12 months since Mourinho was sacked and we've arguably gone backwards

Our results might look bad but this feels like the start of something rather than a year ago where no one knew where this club was headed.

Since then we have got rid of players who don't want to be here or were not good enough, albeit we still have some.

Our transfer policy looks to have changed and we are looking to identify players rather than identifying names.

This season is about getting rid of players and putting in the foundation for the future, which has also given Ole a chance to see what players from our academy will make it.

Prior to the end of last season fans were crying for Declan Rice, we might have just saved ourselves £80m with McT looking every bit as good as him.
 
lysglimt said:
Oh dear
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I get what the guy's saying. I felt the same before the Tottenham win in Jan. Felt like we were being suckered into giving an unqualified manager the job and it would end badly.

I happily admit that Ole's proved me wrong and he's doing a good job, but sometimes defeats can lead to long-term benefits. Would Liverpool fans prefer they'd beaten United back in 2015, kept Rodgers and missed Klopp?

It's a tricky one. In the future, when I've lost all hope in a United manager, I think I'll probably try to avoid watching the matches and disconnect from it all. Wishing ill on your team is a horrible feeling for a football fan.
 
Another way I'm acknowledging seeing an improvement is in my own view of the players and the team.

Roll back to when I first joined on here I remember posting somewhere that for the first time in my 34 years supporting this club I found myself without any on-field heroes. There had never been a time where I found myself not liking almost anyone (DDG aside) that was playing for us. The reasons for this were various, some justified and some not but all the same, I had a very real apathy regarding pretty much all the guys wearing that shirt week in week out.

Roll forward now to present day:

DDG - Not quite the player he was a few years ago clearly, but I still love this guy, top keeper, OUR keeper.
AWB - Can't remember the last time I enjoyed watching a RB make so many amazing tackles. His commitment cannot be questioned.
Maguire - Overpriced? Yes. Worth the money? Not sure. But this guy is a brilliant CB and will be ours for the rest of his career in my opinion. He's the most natural captain we currently have.
McT - Whether he will keep improving and become a top level CM is one thing, but he has rolled his sleeves up and given our midfield some real steel. Love him.
Fred - What a story he's having. Came with a big price tag, struggled, had a very unsympathetic and hard manager but now look. His attitude simply cannot be questioned. He has come back to the point where he is now one of the first names on the team sheet and it's brilliant to see.
Dan James - I don't need to say more. What a bargain. What an engine. Currently my favourite player and he has made such a difference to the balance of our team it's astonishing.
Rashford - For me the jury is still out on what he will become. But fair play to him, he clearly loves this club and puts in a shift every time he goes on the field and has become our most prolific current scorer.
Romero - Best No2 in the world! Handsomest too!

Manager - Say no more. He may be here long term, he may not, but he's looking like the right man for right now.

This is also without saying, WIlliams, Garner and Greenwood are looking fantastic prospects and I hope they eventually make the step up to first team regulars over the next couple of years.

So in a nutshell, instead of gritting my teeth and loving Utd out of loyalty during some pretty average years, watching some pretty average players literally taking the p*ss wearing our shirt, now I have some heroes again. Sure, some of them may not be world class but that doesn't matter. I can see what they are trying to do and how much they are trying.

Ole has done a great job in some respects, reshaping the team by getting rid of some and bringing in 3 great signings, bringing some good old fashioned United'ness back and letting some of the young guys get a chance, but I also am one that feels he has been massively out of his depth at times and I think if we hadn't got some of the results we have recently, he would be under massive pressure rolling into Christmas.

But, I've said before, there are only two ways of getting out of being out of your depth. One way is to drown. The other is to learn to swim bloody quickly and survive. Recent signs are that Ole falls into the 2nd category and I really hope that's the case and this new team, that has players I actually like, does well and keeps improving.

Have we improved in terms of league position and win %? No, of course not. Have we improved in terms of our squad, mood, playing style and general United'ness? Yes, and anyone who thinks otherwise is very wrong.
 
