Saudi sports minister gives update on buying club from Glazers

I just don't care anymore - ultimately it's my job as a human to look at a human as a human and not judge them from the outside nor of other peoples actions - or to judge them at all.

Philosophically, this universe's power is insane & I hope the fans keep a nice soul at heart to keep the club down to earth and clean and as powerful as can be no matter if someone new takes us over or not.
 
redshaw said:
The race thing might be instructive in a way you might not expect.

Your problem here which some others keep doing is conflating private business people of today with murderous governments and regimes past and present. United fans wouldn't like a US murderous government of today buying the club. What you also do is try to go back hundred years to find bad European regimes as if this anything to do with today or private people.. The British Empire is not looking to buy United.

If a Swedish Viking regime existed today and killed people and stoned women in a district in Sweden and then wanted to buy United to sportwash their crimes, they would not be welcome, no race comes in to it.

There's no problem with a Swedish, Saudi or American business person of whatever race buying United.

What is your problem and can you question yourself?
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Johan07 said:
Sorry, but what a stupid and ignorant argument.
And we Swedes terrorized all of Europe multiple times in history. Germany almost destroyed the world just eighty years ago. Would I still accept a Swedish or German owner today? Or a another US or UK one? Hell yeah. I would actually still have a problem of any of those states would try to buy United but that will not ever happen so it does not need to discussed
Would I accept one of the Viking tribes, colonial Britain a couple of hundred years ago, the Americans that slaughtered almost all of the Indian tribes or India 100 years ago, the Nazis or China or the Saudis today? Hell no.
If you dont see the difference I pity you. I really do.
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The argument being made here seems to be one where nations/governments and citizens are fundamentally different. Recognize that this an argument you have been taught to believe by proponents of globalization, it was never true in its heyday and as the world becomes more fragmented, is certainly not true now.

You call yourself a Swede and I call myself an Indian. Based on that, our capabilities, such as the right to live or invest or work in other nations across the world, differ because of only one reason, the nation-State system. Our nations negotiate those capabilities for us and our entities, like companies, and protect us and our actions, which include commerce. Out citizen-State relationships, therefore, are an inextricable part of us and the Glazers, with their US regime, are no different. By assigning the ”fit and proper” tag to an owner you are necessarily also applying it to their nation and, if the US has made that grade, there seems no reason why the Saudis shouldn’t.

The entities that take over clubs are funds run by humans, not regimes. Man Utd would remain governed by the laws of the UK as it was under the Glazers (American), JPMcManus (Irish) or Martin Edwards (British). You, as a Man Utd fan will not have to become a Saudi citizen but remain a Swede, something you seem particularly proud of.

I would ask you again to consider whether the race of the owners is a problem and, if so, why.
 
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As much as I hate the Glazers I’d rather be under their stewardship than the Saudi government.

Clubs like United, Ajax, Liverpool, Bayern etc are special because they have earned respect over the years without financial doping and underhand business dealings.

It almost feels as if we are throwing the towel by wanting a state to back us. United earn more than enough to challenge for titles even with the Glazers in charge.

It’s an absolute embarrassment we haven’t the amount of money we’ve thrown away in recent years.

Football clubs are always going to face hard times but staining our reputation forever for shallow success is not the way to go about it. I’ve seen the WWE events in Saudi and they feel hollow even in a fake sport. It’s an embarrassment.

No matter how many titles City win they can never be us or Liverpool. Newcastle fans I could imagine getting excited by any new owners but we’ve hardly been starved of success last 20 years let’s face it.

We WILL win titles again someday and it will be extra sweet when it happens.
 
dabeast said:
The argument being made here seems to be one where nations/governments and citizens are fundamentally different. Recognize that this an argument you have been taught to believe by proponents of globalization, it was never true in its heyday and as the world becomes more fragmented, is certainly not true now.
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I have stayed out of this thread as the arguments have been made and made and made in all the different Saudi ownership threads, but this is just bizarre.

