Last three paragraphs spot on
The “Ole In” Brigade
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Last three paragraphs spot on
Seriously some are still questioning the loyalty of the current fans who have endured 6 years of being crap because they want the current manager out for the best of the club? If we were glory hunters we would have moved to supporting another club at any point of the last 6 years, not waiting 7 years to move on to another club. We are far past such point.
Disagree 100%.
With a better manager in by
Disagree 100%. A better manager would have us much higher up the table with us vying for Chelsea & Spurs all the way.
Well you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this so no surprise you disagree. Its an easy position for you to have though since there is no way to prove or disprove it. Its nowhere close to being as straightforward as 'I think X is a better manager than Ole and he would definitely have delivered better results with the same set of cards'.
its more of an easy position for you to say ‘ well it isn’t going to get any better & Ole is best person for it’ it’s also kinda defeatist.
There are much better managers out there so I feel like our ambition is seeping out of our club
[/QUOTE] Disagree 100%. A better manager would have us much higher up the table with us vying for Chelsea & Spurs all the way.
[/QUOTE]
And this is in a nutshell the difference between me/some other Ole-in posters and most Ole out posters
We fully acknowledge had we kept Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia and Fellaini plus had Conte in the dugout we might now be “vying with Chelsea”
I personally would rather have all those players gone, three good players in at the right sort of age, a manager that’s not constantly agitating for quick fixes and still only be four points behind Chelsea
You’re right in the sense that other managers would have us challenging for 4th but who really honestly cares about that? I want to be sat here in three years talking about a title challenge, not whether we can scrape 4th
[/QUOTE]
And this is in a nutshell the difference between me/some other Ole-in posters and most Ole out posters
We fully acknowledge had we kept Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia and Fellaini plus had Conte in the dugout we might now be “vying with Chelsea”
I personally would rather have all those players gone, three good players in at the right sort of age, a manager that’s not constantly agitating for quick fixes and still only be four points behind Chelsea
You’re right in the sense that other managers would have us challenging for 4th but who really honestly cares about that? I want to be sat here in three years talking about a title challenge, not whether we can scrape 4th
We're basically having a mirror season of Chelsea who also have a young squad lacking quality depth. Difference is they have a bit more quality and experience in the squad with the likes of Willian, Kanté, Jorginho etc than we do and consequently they're doing a bit better in the league. On the other hand we've fecked them off out of a cup already and we've played some fantastic big games which I really think is a sign that we can win something soon, even if it isn't the league. I'll take an actual trophy over the top 4 trophy any day.
People keep saying this and the only names that pop up are Klopp and Pochettino FFS. Name a serious candidate - and if you say Allegri I'm going to be soaked below the belt from laughing, never in a million years a Man United coach.
Your post is very fair, balanced, and reasonable. Based on what you said I am confused about why you are still "Ole out".
By the way, if you watch Pep interviews he always says that winning is all about quality players giving their 100% and very little about tactics. So, actually not that different from how you described Ole
The only way I’m judging Ole at the moment is the general ‘feeling’ I have whilst watching us! Over the last six years I’ve become numb to the boring football and disliked over half of our players!
This season has been far from great, but I feel like I’m enjoying watching our games and am right behind our whole squad! We have some exceptional young players that are being given an opportunity and I think that’s great and will stand us in great stead for the next decade with the addition of a few experienced world class players
This season has been far from great, but I feel like I’m enjoying watching our games and am right behind our whole squad! We have some exceptional young players that are being given an opportunity and I think that’s great and will stand us in great stead for the next decade with the addition of a few experienced world class players
How do you want the best for the club? We just had one of the most proven coaches, the one with quick results - Mourinho, as our coach and it didn't work out. The one before that, LvG, was also way more proven than Pochettino. Also didnt work. So, excuse us for not wanting to keep going down the same "quick fix" route just based on Ole Out crowd's faith into some imaginary savior.
How can you say that? Have you a divine wisdom that the rest of us have not? Fact is, we have missed 4 penalties this season, which has cost us points, we have missed numerous chances (4 very good chances against Watford alone), several bloopers from Dr Gea which have cost goals. If only half of these chances had been taken, we would possibly have another 6 or 7 points, where would that put us?
If LVG & Jose ‘ didn’t work out’ after winning trophies & getting top 4 or very close then Ole definitely isn’t so should be sacked immediately
Disagree 100%. A better manager would have us much higher up the table with us vying for Chelsea & Spurs all the way.
[/QUOTE]
And this is in a nutshell the difference between me/some other Ole-in posters and most Ole out posters
We fully acknowledge had we kept Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia and Fellaini plus had Conte in the dugout we might now be “vying with Chelsea”
I personally would rather have all those players gone, three good players in at the right sort of age, a manager that’s not constantly agitating for quick fixes and still only be four points behind Chelsea
You’re right in the sense that other managers would have us challenging for 4th but who really honestly cares about that? I want to be sat here in three years talking about a title challenge, not whether we can scrape 4th
[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
[/QUOTE]
And this is in a nutshell the difference between me/some other Ole-in posters and most Ole out posters
We fully acknowledge had we kept Lukaku, Sanchez, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia and Fellaini plus had Conte in the dugout we might now be “vying with Chelsea”
I personally would rather have all those players gone, three good players in at the right sort of age, a manager that’s not constantly agitating for quick fixes and still only be four points behind Chelsea
You’re right in the sense that other managers would have us challenging for 4th but who really honestly cares about that? I want to be sat here in three years talking about a title challenge, not whether we can scrape 4th
[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
Absolutely agree.