The difference between now and a year ago is that a year ago there was a dark storm cloud stuck over Old Trafford, and things looked bleak. Jose felt hugely insulted by the paltry £400 million we gave him, and like a child who only got a Ps4 for Christmas and not the Xbox and Switch also he demanded, he made it very clear he was going to sulk and moan until we paid him £15 million to feck off.

Under Ole there's a positivity in the air. We have an 18 year old, 19 year old, two 22 year olds, and a 23 year old in the first XI now who are all much better and hungrier than Jose's astronomically expensive flops. We might be signing the world's biggest young talent in a couple of weeks from Salzburg.

Results are inconsistent but the positivity compared to the sourness a year ago, is night and day. And if Ole can land a really top central midfielder in the summer such as Saul Nigues or Kalvin Phillips, then he can take us to the next evel and at least make us a top 4 team again.
 
Champagne Football said:
The difference between now and a year ago is that a year ago there was a dark storm cloud stuck over Old Trafford, and things looked bleak. Jose felt hugely insulted by the paltry £400 million we gave him, and like a child who only got a Ps4 for Christmas and not the Xbox and Switch also he demanded, he made it very clear he was going to sulk and moan until we paid him £15 million to feck off.

Under Ole there's a positivity in the air. We have an 18 year old, 19 year old, two 22 year olds, and a 23 year old in the first XI now who are all much better and hungrier than Jose's astronomically expensive flops. We might be signing the world's biggest young talent in a couple of weeks from Salzburg.

Results are inconsistent but the positivity compared to the sourness a year ago, is night and day. And if Ole can land a really top central midfielder in the summer such as Saul Nigues or Kalvin Phillips, then he can take us to the next evel and at least make us a top 4 team again.
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There is, I concede that.

But there's a positivity in the air at Crystal Palace who are over-achieving. There is positivity in the air at Brighton who enjoy their football under Potter and feel he has a future there. There is positivity at Sheff Utd who are massively over-achieving.

Positivity is great but at a big club, it must be accompanied by genuine progress and results. So far, I'm seeing little of either of those things personally. We look like the same team Ole took over 12months ago.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
There is, I concede that.

But there's a positivity in the air at Crystal Palace who are over-achieving. There is positivity in the air at Brighton who enjoy their football under Potter and feel he has a future there. There is positivity at Sheff Utd who are massively over-achieving.

Positivity is great but at a big club, it must be accompanied by genuine progress and results. So far, I'm seeing little of either of those things personally. We look like the same team Ole took over 12months ago.
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True, but if in 1 more year its clear its not working, then Ole will leave behind a team ready to explode under the guidance of a Naglesmann perhaps, full of super talented kids.

I like what I see in most matches under Ole, and there's been plenty of games we drew or lost where you're thinking 'All that's missing is a Saul Niguez or a De Bruyne to make things tick and open up the stubborn defense.'
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
There is, I concede that.

But there's a positivity in the air at Crystal Palace who are over-achieving. There is positivity in the air at Brighton who enjoy their football under Potter and feel he has a future there. There is positivity at Sheff Utd who are massively over-achieving.

Positivity is great but at a big club, it must be accompanied by genuine progress and results. So far, I'm seeing little of either of those things personally. We look like the same team Ole took over 12months ago.
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I think that standards have fallen quite dramatically.
2 years ago, 2nd place was not good enough.
Now, an underdogs chance of top 4 is being hailed as some form of achievement.

Some people view sport as, "its the taking part that matters" and we must be gracious is losing.
Myself - I like to win...at everything! And that's why the current situation does not sit well with me.

Have we gone backwards in terms of our footballing results? Absolutely. And that's what counts.
 
Woodward's treatment of Jose was indicative of the level of ambition of him and the owners - top 4. "You came 2nd with this lot, you can do it again".

Sacking Jose was the right move because things had become toxic and there was no hope of salvaging anything. That much is true. But we have not progressed at all on the field or in terms of points on the board to be honest, so all Ed and co have done is manage to convince fans to accept things they didn't tolerate under Jose.
 