Government policies and actions are completely different from citizens. You as an Indian, do you represent Prime Minster Modi and all all his beliefs and policie? Maybe you do and fair enough it's your choice, but I know plenty of Indians that would say Modi does not represent them in the slightest.

I am British, does Boris Johnson and the Conservative government represent my thoughts and opinions? Hell no!

dabeast said:
You call yourself a Swede and I call myself an Indian. Based on that, our capabilities, such as the right to live or invest or work in other nations across the world, differ because of only one reason, the nation-State system. Our nations negotiate those capabilities for us and our entities, like companies, and protect us and our actions, which include commerce. Out citizen-State relationships, therefore, are an inextricable part of us and the Glazers, with their US regime, are no different. By assigning the ”fit and proper” tag to an owner you are necessarily also applying it to their nation and, if the US has made that grade, there seems no reason why the Saudis shouldn’t.
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The Glazers have held shares in Utd since 2003, under 3 very different presidents, but according to your argument that means Utd has represented George Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump, this is clearly rubbish. The Glazers love them or hate them have remained the same during that period, but the politics of the country they are citizens of have changed dramatically.

dabeast said:
The entities that take over clubs are funds run by humans, not regimes. Man Utd would remain governed by the laws of the UK as it was under the Glazers (American), JPMcManus (Irish) or Martin Edwards (British). You, as a Man Utd fan will not have to become a Saudi citizen but remain a Swede, something you seem particularly proud of.
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If MBS bought United it would be run by and for a regime, yes he's human of course, but he is also the leader of Saudi Arabia and the regine is of his making. Surely having the Glazers own Utd is very different from having Trump own Utd?

dabeast said:
I would ask you again to consider whether the race of the owners is a problem and, if so, why.
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I might have missed something but, I don't think race has come into this at all, no one has said they are against the takeover because MBS is an Arab, if they had they would have been rightly banned. People are saying it because they do not want Utd associated with the Saudi regime and in my mind rightly so. It's like if an Indian businessman bought the club and pumped money in etc no one would have a problem. If Modi bought United and pumped in the same cash, I imagine a lot of people here would be very upset because of his government's policies and actions.
 
Son said:
As much as I hate the Glazers I’d rather be under their stewardship than the Saudi government.

Clubs like United, Ajax, Liverpool, Bayern etc are special because they have earned respect over the years without financial doping and underhand business dealings.

It almost feels as if we are throwing the towel by wanting a state to back us. United earn more than enough to challenge for titles even with the Glazers in charge.

It’s an absolute embarrassment we haven’t the amount of money we’ve thrown away in recent years.

Football clubs are always going to face hard times but staining our reputation forever for shallow success is not the way to go about it. I’ve seen the WWE events in Saudi and they feel hollow even in a fake sport. It’s an embarrassment.

No matter how many titles City win they can never be us or Liverpool. Newcastle fans I could imagine getting excited by any new owners but we’ve hardly been starved of success last 20 years let’s face it.

We WILL win titles again someday and it will be extra sweet when it happens.
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Not when the our current owners are more interested in profits they can put in their own pocket.
 
The Boy said:
I have stayed out of this thread as the arguments have been made and made and made in all the different Saudi ownership threads, but this is just bizarre.

Government policies and actions are completely different from citizens. You as an Indian, do you represent Prime Minster Modi and all all his beliefs and policie? Maybe you do and fair enough it's your choice, but I know plenty of Indians that would say Modi does not represent them in the slightest.

I am British, does Boris Johnson and the Conservative government represent my thoughts and opinions? Hell no!



The Glazers have held shares in Utd since 2003, under 3 very different presidents, but according to your argument that means Utd has represented George Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump, this is clearly rubbish. The Glazers love them or hate them have remained the same during that period, but the politics of the country they are citizens of have changed dramatically.



If MBS bought United it would be run by and for a regime, yes he's human of course, but he is also the leader of Saudi Arabia and the regine is of his making. Surely having the Glazers own Utd is very different from having Trump own Utd?



