretty decent CB. I'd be playing those 2
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Pezzella is o.k although Fiorentina were dismal at the back when I watched them play last Sunday, him and that Serbian guy who keeps on getting linked to Man. United.

More disappointing is Dybala an unused sub last night so still struggling to fit him in even though he's in wonderful form for Juve.
 
Argentina performance was fantastic yesterday. Everyone was pressing and the defense looked good for once.
 
FootballHQ said:
Pezzella is o.k although Fiorentina were dismal at the back when I watched them play last Sunday, him and that Serbian guy who keeps on getting linked to Man. United.

More disappointing is Dybala an unused sub last night so still struggling to fit him in even though he's in wonderful form for Juve.
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Yeah Pezzella was better last season than so far this season
 
Decent results but friendlies are always bad indicators, specially cause you never know how interested the opponent is. Let's see the qualifiers next year, a couple of bad results and they will be asking for Scaloni's head
 
paraguayo said:
Decent results but friendlies are always bad indicators, specially cause you never know how interested the opponent is. Let's see the qualifiers next year, a couple of bad results and they will be asking for Scaloni's head
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agreed about friendlies but Brazil looked up for it considering how many fouls and yellow cards were handed out
 
When you look at the state of this thread, and how poor they were just a few years ago, you do have to admire the world that Scaloni has done.

 
Infordin said:
When you look at the state of this thread, and how poor they were just a few years ago, you do have to admire the world that Scaloni has done.

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That's very impressive, especially in Conmebol.

Even the likes of Bolivia and Venezuela would stuff the micronations that the big UEFA sides find themselves playing half the time. They've played Germany and Mexico in that run as well.
 
Still won't be surprised if they don't make it past the R16 at the WC. Do they have any promising players? When the old guard retires it might go pretty bad for them.
 
V.O. said:
That's very impressive, especially in Conmebol.

Even the likes of Bolivia and Venezuela would stuff the micronations that the big UEFA sides find themselves playing half the time. They've played Germany and Mexico in that run as well.
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Well certainly the micronations are amateur, the likes of San Marino,Malta, Andorra, etc, so they don't count.
But the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia, Albania, are the level of Venezuela... Bolivia is shit without abusing their atmosphere in La Paz.
Anyway Argentina should beat those sides, it would be a failure not to.

Still impressive record by Argentina, they looked very bad 3 years ago, and almost don't qualify for WC 2018.
 
Btw one argentinian journalist just leaked that Messi has agreed to sign with Inter Miami once his PSG contract ends, and Beckham was crucial to close the deal.
Apparently, he isn't much motivated for club football anymore, his priority now it's Qatar 2022, and might retire from the national team after the WC.
 
Wolf1992 said:
But the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia, Albania, are the level of Venezuela... Bolivia is shit without abusing their atmosphere in La Paz.
Anyway Argentina should beat those sides, it would be a failure not to.

Still impressive record by Argentina, they looked very bad 3 years ago, and almost don't qualify for WC 2018.
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Well, that's the point isn't it? It's not a failure to succumb to playing football at 3500m above sea level. Bolivia win that more often than not.

Regarding Venezuela, when did Kosovo, Macedonia or Albania qualify to an U20 World Cup, let alone make the final?
 
adexkola said:
They don't have any better CBs than an ancient Otamendi?

Their future post Qatar looks a bit mediocre unless they have a new crop of players coming up.
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Cuti Romero and Lisandro Martínez from Ajax are the best at this moment.
 
antohan said:
Well, that's the point isn't it? It's not a failure to succumb to playing football at 3500m above sea level. Bolivia win that more often than not.

Regarding Venezuela, when did Kosovo, Macedonia or Albania qualify to an U20 World Cup, let alone make the final?
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U-20 qualifiers for WC in UEFA are 10 times harder than in Conmebol.

Look at the qualification format UEFA uses for U-20 World Cup: first they play group stage where 2 first places advance, then all 2 teams who advanced play a second round where only the winner of the group qualify for the U-19, and finally only the 4 top of the U-19 Euro go to the World Cup.