RUCK4444 said:
In the voice of David Attenborough:

“And here we have the latest species of football fan, muttering away in its natural habitat, the online football forum...
Waiting until it’s prey is at its weakest it strikes with its acid tongue...
It’s diet consists of negativity and senseless, knee jerk football opinions... A lazy opinionated creature it contributes nothing to the good of the colony...
Being closely related to the Dung Beatle it likes to peddle bullshit around it’s environment, it uses this as a method to garner attention...
Blending in perfectly with the anonymity of its online habitat it slowly skulks away to await its next opportunity”
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This is brilliant. :lol::lol:
 
sunama said:
I think that standards have fallen quite dramatically.
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Yes they have.

sunama said:
2 years ago, 2nd place was not good enough.
Now, an underdogs chance of top 4 is being hailed as some form of achievement.
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Yes but a lot happened after that 2nd place.

sunama said:
Myself - I like to win...at everything! And that's why the current situation does not sit well with me.
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When i competed I always trained and did my best to win but I didn't always win or even get a trophy. Realistically, no one should expect to win all the time and we've had a good share of wins over the years. We need to earn the right to do it again and I'm sure it's not sitting well with anyone, fans or the club.

sunama said:
Have we gone backwards in terms of our footballing results? Absolutely. And that's what counts.
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So, being a few points better off and having a sh*tstorm over the club all the time is better than what we currently have?
 
RUCK4444 said:
In the voice of David Attenborough:

“And here we have the latest species of football fan, muttering away in its natural habitat, the online football forum...
Waiting until it’s prey is at its weakest it strikes with its acid tongue...
It’s diet consists of negativity and senseless, knee jerk football opinions... A lazy opinionated creature it contributes nothing to the good of the colony...
Being closely related to the Dung Beatle it likes to peddle bullshit around it’s environment, it uses this as a method to garner attention...
Blending in perfectly with the anonymity of its online habitat it slowly skulks away to await its next opportunity”
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You are quite talented.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Woodward's treatment of Jose was indicative of the level of ambition of him and the owners - top 4. "You came 2nd with this lot, you can do it again".

Sacking Jose was the right move because things had become toxic and there was no hope of salvaging anything. That much is true. But we have not progressed at all on the field or in terms of points on the board to be honest, so all Ed and co have done is manage to convince fans to accept things they didn't tolerate under Jose.
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Beg to differ. Widely.
1. We have progressed on the field quite clearly. Jose started off well against the top teams and then first the away form collapsed in these games, followed by an utter and total collapse in home form as well. We looked heavy and laboured all the time and devoid of ideas. We had Lukaku with his "amazing" first touch being played as a target man. We had Alexis wandering around like a puppy that's been abandoned and lost the will to live, while putting up with watching Herrera on the bench while Pogba and a beyond-it Matic laboured away in a midfield 2.
2. We now have a clear plan in every big game and look good in them. We haven't lost to a top-6 team since last season (City away, was it?).
3. We do look directionless at times against the cannon-fodder - but a lot of it is down to our transfer failings. We have no striker that can head the ball (not that Lukaku could either, so let's not go there) and without Pogba, no midfielder to "thread the needle". The failing here is obvious. We also lack the personnel (without Pogba) to go 4-3-3.

In essence therefore, we have definitely progressed "on the field" but the progress isn't shown in the points table because of the results against the lower half. We average a point a game there! Now, this should also be seen in the context that last season, we had Lukaku and Pogba fit for this period of the season (though Pogba was "dropped" in Jose's war) while this season, Pogba and Martial have missed large swathes. As such, we have been handicapped to some extent.

Ed has clearly not convinced fans to accept things that were not tolerated under Jose:

1. If Ole slagged off the club and it's "legacy" in a PC, am quite sure every fan would want him sacked...like we did Jose post-Sevilla
2. If we parked the bus from minute one against City, pool and the likes, ditto.
3. If Ole with a fit squad (including Pogba and Martial) throughout the season were in this position, a lot more would want him gone

Fact is, you have to view everything in the right context. With Ole, a lot of fans are giving him leeway simply because they can see the shortcomings in the squad. It's not difficult if you're objective. Personally, I am unconvinced that he is the man for the longer term, but I can't agree with the view that there has been no progress.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Woodward's treatment of Jose was indicative of the level of ambition of him and the owners - top 4. "You came 2nd with this lot, you can do it again".