I might have missed something but, I don't think race has come into this at all, no one has said they are against the takeover because MBS is an Arab, if they had they would have been rightly banned. People are saying it because they do not want Utd associated with the Saudi regime and in my mind rightly so. It's like if an Indian businessman bought the club and pumped money in etc no one would have a problem. If Modi bought United and pumped in the same cash, I imagine a lot of people here would be very upset because of his government's policies and actions.
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Thanks for your well-formatted message. The the gist of my response is that the identity of the politician in charge does not matter but the regime does. You don't have a Boris Johnson passport, I don't have a Narendra Modi one. It is of value to some interests to put out the idea that people and governments are different, but you and I could not choose one day to live in the same place, say France, and work of our volition - the agreements negotiated by our Governments would make it impossible for me to do that as an Indian and, post-Brexit, make it much harder for you as a British person.

What these agreements do allow, is the (relatively) free flow of capital within the legal structures they have created and my argument only amounts to us not doubting the source of that when it comes to the Saudis. I remember when Utd shares were floated and the uncertainty and risk associated with trying to guess what 2 white horse-traders (literally) would do with our beloved club. Similarly, having spent a lot of time in the US, I can say that the Glazers are a terrible example of sports ownership over there and have demonstrated their true colours in spades with Utd. Even if their main goal was sports washing (can US interests not do sports washing and, even so, how is that morally inferior to just making a buck?), the Saudis would be patient investors who would want long-term success and are just about the only people with the requisite resources who are likely to take on the daunting problem of getting us out of the hole into which the Glazers have shoved us.

Capital shouldn't have a color and, though this all may be moot since it looks like the Saudis have turned their interest to Newcastle United, I would like to believe that Man Utd fans are for Man Utd traditions and success and don't care what the people who own us look like.
 
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Will be interesting to see how Newcastle perform if indeed they are bought. Remember, football and football law is no longer what it was when the likes of City and PSG were bought by sovereign wealth. FFP is here. You can't just throw endless pitt of money at a project now. You have be clever. Look at City, even they had to "sell" 10% of themselves to generate money. But like Saudis other club, Sheffield United have shown, it can be done by clever investments.

But the question here for me is, what are the MBS/PIF's reason of wanting another club? If it is for advertising through football, well, no one will give them that exposure other than a club like United or LFC, from England anyway. City have a proven, it is very difficult to match Manchester United when it comes to appeal and exposure. Even with all their recent successes, they're still some way behind us.
 
dabeast said:
Thanks for your well-formatted message. The the gist of my response is that the identity of the politician in charge does not matter but the regime does. You don't have a Boris Johnson passport, I don't have a Narendra Modi one. It is of value to some interests to put out the idea that people and governments are different, but you and I could not choose one day to live in the same place, say France, and work of our volition - the agreements negotiated by our Governments would make it impossible for me to do that as an Indian and, post-Brexit, make it much harder for you as a British person.

What these agreements do allow, is the (relatively) free flow of capital within the legal structures they have created and my argument only amounts to us not doubting the source of that when it comes to the Saudis. I remember when Utd shares were floated and the uncertainty and risk associated with trying to guess what 2 white horse-traders (literally) would do with our beloved club. Similarly, having spent a lot of time in the US, I can say that the Glazers are a terrible example of sports ownership over there and have demonstrated their true colours in spades with Utd. Even if their main goal was sports washing (can US interests not do sports washing and, even so, how is that morally inferior to just making a buck?), the Saudis would be patient investors who would want long-term success and are just about the only people with the requisite resources who are likely to take on the daunting problem of getting us out of the hole into which the Glazers have shoved us.

Capital shouldn't have a color and, though this all may be moot since it looks like the Saudis have turned their interest to Newcastle United, I would like to believe that Man Utd fans are for Man Utd traditions and success and don't care what the people who own us look like.
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I dont get why you bring race so much into it, people that I hear from have a problem with the regime, not the color.

How does your idea of Glazers and sportswashing come up? If that is the case, they're doing a horrible job and quite the opposite.