Yeah, no shit Macedonia, Albania, etc will never go to a U-20 World Cup, Venezuela wouldn't go either in UEFA.

Anyways, Argentina can lose to Bolivia in La Paz, they can't at home, Bolivia is horrendous away.

And it's not impossible to win in La Paz, Chile have done it, a very poor Chile who didn't qualify to the WC btw.
 
GifLord said:
Still won't be surprised if they don't make it past the R16 at the WC. Do they have any promising players? When the old guard retires it might go pretty bad for them.
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I think that both they and Brazil will be very strong at the World Cup in Qatar, contrary to what you're saying. It's not necessarily a vintage time for SA football but I don't actually think the European sides are that good either. Exhibit A is European Champions Italy failing to qualify for two straight.

The only exception to this is France, but if you examine them closely, there's been a lot of drop off with them too.

When they won the WC in 2018. It seemed almost unfair, the number of amazing players they had. There were terrific footballers who couldn't even get a look in. Remember they didn't include Martial at a time when people actually thought he was good? When Payet was balling but had no chance of making the squad? When they said to Kinglsey Coman "you're not good enough to make the squad so we'll put you on the standby list"?

Fast forward 4 years and it's a different story. Pogba has fallen off. Griezmann has fallen off. Dembele has fallen off. Umtiti has vanished. 4 time CL winner Varane's rep has taken a huge hit. Benjamin Mendy is allegedly a complete psychopath. Etc. etc.

The only real bright spots for France are the continued growth of Kylian Mbappe and the recall of Benzema, though he is aging. And don't get me wrong, they still have a very good squad and could triumph in Qatar. But they're just not quite the team that we thought they would go on to be after 2018. And this is supposed to be the Crown jewel of the European sides.

With regard to the other European teams, the Belgians are old and Hazard has declined terribly, which is very sad. Some others have talent and could spring a surprise. The best Euro team other than France is probably England. Just remains to be seen if Southgate can shed his 'nearly man' tag and get them over the hump this time.

Anyway, long story short, I think Brazil and Argentina have a great chance, as good as any of the European teams.
 
I think it's the best Argentina "team" I've seen in a long time.

Other squads may have had more talent but not the togetherness and tactical discipline of this group.

They all play for each other, the camaraderie and public support is off the charts.

Of course the run includes average and bad teams (which national team doesn't play bad teams?) but it also includes a Copa America win vs Brazil in Brazil.

The World Cup will be massive test but I wouldn't put this Argentinian side far off the Favorites.
 
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Andrade said:
I think that both they and Brazil will be very strong at the World Cup in Qatar, contrary to what you're saying. It's not necessarily a vintage time for SA football but I don't actually think the European sides are that good either. Exhibit A is European Champions Italy failing to qualify for two straight.

The only exception to this is France, but if you examine them closely, there's been a lot of drop off with them too.

When they won the WC in 2018. It seemed almost unfair, the number of amazing players they had. There were terrific footballers who couldn't even get a look in. Remember they didn't include Martial at a time when people actually thought he was good? When Payet was balling but had no chance of making the squad? When they said to Kinglsey Coman "you're not good enough to make the squad so we'll put you on the standby list"?

Fast forward 4 years and it's a different story. Pogba has fallen off. Griezmann has fallen off. Dembele has fallen off. Umtiti has vanished. 4 time CL winner Varane's rep has taken a huge hit. Benjamin Mendy is allegedly a complete psychopath. Etc. etc.

The only real bright spots for France are the continued growth of Kylian Mbappe and the recall of Benzema, though he is aging. And don't get me wrong, they still have a very good squad and could triumph in Qatar. But they're just not quite the team that we thought they would go on to be after 2018. And this is supposed to be the Crown jewel of the European sides.

With regard to the other European teams, the Belgians are old and Hazard has declined terribly, which is very sad. Some others have talent and could spring a surprise. The best Euro team other than France is probably England. Just remains to be seen if Southgate can shed his 'nearly man' tag and get them over the hump this time.