Sacking Jose was the right move because things had become toxic and there was no hope of salvaging anything. That much is true. But we have not progressed at all on the field or in terms of points on the board to be honest, so all Ed and co have done is manage to convince fans to accept things they didn't tolerate under Jose.
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I feel we are progressing. We have thrown away a lot of points this season. The only game we got something we didn't deserve was Sheffield Utd. These lost points have mainly come from our own stupid errors. The amount of missed penalties for 1 has been ridiculous. Ole can't really do anything about this.

We would not have had a chance of picking up the results we could have if Jose had still been in charge. The only discernible football game plan for the majority of his time with us was hoof ball to Ibra, Fellaini or Lukaku. We were supposedly a counter attacking team. We absorbed plenty of pressure but never did anything with the ball when we had the chance.

We look to have a plan under Ole. We are still best playing on the counter but at least we try to do something when the opportunity arises. If we could cut out the basic errors then we'd have a good chance of finishing between 4th & 6th.

It is mainly basic errors impeding our progress. There would have been much more serious impediments to us if Jose had still been in charge. We are much better off than if we'd stuck with Jose. It's going to take Ole time to clean up the mess that Moyes, LVG & Jose have made.
 
Lets be honest our previous two managers found it all a bit too much, LvG offered to leave in the Nov and didn't kick up too much fuss even when we sacked him on the day he won the FA Cup. Jose made it impossible for the club to keep him almost entirely because of his own constant moaning demeanour and his often 'raging at the moon' performances.

Ole on the other hand has coped with the highs 13 wins on the bounce and the lows, losing the last two games to relegated sides last season, not making top four. Ole has also bought the best three players this club has purchased in ages, this season so far he has a good record against the top sides, he is bring through some good youngsters and one or two that will no doubt turn out to be outstanding. Yes, the games we drew and one or two we lost we should not have done, but we haven't really had a battering, its been our own inability to take chances, and to 'gift' goals to the opposition that has seen our overall league position suffer.

Progress is very slow in some respects, but there is progress, we have not gone backwards.
 
Green_Red said:
This is nothing like what it was like under Maoninho. If you think it is youre clueless.
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I agree with this . Going to matches is actually something to look forward to for the 1st time in years . Yes we are inconsistent but I personally believe that is more down to personnel rather than the manager . If we get a couple players in January then maybe we will start winning more consistently
 
sunama said:
I think that standards have fallen quite dramatically.
2 years ago, 2nd place was not good enough.
Now, an underdogs chance of top 4 is being hailed as some form of achievement.

Some people view sport as, "its the taking part that matters" and we must be gracious is losing.
Myself - I like to win...at everything! And that's why the current situation does not sit well with me.

Have we gone backwards in terms of our footballing results? Absolutely. And that's what counts.
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Its only being viewed as an achievement because we have had to reset our expectations. If the board were expecting titles we'd be going through 3 or 4 managers a season. What they have done is accepted the situation and put a plan in place to improve our squad, at which point everybodys expectation level is adjusted accordingly.

Myself and others have received a lot of criticism on here in recent months because of our consistent backing of this plan, and of Ole. 'Deluded' and 'willing to accept lower standards' are phrases that have been thrown around many times. It couldn't be further from the trust. If we bring in the 3 or 4 players that we all agree we are lacking either next month or next summer, there will be higher expectations from everybody. I will back Ole even if we finish 6th this season, but if those signings are made and we are not comfortably in the top 4 this time next season then I'll be in full agreement that its time for a change. Another year on again, and the expectation will be that we are challenging for the title.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Woodward's treatment of Jose was indicative of the level of ambition of him and the owners - top 4. "You came 2nd with this lot, you can do it again".

Sacking Jose was the right move because things had become toxic and there was no hope of salvaging anything. That much is true. But we have not progressed at all on the field or in terms of points on the board to be honest, so all Ed and co have done is manage to convince fans to accept things they didn't tolerate under Jose.
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Its another way of saying that anyone who is supporting Ole has been hoodwinked by the club. Its more than a little insulting of everybody's intelligence.
 