People are not just mentioning Poch, but also Erik ten Hag, Hagelmann etc. Tbh I don't even think Rodgers would be a poor candidate atm. I dislike his persona, but overall I think he's a good coach.
Well with such logic like that how can I compete. Also If we had stopped every goal we let in & scored from every shot where would that put us? Top of the league winning every game so yep we should give Ole a 50 year contract.
The mental gymnastics to make Ole look good is ridiculous. We deserve no top 4 of trophies with fans supporting this utter mediocrity & losing mentality
The question is i guess, do you think ole has the nouse and tactical skill to adapt and play different ways against different opposition? For me ole has two jobs, one hes doing well (changing the squad) and one hes not doing so well (improving our style of play and results).
I want ole to succeed and don't hate that he is here but if he was sacked tomorrow i wouldn't consider it a loss to the club.
Pochettino has a better record (for me) of playing good football and integrating youth than ole. I don't really see him as a quick fix, but i see him as a more competent version of ole. Yeah he got sacked by spurs but from the outside looking in the problems he was faced with seemed to be caused by the board being tight with money (in both transfers in and wages), two thing he wouldn't face at united.
I think ole is safe at the moment, but i wouldn't be surprised to see us with another manager in a years time thinking that oles only achievement was trimming the fat off the squad.
And there is absolutely no guarantees that either of these will do a better job.
Ten Hag ? What has he done ? He was ok at Utrecht - not great in any way. And yes - he did good in the C.L with Ajax - but it should be mentioned that he is yet to win the Eredivisie in Holland - he was beaten twice by PSV to the title.
And I agree that Rodgers has done brilliantly at Leicester, but he got Liverpool to collapse, just months after they almost won the League. Surely that leaves question marks.
Same with Nagelsmann - he did ok at Hoffenheim, not great in any way. And he has had a great start to his Leipzig career, but I always feel that Leipzig is a case of excellent scouting rather than excellent coaching. Regardless - why chance OGS with a manager whose credentials aren't that much better ? If he does really well at Leipzig for 2-3 seasons, yes of course he could be an option. But its too early to tell if he is the real deal.
My Point is this - if you are going to sack the manager, you better be absolutely certain that the one you get to replace him is better. And when the players are happy and we are in a position we are, it would be a wrong decision to fire him.
And WHAT has Ole done??? You’re trashing other managers when ours has done nothing at all
Ten Hag won the title last year.
Its certainly not an easier position. Defending every loss, every draw, every decision that has been made because its all actually reality and so easy to pick apart if so inclined. We are called deluded, defeatist, accused of lowering our expectations, being so dumb as to have been hoodwinked by the club into accepting what you consider to be mediocrity or even being blinded by the fact that our manager is a former player. Countless insults & accusation.
The opposite stance is 'I think that someone else is a better manager so they would definitely be doing better'. That's not a position that has to be defended based on any actual real life situation. Its just stating your belief as fact and sticking to it because you are convinced that you know better.
I don’t get this thinking at all. Even if we hired Pep our Klopp there would not be any guarantees, so does it mean we should stick with Ole? It’s very frustrating and unfortunate because Top 4 is still up for grabs if we had a better manager but we don’t care about that.
I will be very impressed if you can argue that Pochettino has a better record of integrating youth than OGS considering Spurs practically don't have any young players playing regularly. If we are nice, we can give them Ndombele and Winks
Thats not what I wrote - was it ? Read my answer again!
Ah right - I stand corrected
The biggest test of a managers tactical nouse comes against your biggest rivals (the top 6) and to be honest we’ve been phenomenal against them! One could argue our ability to break down deep lying defences is poor but I honestly believe a couple of creative players would fix that and having Pogba available will be crucial for too
When all logic and debate fails, just be a comedian so you won't appear as clueless. Just let them have the spotlight in this thread.
There really are no garauntees. But it's not a problem for other clubs to sack managers when they perform below expectations. We never had that problem with Saf, but it's a reality we need to get used to until we get the right manager. I'm not really sure the posititon we are in is all that good. We are in the EL and sat in 7th place behind sheffield United, Leicester and Spurs. But it's fair enough to point out that top 4 is within reach and we have half a season to go. I'm also content with Ole seeing out the season and evaluating him at the end.
It's true that Liverpool collapsed after their title challenge, but they also had to cope with Suarez being sold, par none their best player, Sterling leaving for City, Sturridge being injured most of the time, basicly losing their strikeforce which was what made them good and Gerrard being on his last legs.