"And how is Sportswashing morally inferior to just making a buck?"

1) You do sportswashing to cover up horrible war crimes, murders, and oppression of the press. Money is just making money. Dont tell me that the Glazers have actually ordered killings, or that their country's actions in wars should be held accountable by the Glazers.

2) A sportswashing club takes the place of a historic club who have owned, earned and deserve their spot in the league through hard work and good commerce. When those great clubs become number 4 or 5, Imagine what other well earned smaller clubs that it pushes further back into the background.

3) If the money a sportswashing country put into say City, was used on actually bettering social issues and problems in their own countries, the countries might be better off. Sure it's good for tourism, and that's the income of the future for oil-states, but what does it matter if you're having a horrible regime? If you spend the money and power to actually be a good regime, there'd be no reason to paper over the cracks.

4) Sportswashing takes war and national interests into football. That's rarely a great thing, and it'd be strange to see a football war of interest in the middle-east take place 5000 km away in England. Football used to be just football - now it wont be only football, but a weird spinoff involving politics and national pride also. It just feels strange being a vessel of that. Of matters that didnt even brought you into liking football in the first place. Of course we can't be owned by a sportswashing state and pretend it's just football.
 
Johan07 said:
Sorry, but what a stupid and ignorant argument.
And we Swedes terrorized all of Europe multiple times in history. Germany almost destroyed the world just eighty years ago. Would I still accept a Swedish or German owner today? Or a another US or UK one? Hell yeah. I would actually still have a problem of any of those states would try to buy United but that will not ever happen so it does not need to discussed
Would I accept one of the Viking tribes, colonial Britain a couple of hundred years ago, the Americans that slaughtered almost all of the Indian tribes or India 100 years ago, the Nazis or China or the Saudis today? Hell no.
If you dont see the difference I pity you. I really do.
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I’m sorry but it’s hard to understand you.

Just so we remind each other about the history. Swedish governments shameful collaboration with the Nazis was only 80 years ago. A lot a Swedish companies made a fortune selling parts and technologies to the Germans at that time. Sweden also had several global companies doing good business in South Africa when apartheid was part of the SA legal system. Sweden has for 70 years sold weapons all over the world, some of them used in conflicts by state financed terrorist. They sold weapons to India, nations in Latin America, Europe, Africa, the Middle East and some nations with dictatorships. Swedish prime ministers went on tours helping these companies selling their weapons. Swedish companies and representatives has bribed whoever necessary in order to win these contracts. Heard of Bofors and India? SAAB and South Africa? Brunei? Just to mention a few of Sweden’s last successes around the world.

Some of these companies was owned by the most influential Swedish family in the last 100 years. Just for your information that family has spent a fortune whitewashing their reputation in the last 50 years.

Did you know that Sweden used race biology until only 40 years ago. The Swedish governments had state financed departments who castrated and lobotomized people with the wrong race and background. Not to mention the way the Swedish governments stole land from the Swedish indigenous people.

If you care about the Saudi Arabic people. Journalists, women, homosexuals or Arabic minorities then you should welcome the SA royal family to take a step into the modern world. In my world “whitewashing“ is step in the right direction because it means the ruling SA government acknowledges their wrongdoings. A larger scale of media coverage will force them to be more transparent.

Changes takes time. Instead of turning our backs against them it may be better to open up to co operation. If we as global citizens turn our backs against everything we don’t like then Yemen will suffer many more years to come and we can sit in our warm sofas behind our computers taking a moral high ground and counting all the “likes” on fans forums and Facebook. Winning the moral high competition is far more important then dealing with things we don’t like.

I think differently to you. I like to visit countries I don’t like or politically agree with because it helps me to understand the world a little bit better. Maybe I can change someones mind or maybe their perspective change my mind.
 
7even said:
I’m sorry but it’s hard to understand you.