Bilbo said:
Its another way of saying that anyone who is supporting Ole has been hoodwinked by the club. Its more than a little insulting of everybody's intelligence.
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That isn't my intention at all. Fans under Jose felt that 'a top 4 battle' was a poor aim for a club like United and we should be competing for titles - that was a unanimous feeling, if I recall correctly. A lot of fans felt 2nd was an achievement given our weak squad (I was one of them to be honest and still feel it isn't just on Ole, it's also a poor squad).
 
JohnnyKills said:
I get what the guy's saying. I felt the same before the Tottenham win in Jan. Felt like we were being suckered into giving an unqualified manager the job and it would end badly.

I happily admit that Ole's proved me wrong and he's doing a good job, but sometimes defeats can lead to long-term benefits. Would Liverpool fans prefer they'd beaten United back in 2015, kept Rodgers and missed Klopp?

It's a tricky one. In the future, when I've lost all hope in a United manager, I think I'll probably try to avoid watching the matches and disconnect from it all. Wishing ill on your team is a horrible feeling for a football fan.
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Just because you cant stand the manager doesn't mean you wish ill on the team. Were you doing that when Moyes, LVG & Jose were falling apart? I'm sure most of us were still behind the team even if we wanted the manager out!
 
You need to sustain the recent unexpected peak and get into top 4 contention to start seeing progress imho.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
That isn't my intention at all. Fans under Jose felt that 'a top 4 battle' was a poor aim for a club like United and we should be competing for titles - that was a unanimous feeling, if I recall correctly. A lot of fans felt 2nd was an achievement given our weak squad (I was one of them to be honest and still feel it isn't just on Ole, it's also a poor squad).
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Fair enough - though I don't just think its the fans who are required to adjust our expectations. The board have had to do so too. When Ferguson was winning titles on a fairly minimal expenditure they probably thought that they had it easy over here. Now they know otherwise. I cant think of any instances where I feel that they have deliberately misled the fans - they don't communicate at all. Woodward very rarely makes any statements. Mostly its been left to us to reach our own conclusions.

The only thing we can do as supporters is to set a fair objective given the ever-changing circumstances. Right now our squad is incomplete and we have a relatively inexperienced set of players, and the management staff too. We've had years of bad recruitment and our financial situation has suffered because of that. We have to rebuild and we're taking steps to do that - finally. What is a fair target for that situation? Everyone will have their own opinions on that. A title challenge is obviously out of the question regardless of who is manager. Some will say top 4 or bust. Others (like myself) just want to see a good plan and some progress and I think we have seen enough of that to be comfortable. Personally I'm more than comfortable - I'm very confident that we are on the right track.

Next season our expectations will change again according to what happens up to then. If we make the right additions to the squad then its top 4 or bust for me - no excuses.
 
Bilbo said:
Fair enough - though I don't just think its the fans who are required to adjust our expectations. The board have had to do so too. When Ferguson was winning titles on a fairly minimal expenditure they probably thought that they had it easy over here. Now they know otherwise. I cant think of any instances where I feel that they have deliberately misled the fans - they don't communicate at all. Woodward very rarely makes any statements. Mostly its been left to us to reach our own conclusions.

The only thing we can do as supporters is to set a fair objective given the ever-changing circumstances. Right now our squad is incomplete and we have a relatively inexperienced set of players, and the management staff too. We've had years of bad recruitment and our financial situation has suffered because of that. We have to rebuild and we're taking steps to do that - finally. What is a fair target for that situation? Everyone will have their own opinions on that. A title challenge is obviously out of the question regardless of who is manager. Some will say top 4 or bust. Others (like myself) just want to see a good plan and some progress and I think we have seen enough of that to be comfortable. Personally I'm more than comfortable - I'm very confident that we are on the right track.

Next season our expectations will change again according to what happens up to then. If we make the right additions to the squad then its top 4 or bust for me - no excuses.
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Out of curiosity, if we finish outside the top 4 this season (highly likely), and Ole isn't fired but is also not properly backed again in the market.....what would be your stance on this? Would you simply say "oh well, he's been shafted again, I guess we'll have to accept 8th again"?
 
sunama said:
I think that standards have fallen quite dramatically.
2 years ago, 2nd place was not good enough.
Now, an underdogs chance of top 4 is being hailed as some form of achievement.