Anyway, long story short, I think Brazil and Argentina have a great chance, as good as any of the European teams.
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There depth is still exceptional, the young midfield talents are very bright with camavinga and tchoumeni though the world cup is a bit too soon for them to really shine, theo hernandez is going to be a new weapon for them going forward, giroud is still a top plan b after benzema and even dembele looks like he could get into some form, is it kounde aswell who's stepped up as a centre back
 
Andrade said:
I think that both they and Brazil will be very strong at the World Cup in Qatar, contrary to what you're saying. It's not necessarily a vintage time for SA football but I don't actually think the European sides are that good either. Exhibit A is European Champions Italy failing to qualify for two straight.

The only exception to this is France, but if you examine them closely, there's been a lot of drop off with them too.

When they won the WC in 2018. It seemed almost unfair, the number of amazing players they had. There were terrific footballers who couldn't even get a look in. Remember they didn't include Martial at a time when people actually thought he was good? When Payet was balling but had no chance of making the squad? When they said to Kinglsey Coman "you're not good enough to make the squad so we'll put you on the standby list"?

Fast forward 4 years and it's a different story. Pogba has fallen off. Griezmann has fallen off. Dembele has fallen off. Umtiti has vanished. 4 time CL winner Varane's rep has taken a huge hit. Benjamin Mendy is allegedly a complete psychopath. Etc. etc.

The only real bright spots for France are the continued growth of Kylian Mbappe and the recall of Benzema, though he is aging. And don't get me wrong, they still have a very good squad and could triumph in Qatar. But they're just not quite the team that we thought they would go on to be after 2018. And this is supposed to be the Crown jewel of the European sides.

With regard to the other European teams, the Belgians are old and Hazard has declined terribly, which is very sad. Some others have talent and could spring a surprise. The best Euro team other than France is probably England. Just remains to be seen if Southgate can shed his 'nearly man' tag and get them over the hump this time.

Anyway, long story short, I think Brazil and Argentina have a great chance, as good as any of the European teams.
Click to expand...
Regarding France, I Remember when there midfield was unplayable.
Lemar, Kante, Pogba, Dembele!
 
GifLord said:
Still won't be surprised if they don't make it past the R16 at the WC. Do they have any promising players? When the old guard retires it might go pretty bad for them.
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Big issue in recent times has always been keeper, Emi Martinez solved that no problem and they actually have decent depth aswell with likes of Musso and Rulli around. Compare that to 2018 options with Willy Caballero and Armani and it's miles better and reflected in last year's copa.

Their CBs ageing (Otamendi still a regular) so they really need to hope Romero dosen't get injured for Spurs early next season.

There's certainly more balance to the dysfunctional nature of them in 2018 but in terms of talent I don't think it's anywhere near what they had in 2014 for example....indeed likes of Di Maria and Messi still key in the final third in their mid 30s.

Lautaro is good but for me misses too many chances at key times so could be another Higuain when it comes to the crunch.

They're certainly riding the momentum of finally winning silverware after nearly 30 years but I'd be surprised if they got past the quarters tbh.

Also interested what they do for 2026 as this is surely Messi's last world cup. Feels like they'll be a bit weak upfront as for example Dybala will be 32 by then and his international career has barely got going so feels a bit late to build the attacking system around him. Yesterday they put on Boye who scored twice in 20 games for Reading in 19/20 so not many great CF options currently.

See how Alvarez gets on at Man. City as he's their next big hope.
 
Gibb11 said:
There depth is still exceptional, the young midfield talents are very bright with camavinga and tchoumeni though the world cup is a bit too soon for them to really shine, theo hernandez is going to be a new weapon for them going forward, giroud is still a top plan b after benzema and even dembele looks like he could get into some form, is it kounde aswell who's stepped up as a centre back
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These are all fair points but I was saying that the players that were considered to be their top guys have mostly struggled in the last four years.

Even someone like Mbappe, who has been one of the star players that has done pretty well since 2018, has still had his issues. Some thought that by now he'd be a Ballon D'Or winner and/or a Champions League winner and he's still waiting for both.

Having said that, would I be shocked if they won in Qatar? Of course not. They still have a lot of depth in their squad as you say. Only two teams in history have won back to back World Cups though. It ain't easy.
 