Just so we remind each other about the history. Swedish governments shameful collaboration with the Nazis was only 80 years ago. A lot a Swedish companies made a fortune selling parts and technologies to the Germans at that time. Sweden also had several global companies doing good business in South Africa when apartheid was part of the SA legal system. Sweden has for 70 years sold weapons all over the world, some of them used in conflicts by state financed terrorist. They sold weapons to India, nations in Latin America, Europe, Africa, the Middle East and some nations with dictatorships. Swedish prime ministers went on tours helping these companies selling their weapons. Swedish companies and representatives has bribed whoever necessary in order to win these contracts. Heard of Bofors and India? SAAB and South Africa? Brunei? Just to mention a few of Sweden’s last successes around the world.

Some of these companies was owned by the most influential Swedish family in the last 100 years. Just for your information that family has spent a fortune whitewashing their reputation in the last 50 years.

Did you know that Sweden used race biology until only 40 years ago. The Swedish governments had state financed departments who castrated and lobotomized people with the wrong race and background. Not to mention the way the Swedish governments stole land from the Swedish indigenous people.
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Irrelevant. The Sweedish government isn't buying clubs.

7even said:
If you care about the Saudi Arabic people. Journalists, women, homosexuals or Arabic minorities then you should welcome the SA royal family to take a step into the modern world. In my world “whitewashing“ is step in the right direction because it means the ruling SA government acknowledges their wrongdoings. A larger scale of media coverage will force them to be more transparent.
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Either you don't know what whitewashing is or you posted one of the most absurd comments I've ever seen. Whitewashing is NEVER a "step in the right direction". I can't even believe what I just read.

7even said:
Changes takes time. Instead of turning our backs against them it may be better to open up to co operation. If we as global citizens turn our backs against everything we don’t like then Yemen will suffer many more years to come and we can sit in our warm sofas behind our computers taking a moral high ground and counting all the “likes” on fans forums and Facebook. Winning the moral high competition is far more important then dealing with things we don’t like.

I think differently to you. I like to visit countries I don’t like or politically agree with because it helps me to understand the world a little bit better. Maybe I can change someones mind or maybe their perspective change my mind.
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Sorry but people really need to stop posting fake enlightened crap like this. United fans who want Saudi owners are only interested in the money invested and potential glory. Stop pretending the potential they change their ways is real factor in wanting this to happen.
 
jem said:
What are some examples of this success that you are referring to?
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Economic - 2x GDP per capita than even China; Aramco is the biggest IPO of all time and the largest company in the world
Political - leader of Islamic and Arab nations from around the world; unlike other oil rich nations they keep America in their pocket and not once have been invaded or seriously sanctioned (unlike Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela etc.)
Tourism - have capitalised on Mecca as a form of religious tourism just as well as the Vatican managed to with Catholicism

So yeah the list is very long and rather impressive for a technically under-developed nation.

The problem come in when you actually educate yourselves about how they've done those things and how brutally they maintain their position of power
 
matt10000 said:
Murder of journalists
Execution of protesters
Hacking of phones.......

It all seems so far away from home but I wonder what Eleven-Eighteen would think if it was one of his/her children who was imprisoned while visiting Saudi for writing an article on human rights in Saudi or something?

I keep reading people trying to justify it as the Saudi regime are trying to improve and buying man utd would put them in the spotlight and help encourage them and be good for their people........ behave and get real........ just like the Berlin Olympics turned Hitler into Mother Teresa in 1936.

I don't like the Glazers and I would like them to be replaced but frankly replacing a family of parasitic leeches with a murderous thuggish de facto ruler who denies his own people of human rights, imprisons his own people for criticising authorities or advocating political and rights reforms, systematically discriminates against women and religious minorities, curtails academic research deemed sensitive, bans political parties, censors local media and executes people who were involved in anti-government protests when they were under 18 years old, hacks peoples phone accounts in an attempt to influence news coverage of the kingdom.

If this purchase happens then Man Utd Utd whose roots stem from good, hard working class people of Salford will become a propaganda vehicle for a murderous tyrant.

#GlazersOut #SaudisNotUntilHellFreezesOver
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Jesus Christ mate. At least read the whole conversation before getting so emotional about what I said.