Some people view sport as, "its the taking part that matters" and we must be gracious is losing.
Myself - I like to win...at everything! And that's why the current situation does not sit well with me.

Have we gone backwards in terms of our footballing results? Absolutely. And that's what counts.
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Very well said. I am hopeful that the slide has leveled out.
But we are a long way from being able to seriously challenge.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Out of curiosity, if we finish outside the top 4 this season (highly likely), and Ole isn't fired but is also not properly backed again in the market.....what would be your stance on this? Would you simply say "oh well, he's been shafted again, I guess we'll have to accept 8th again"?
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It all depends on the circumstances, but I don't think that will happen (ie Ole not being backed). I'm hopeful that we wont require a monumental net spend for what we need to get to the next step. We have a few saleable assets that aren't contributing right now. If we sold Pogba, Smalling, Sanchez & Henderson (unlikely on the latter but we might get an offer we can't refuse - he isn't going to play for us for some time) and added £100m on top of that expected income, we'd be able to address 4 problem positions with very good players for maybe £100-120m net spend, and would also likely be better off on the wage bill.
 
sunama said:
I think that standards have fallen quite dramatically.
2 years ago, 2nd place was not good enough.
Now, an underdogs chance of top 4 is being hailed as some form of achievement.

Some people view sport as, "its the taking part that matters" and we must be gracious is losing.
Myself - I like to win...at everything! And that's why the current situation does not sit well with me.

Have we gone backwards in terms of our footballing results? Absolutely. And that's what counts.
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Let's get real here, when we were 2nd, we were 19 points behind City. We were never in the race esp after xmas. Jose himself credits it as his greatest achievement considering the squad he had. 2nd place was actually us punching above our weight. This was no end game with Jose, he wasn't looking to the future. He was there to try and bring immediate success hence the signings he typically made or sought. Ole has had 1 window, he started from the back and we are now comfortable there for the most part. Midfield and attack will be his next projects. Remember Fergie did the same, got rid of deadwood and gradually built up his squad. Ole is at the start of this now. We can see he wants to play a more Utd football style, he wants young hungry players. No more Di Marias, Sanchez's etc. Winning is everything, but you need to put the parts in place before you can start winning titles etc. Even Klopp didn't bring immediate success to Liverpool, but he had a foresight that the club and fans could see, hence they backed him. Pep's 1st season wasn't a winning one either. We will make moves in Jan and the summer, lets judge Ole truly then. We won Europa league in Jose's 1st season and finished 6th in the league, we could easily better that this season. Considering Ole hasn't had Pogba or Martial for long parts, I think he''s done well enough.
 
Saw a stat earlier: "clear goal scoring sequences per 90minutes" - we're bottom third in that regard.
 
How have we gone backwards? What was our direction of travel with Mourinho?!

We've just beaten City and Spurs, we've been showing glimpses of good football at least since the Arsenal game. We've lacked the ability to win some of the games we've drawn, despite having "deserved" to win several of them, we've manage to ride out an injury crisis, bring in several young players who are nailed-on starters (McTominay etc..), other players have finally shown why we signed them (Fred), young players coming through look great (Greenwood, Williams etc..) & Ole's 3 signings have all worked out, with Wan Bissaka being amazing and James exceeding expectations.
 
We will probably end in 6th again with no titles. Although we have a good chance to win the league cup if we can beat City.
 
mark_a said:
How have we gone backwards? What was our direction of travel with Mourinho?!

We've just beaten City and Spurs, we've been showing glimpses of good football at least since the Arsenal game. We've lacked the ability to win some of the games we've drawn, despite having "deserved" to win several of them, we've manage to ride out an injury crisis, bring in several young players who are nailed-on starters (McTominay etc..), other players have finally shown why we signed them (Fred), young players coming through look great (Greenwood, Williams etc..) & Ole's 3 signings have all worked out, with Wan Bissaka being amazing and James exceeding expectations.
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This.