Fancy Spain in Qatar.

They weren't far away from winning euros at all despite a very slow start and vibes of 2008-12 with Pedri and Gavi starting for them tonight, starting to get a Barca spine running through them again with Ferran Torres maturing every week. Of course CF remains an issue compared to the trophy winning teams but I think they'll be one of best performing european teams anyway.
 
Wolf1992 said:
U-20 qualifiers for WC in UEFA are 10 times harder than in Conmebol.

Look at the qualification format UEFA uses for U-20 World Cup: first they play group stage where 2 first places advance, then all 2 teams who advanced play a second round where only the winner of the group qualify for the U-19, and finally only the 4 top of the U-19 Euro go to the World Cup.

Yeah, no shit Macedonia, Albania, etc will never go to a U-20 World Cup, Venezuela wouldn't go either in UEFA.
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Venezuela qualified ahead of Brazil and Argentina in 2017, then lost the final to England but could have won it on another day. That side could have qualified in Europe, absolutely.

They've been doing a lot of stuff right the last decade or so, just unfortunate their country is a total mess.

And it's not impossible to win in La Paz, Chile have done it, a very poor Chile who didn't qualify to the WC btw.
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Never said it was impossible. In fact, I literally said they win at home "more often than not" on the back of altitude sickness, getting used to faster balls, etc.
 
FootballHQ said:
Big issue in recent times has always been keeper, Emi Martinez solved that no problem and they actually have decent depth aswell with likes of Musso and Rulli around. Compare that to 2018 options with Willy Caballero and Armani and it's miles better and reflected in last year's copa.

Their CBs ageing (Otamendi still a regular) so they really need to hope Romero dosen't get injured for Spurs early next season.

There's certainly more balance to the dysfunctional nature of them in 2018 but in terms of talent I don't think it's anywhere near what they had in 2014 for example....indeed likes of Di Maria and Messi still key in the final third in their mid 30s.

Lautaro is good but for me misses too many chances at key times so could be another Higuain when it comes to the crunch.

They're certainly riding the momentum of finally winning silverware after nearly 30 years but I'd be surprised if they got past the quarters tbh.

Also interested what they do for 2026 as this is surely Messi's last world cup. Feels like they'll be a bit weak upfront as for example Dybala will be 32 by then and his international career has barely got going so feels a bit late to build the attacking system around him. Yesterday they put on Boye who scored twice in 20 games for Reading in 19/20 so not many great CF options currently.

See how Alvarez gets on at Man. City as he's their next big hope.
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Their defence has actually improved a lot since 2018. The likes of Cuti Romero, Lisandro Martinez, and Facundo Medina are some of the best young defenders in Europe. Molina is one of the best young fullbacks. Otamendi starts for them mainly because of loyalty. The spine of this Argentina team is very strong, and young too.

That said, as you pointed out, they don’t produce forwards like they used to anymore. Lautaro Martinez and Julian Alvarez are their big hopes going forward, and while they are very good, they aren’t as talented as the attackers of the previous generation. No shame in that though, because Argentina 2014-2018 had one of the best attacks ever assembled on paper.
 
Infordin said:
Their defence has actually improved a lot since 2018. The likes of Cuti Romero, Lisandro Martinez, and Facundo Medina are some of the best young defenders in Europe. Molina is one of the best young fullbacks. Otamendi starts for them mainly because of loyalty. The spine of this Argentina team is very strong, and young too.

That said, as you pointed out, they don’t produce forwards like they used to anymore. Lautaro Martinez and Julian Alvarez are their big hopes going forward, and while they are very good, they aren’t as talented as the attackers of the previous generation. No shame in that though, because Argentina 2014-2018 had one of the best attacks ever assembled on paper.
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True, the improvement defensively is what has helped them in large part to go 30 matches unbeaten. Scaloni is a very canny coach.
 
This is the best Argentina I've seen probably, along with the 2006 team in teams of performance.

It's a very solid team, and they do play as one. And the defense has improved so much, with Emi Martinez at the goal, Molina - Romero - Otamendi and Tagliafico/Acuña.