And read what I just wrote in response to someone else's question as well.

I specifically said that *in spite* of Saudi Arabia's effectiveness at getting what they want. And *in spite* of them getting better outcomes for United than these blood sucking Glazers, I would *NOT* want them to buy this club. Because that's how much I abhor that regime - King Salman, Prince MBS and everyone else who rules that land or benefits from the patronage of these two
 
MichaelB1807 said:
It is the 'any means necessary' bit that should scare the hell out of all of us. We shouldn't sell our soul to the devil for sporting success. I don't want them anywhere near us.
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My point exactly. At some point the end has got to stop justifying the means
 
Number of Newcastle fans who will care about all this if they takeover.......ZERO
 
dabeast said:
I am perplexed by the moral outrage here. Regimes murder people, that’s just in their nature. Does anyone on this thread believe the British and American regimes have not murdered and are not murdering MANY more people and are not hacking MANY more phones than this Saudi regime?

Here, in India, we had the Jallianwala Bagh massacre where the British killed nearly 1500 unarmed people a hundred years ago. Just recently, the Americans “droned” a high official of another Government. These murders are happening every day and yet the people on this forum seem to prefer sticking with the Glazers, a representative of the American regime’s soft power.

It would be interesting to survey the race of those who support a Saudi takeover vs those who are against it on this forum, it might be instructive.

#GlazersOut #SaudisIn
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Well for one we happen to be owned by a bunch of yanks and not the Government of the US. It's not like some Saudi business man is trying to take over the club it's the fecking royal family of Saudi Arabia. You know those guys who directly order the murder of journalists that have been critical of their rule or imprison and torture people who are critical of them. And what does "representative of the American regime’s soft power" even mean? Are they in any way involved with the American government? No. Are they engaging in trying to improve the US reputation outside of the US of A? I don't think so or at least I haven't heard anything about that.

They are just leeches who made a smart (disgusting) business in 2005 and have no clue on how to actually build successful sports team but that doesn't put them on the same evil scum level like the Saudi Royal Family.
 
7even said:
.If you care about the Saudi Arabic people. Journalists, women, homosexuals or Arabic minorities then you should welcome the SA royal family to take a step into the modern world. In my world “whitewashing“ is step in the right direction because it means the ruling SA government acknowledges their wrongdoings. A larger scale of media coverage will force them to be more transparent.
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........just like the Berlin Olympics turned Hitler into Mother Teresa in 1936.
 
I am struck by (my) estimated nationality of the supporters of a potential (though now unlikely) takeover by the Saudis on this thread. It seems that most of those who are against it are European (with a concentration from Scandinavia) and those for it are from all over the world, including Europe.

If this is true, then this raises many interesting questions. I will raise one here - are the values we all share the same? If not, as clearly seems to be the case, what should be a minimum set be that someone from a country like, say, India (like myself) where the fans are increasing should be able to agree on with fans from societies who historically dominated Man Utd fandom but who are certainly now declining in relative numbers?

I would venture that we will never agree on the criteria for a "fit and proper" tag (certainly, the Glazers, McManus and Magnier failed it spectacularly for me) but a way forward for us would be to use what the NYSE, where a minority of Utd shares are listed, uses as criteria. That listing allows fans from all societies to actually be part of the ownership of Man Utd. While I don't know the full list of the entities who currently own those shares and therefore our club, I suspect a lot of them may not meet the criteria put forward on this thread and some may even, God forbid, be Saudi.
 
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Son said:
As much as I hate the Glazers I’d rather be under their stewardship than the Saudi government.

Clubs like United, Ajax, Liverpool, Bayern etc are special because they have earned respect over the years without financial doping and underhand business dealings.

It almost feels as if we are throwing the towel by wanting a state to back us. United earn more than enough to challenge for titles even with the Glazers in charge.

It’s an absolute embarrassment we haven’t the amount of money we’ve thrown away in recent years.