If we're at the same place this time next year, and still act clueless against lesser teams, then I'll be expecting Ole's sack. Football is not much better now after a year, but Ole in charge is inflicting what I consider as good developments at the club. With José we were losing much of what our club is about.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
Out of curiosity, if we finish outside the top 4 this season (highly likely), and Ole isn't fired but is also not properly backed again in the market.....what would be your stance on this? Would you simply say "oh well, he's been shafted again, I guess we'll have to accept 8th again"?
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If we finish outside the top 4 and Ole isn't backed and then we subsequently finish outside the top 4, how can it be Ole's fault?

Clearly requiring backing indicates that there are deficiencies in the squad, not getting the backing and not fixing the issues would only result in not making forward steps in squad development. You couldn't expect anything but not to finish outside of the top 4 if that all happened. Or am I missing something?

Are we as supporters supposed to expect a manager to make foward steps in squad development without investment in the squad? Is that really a fair expectation? Even Guardiola had to come into City and make changes to an already title contending team in order to win, as has Klopp at Liverpool.

Shouldn't that be the expectation we have as supporters, that the club will make the necessary investment to challenge for titles? Without that it doesn't matter if its Ole, Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho, or me in charge. Develop the squad to take forward steps, its a simple enough concept.

How would sacking the manager fix any of those issues? I think you have nailed the real issue, investment and development of the squad by the owners / board. It's not the managers fault, in fact it makes the manager the scapegoat. Fans like you pointing your finger at the manager whilst the owners pocket over a BILLION in profit and make unrealistic signings based on increasing shirt sales and keeping the club commercially successful seems the perfect plan and outcome for greedy owners. Keep the wolves from their own door, that's all they care about.
 
Hughie77 said:
Clueless. Carry on playing Fifa on your PlayStation or whatever its on
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Great response. Plus you edited your post after few hours just to add that remark. :lol: .

Same shit from people like you for months now. When you don't know how to defend Ole except usual "knows the club" and "needs time" you just attack posters with clever remarks like that.
 
Green_Red said:
If we finish outside the top 4 and Ole isn't backed and then we subsequently finish outside the top 4, how can it be Ole's fault?

Clearly requiring backing indicates that there are deficiencies in the squad, not getting the backing and not fixing the issues would only result in not making forward steps in squad development. You couldn't expect anything but not to finish outside of the top 4 if that all happened. Or am I missing something?

Are we as supporters supposed to expect a manager to make foward steps in squad development without investment in the squad? Is that really a fair expectation? Even Guardiola had to come into City and make changes to an already title contending team in order to win, as has Klopp at Liverpool.

Shouldn't that be the expectation we have as supporters, that the club will make the necessary investment to challenge for titles? Without that it doesn't matter if its Ole, Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho, or me in charge. Develop the squad to take forward steps, its a simple enough concept.

How would sacking the manager fix any of those issues? I think you have nailed the real issue, investment and development of the squad by the owners / board. It's not the managers fault, in fact it makes the manager the scapegoat. Fans like you pointing your finger at the manager whilst the owners pocket over a BILLION in profit and make unrealistic signings based on increasing shirt sales and keeping the club commercially successful seems the perfect plan and outcome for greedy owners. Keep the wolves from their own door, that's all they care about.
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You missed the point I probably didn't make clearly.

I'm talking about fans resigning ourselves to mediocrity and not taking a stand by refusing to renew season tickets or similar.

The guy I quoted said that if Ole is backed this summer (ie - he signs the right players) and we finish outside of the top 4, he'll change his mind and claim the manager has to go. I simply asked what happens if he isn't backed and we finish outside the top 4 - do our fans just go "ah well, we're an 8th-10th place team now, this is just the way it is?"

In other words, accept it without questioning.

Something has got to give at this football club. We are better than this and we deserve better than this. If it isn't the manager's fault, then the fans need to actually point fingers in the direction of who is actually to blame and to do that, I'm sorry, you need to start turning in season tickets and refusing to line their pockets.

Because the alternative is wasting yet another season saying "ah well, if Ole is backed in summer 2021 we'll be top 4 again or if not, he has to go". You know where that leads us? Into 30yrs of wilderness like those lot down the road from Old Trafford.
 
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