But if there's an improvement there, it's in the midfield. De Paul is crucial in this team, he does pretty much everything. Paredes puts more defensive effort but he can also play very well. You've got Lo Celso or Rodriguez to come out from the bench.

The attack has lost some power, of course Aguero - Higuain - Di Maria - Messi is probably the most talented attack Argentina and almost every NT has ever had. But this team with Lautaro, Nico Gonzalez is well organized.

I think we've got serious chances to get far at the WC. I think the bench is pretty good too.


The future of Argentina is in the hands of Luka Romero, Alejandro Garnacho, Nicolas Paz, Julian Alvarez, Esequiel Barco, Matias Soule, among other players.

FOpssk3XwAYE5IN
 
IFC 1905 said:
This is the best Argentina I've seen probably, along with the 2006 team in teams of performance.

It's a very solid team, and they do play as one. And the defense has improved so much, with Emi Martinez at the goal, Molina - Romero - Otamendi and Tagliafico/Acuña.

But if there's an improvement there, it's in the midfield. De Paul is crucial in this team, he does pretty much everything. Paredes puts more defensive effort but he can also play very well. You've got Lo Celso or Rodriguez to come out from the bench.

The attack has lost some power, of course Aguero - Higuain - Di Maria - Messi is probably the most talented attack Argentina and almost every NT has ever had. But this team with Lautaro, Nico Gonzalez is well organized.

I think we've got serious chances to get far at the WC. I think the bench is pretty good too.


The future of Argentina is in the hands of Luka Romero, Alejandro Garnacho, Nicolas Paz, Julian Alvarez, Esequiel Barco, Matias Soule, among other players.

FOpssk3XwAYE5IN
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Who do you think are the most promosing young players and how would you rate them compared to the recent Argentinian star players at the same stage of their careers, e. g. young Messi, Aguero, Dybala, Di Maria, Lautaro etc.? :)

And as a Leverkusen fan, how do you rate Palacios?
 
Zehner said:
Who do you think are the most promosing young players and how would you rate them compared to the recent Argentinian star players at the same stage of their careers, e. g. young Messi, Aguero, Dybala, Di Maria, Lautaro etc.? :)

And as a Leverkusen fan, how do you rate Palacios?
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In argentine soil there's a lack of talent coming out. The last one is Julian Alvarez and I don't think he's nearly good enough as those you mentioned. None of them can be compared to Messi Aguero and Di Maria. Dybala is a decent player and so is Lautaro, the other 3 are legends of the game in my opinion. Aguero is easily the best argentinian player after Messi in the last 30 years. Can't compare them.

The thing is that nowadays we're having a bunch of players who were developing outside the country, since many players are taken by european clubs at young ages. They don't get to make their debut here. So I don't really know how they play. All these kids are 17-18 (Soule, Romero, Garnacho, Paz, among others) who didn't get to play in Argentine football. They will have a different mentality, but it will be interesting to see how they perform.
 
Josh 76 said:
Regarding France, I Remember when there midfield was unplayable.
Lemar, Kante, Pogba, Dembele!
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I actually think our midfield will be very decent when this world cup rolls around. Pogba is a different beast with France, and Tchouameni is an absolute stud as well. I don't know if it'll be as air-tight but I think it will deliver more danger during the transition phases IMO.
 
IFC 1905 said:
In argentine soil there's a lack of talent coming out. The last one is Julian Alvarez and I don't think he's nearly good enough as those you mentioned. None of them can be compared to Messi Aguero and Di Maria. Dybala is a decent player and so is Lautaro, the other 3 are legends of the game in my opinion. Aguero is easily the best argentinian player after Messi in the last 30 years. Can't compare them.

The thing is that nowadays we're having a bunch of players who were developing outside the country, since many players are taken by european clubs at young ages. They don't get to make their debut here. So I don't really know how they play. All these kids are 17-18 (Soule, Romero, Garnacho, Paz, among others) who didn't get to play in Argentine football. They will have a different mentality, but it will be interesting to see how they perform.
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Thanks, curious as to how they'll develop :)
 
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