Football clubs are always going to face hard times but staining our reputation forever for shallow success is not the way to go about it. I’ve seen the WWE events in Saudi and they feel hollow even in a fake sport. It’s an embarrassment.

No matter how many titles City win they can never be us or Liverpool. Newcastle fans I could imagine getting excited by any new owners but we’ve hardly been starved of success last 20 years let’s face it.

We WILL win titles again someday and it will be extra sweet when it happens.
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Totally agree. Great post
 
Glazers bought this club as a business concern and don't give a damn about the football side of things, or the fans.
 
dabeast said:
It seems that most of those who are against it are European (with a concentration from Scandinavia) and those for it are from all over the world, including Europe.
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Virtue signalling is strong there.

"I will raise one here - are the values we all share the same " I think the dominant values are different in different parts of the world. As Eastern European it seems I share more common ground with fans from India.
 
matt10000 said:
I know two 'Toon' fans who don't want it to happen
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And when they start throwing their financial muscle around (as it happened at Chelsea, City n PSG) it will soon be forgotten.

In fairness Newcastle deserve something good to happen to them if anyone does. Absolute travesty really how they never win anything with the fan base and infrastructure they have. I bet Ashley has depressed them that much most of their fans will take in the Saudis with open arms.
 
Bestietom said:
Glazers bought this club as a business concern and don't give a damn about the football side of things, or the fans.
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Agree with that, they are happy for the money to be rolling in and the sponsors to keep signing up to the "Brand". They never cared for the fans at all they just see us a cash cow that keeps giving to them. Until that changes or the share prices dip nothing will change and they are here for a long time.
 
How on earth did they pass the fit and proper persons test? They didn't buy us. We bought ourselves. Unfortunately we fell foul of this loophole but that should never be allowed to happen again. The FA/PL should never allow another takeover that creates debt where there was none to begin with. Absolute jokers.

Glazer scum out !
 
dabeast said:
I am struck by (my) estimated nationality of the supporters of a potential (though now unlikely) takeover by the Saudis on this thread. It seems that most of those who are against it are European (with a concentration from Scandinavia) and those for it are from all over the world, including Europe.

If this is true, then this raises many interesting questions. I will raise one here - are the values we all share the same? If not, as clearly seems to be the case, what should be a minimum set be that someone from a country like, say, India (like myself) where the fans are increasing should be able to agree on with fans from societies who historically dominated Man Utd fandom but who are certainly now declining in relative numbers?

I would venture that we will never agree on the criteria for a "fit and proper" tag (certainly, the Glazers, McManus and Magnier failed it spectacularly for me) but a way forward for us would be to use what the NYSE, where a minority of Utd shares are listed, uses as criteria. That listing allows fans from all societies to actually be part of the ownership of Man Utd. While I don't know the full list of the entities who currently own those shares and therefore our club, I suspect a lot of them may not meet the criteria put forward on this thread and some may even, God forbid, be Saudi.
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There's almost no way for you to possibly say this with conviction on an anonymous forum such as this one. Think you're grossly misreading the situation/ experiencing some serious confirmation bias.
 
matt10000 said:
........just like the Berlin Olympics turned Hitler into Mother Teresa in 1936.
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The Saudis will need to step up their murder rate quite dramatically before they can compete with the most murderous regimes in history . Britain the USA and Russia/Ussr .
 
matt10000 said:
........just like the Berlin Olympics turned Hitler into Mother Teresa in 1936.
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pat dunne said:
The Saudis will need to step up their murder rate quite dramatically before they can compete with the most murderous regimes in history . Britain the USA and Russia/Ussr .
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The point is that owning man utd and being in the spotlight will not change the behaviour of a murderous tyrant, not the number of murders the tryrant has comitted.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
How on earth did they pass the fit and proper persons test? They didn't buy us. We bought ourselves. Unfortunately we fell foul of this loophole but that should never be allowed to happen again. The FA/PL should never allow another takeover that creates debt where there was none to begin with. Absolute jokers.

Glazer scum out !
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It does seem insane.