I'm not really fond of Allegri coming here, but you can't look at his trophy haul and say he's not winner.
Ole has won 2 of those fancy foreign league titles, just to remind everyone.
Yep so there’s no guarantees anyone else would do better so let’s just give up & stick with Ole no matter what.
What a terrible negative position to hold
He also got a team relegated in the Premier League. And got sacked by that club the following season as he isn’t a very good manager.
Just to remind everyone
I agree with all you write above - but then you can argue that Rodgers wasted all the Suarez money on crap like Balotelli, Markovic, Moreno. So he lost the plot in his last season at Liverpool.
But this is also my point - there is no guarantee that things are going to get better with another manager, and I am content with OGS as long as I am seeing that we are going in the right direction, and I feel we are. I like that so many of Our young players are improving rapidly, and I like the players we are being linked to.
I think everyone here who wants Ole out will change their minds if we won consistently and have an entertaining style of play. No one here has an agenda against Ole "just because" unlike Jose.
The problem is Ole has broken records in the wrong direction. What's the point of recording 4-1 victories if it's sandwiched between two 0-1 / 0-2 losses?
I don't even care about Ole's lack of integrity in throwing the team under the bus (of course -- admitting his own lack may be career suicide). If the football is good and winning, I'm all for him to stay.
The flurry of opinions after every match makes the conversation all over the place.. because we are so inconsistent, so the discussion is a roller coaster as well. But the big picture is Ole has had a full half season with preseason and he hasn't even beaten Jose's worst season. He is also trending to have a worse stint than Kenny Dalglish in 2011.
There's time yet but the fact that he's even being given time is extremely generous
The problem is Ole has broken records in the wrong direction. What's the point of recording 4-1 victories if it's sandwiched between two 0-1 / 0-2 losses?
I don't even care about Ole's lack of integrity in throwing the team under the bus (of course -- admitting his own lack may be career suicide). If the football is good and winning, I'm all for him to stay.
The flurry of opinions after every match makes the conversation all over the place.. because we are so inconsistent, so the discussion is a roller coaster as well. But the big picture is Ole has had a full half season with preseason and he hasn't even beaten Jose's worst season. He is also trending to have a worse stint than Kenny Dalglish in 2011.
There's time yet but the fact that he's even being given time is extremely generous
Can you explain to everyone what Cardiffs position in the P.L was when OGS took charge of them ? Feel free to add a bit of background about the club being in disarray because of new owners who wanted to change the colour of the shirts. And feel free to add the statement made by Craig Bellamy last year: No manager could have saved Cardiff that season - and he should know, he was there at the time.
If we are ruling out all managers who have been sacked for doing a shit job, I'm not sure why Poch's name is even in this thread for discussion.
I think it's fair to hold that against Brendan. But I also think at atm there were few obvious replacements ready, a bit like when José had choose between buying Lukkaku and Morata when neither of them were really attractive options. Still I'm not going to defend his transfer record at Liverpool, but I think he's shown overall in his career that he's a good manager. Not as good as Saf or Klopp but definitely good.
The guy never has any answers when questioned on this. He’s basically an idiot that should be ignored.
That was 5 years ago. And Cardiff had a lot of problems which had nothing to do with Ole. And Ole was appointed the manager in January, so he didn't even get a full season. If you are going to criticize somebody, you should get your facts straight.
I don't give a rat's ass about what happened to Cardiff – it's a stupid stick people try to beat Ole with. I like the work I see him doing with United, right now. I see him not being knee-jerk about short-term problems and investing in the long-term. So before you say it - no, current unstable form and "lowest points in whatever number of years" does not matter. I would rather have that than the stupid points during LvG or Mourinho's last season, because those things were going nowhere. Ole has a good momentum. Nothing is guaranteed in this sport, but I like what he's doing and I like his trajectory.
Here're things Ole is doing well:
1. Club morale is good. He managed to do what all three of his predecessors failed to achieve.
2. Quality of our players is improving. Once we have enough good players team will play better - it's not rocket science.
3. He is a good tactician. It's not just morale and players. He clearly can set up games so that he can beat the strongest teams.
These are the three main ingredients you need to build a good team and he's got all three. The rest is a matter of time, support, luck etc.
There are zero reasons to sack Ole right now. What I would like to see improved is not the head coach, it's things around him:
1. His coaching staff could be better
2. I have serious doubts about his fitness staff
3. United's recruitment staff is clearly trashy
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I”m not part of the “Ole in”,or “Ole out” brigade...I”m obviously fully behind him and I will support him like how I”ve supported every manager over these last 7 years,but obviously Ole will have to consistently get results and performances if he wants to stay on in this job.I wasn’t getting giddy with excitement when we beat City and Spurs a few weeks ago,and I wasn’t depressed when we lost to Watford..,
I have accepted the fact that until some pressing issues are sorted out with this team,we will continue to be inconsistent for a while.Whether Oles the right man for the job or not isnt clear right now....Let’s give him time until the end of the season,and depending on the results,performances and development of our players,let’s take a final call on whether he deserves another season or not...