I mean, would you as an individual be allowed to go and buy a successful business, using that business' future profits?
Of course not.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
How on earth did they pass the fit and proper persons test? They didn't buy us. We bought ourselves. Unfortunately we fell foul of this loophole but that should never be allowed to happen again. The FA/PL should never allow another takeover that creates debt where there was none to begin with. Absolute jokers.

Glazer scum out !
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It is pathetic the way that they bought us, this is something which really annoys me. I don't think that this should have been allowed at all.

Not sure if the rules have changed since then but this should not be allowed too happen at any other club in the future. If the perspective buyers don't have the cash themselves to buy the club, they should be told to feck off and buy another club they have the funds for or told to come back if they ever have the cash to buy the club.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
How on earth did they pass the fit and proper persons test? They didn't buy us. We bought ourselves. Unfortunately we fell foul of this loophole but that should never be allowed to happen again. The FA/PL should never allow another takeover that creates debt where there was none to begin with. Absolute jokers.

Glazer scum out !
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True, should never have happened. Rules regarding leveraged buyout were changed as a result, weren't they?
 
Eleven-Eighteen said:
Economic - 2x GDP per capita than even China; Aramco is the biggest IPO of all time and the largest company in the world
Political - leader of Islamic and Arab nations from around the world; unlike other oil rich nations they keep America in their pocket and not once have been invaded or seriously sanctioned (unlike Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela etc.)
Tourism - have capitalised on Mecca as a form of religious tourism just as well as the Vatican managed to with Catholicism

So yeah the list is very long and rather impressive for a technically under-developed nation.

The problem come in when you actually educate yourselves about how they've done those things and how brutally they maintain their position of power
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Exactly, and that's why I'd want them nowhere near United.
 
Theyre after Newcastle. 300 million vs 4 billion off us. Save the cash to circumvent FFP rules and build a Man City. Smart.
 
If Ashley wasn't such an arse and greedy (aka Glazers) then Newcastle would have been Citeh already. Yes Abu Dhabi knocked on Arsenal 1st then the Mags then Citeh when Shinnawatra was in a spot of bother & sold for a knock down price.

If this takeover happens then get ready for some Toon army dominance in about 5 years. Much better than plastic Citeh & the deluded Scouserpudlians.
 
I remember them welcoming Ashley with open arms. They'll welcome these in aswell. They could turn out just as bad... Why are we so willing to just accept any kind of owners? Why are we all so willing to sell our souls just for the smallest chance of success?
 
[QUOTE="dabeast, post: 25221443, member: 112855"
Capital shouldn't have a color and, though this all may be moot since it looks like the Saudis have turned their interest to Newcastle United, I would like to believe that Man Utd fans are for Man Utd traditions and success and don't care what the people who own us look like.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not a Man Utd fan so I don't want to knock this comment, but you might want to learn a bit about the history of the club you support and the people that feature prominently in that history.

Man Utd was originally a working class mans team made up from railway workers, SAF was and is a massive union supporter, from a long line of dock workers in Glasgow and a prominent Labour supporter who cared very much what the clubs owners looked like. Matt Busby, another working class Scot held very similar beliefs.

You may think winning is all Man Utd is about and that's fair enough, but I guess for many supporters of lots of different English clubs football and club traditions are about alot more than that.

I'm not sure turning a blind eye to Saudi government extremes in favour of a few billion pounds worth of plastic signings is fans believing in the club's traditions, but I'm a Brighton fan so who knows.
 
You would wonder why, if brand exposure is what they're after, the Saudis would go for Newcastle when they have the money to buy Man Utd.

I would not be for it as massively conflicted about the regime but Newcastle, as a brand, will never have the appeal or backing of a Manchester United so I would never see the sense in going for Newcastle over Manchester United.

I imagine this is some games being played similar to most transfer dealings, suggest you're going elsewhere before making a deal.
 
They've got their little shell companies set up with Staveley and co already, I would bet everything is already pretty much agreed for the purchase of Newcastle but the Saudis only want it to be announced after the season concludes.
 
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