Kobe Bryant - What’s his legacy?

Conor said:
The civil case against Bryant was settled for an undisclosed amount.
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Look, I'm not in the Kobe camp by any stretch but a settlement is not the same as an admission of guilt. I'm not sure why you quoted me with this information - the civil trial against OJ was an absolute landslide for the prosecutors and can't really be compared.

oates said:
No, I don't think all of the topics pertaining to the debates surrounding this event and person to be at all funny.
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Fair enough.
 
Conor said:
I think it's personally think it's galling to see someone be referred to as a role model and amazing human, when something like this looms over them. Whatever about talking about his career as a player, but to suggest he was such an amazing person, I think these sorts of things should at least be mentioned?
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Which is a fair position to take, but are you really that desperate to tell everyone else off who thinks that maybe he didn't do it, or weren't aware of it, but were hit by the sudden death of him and his daughter? The first post in the original RIP thread was literally minutes in to people finding out, blunt as feck, and clearly done just to shit on everyone else. Is it any wonder why that annoyed people?

Of course if it was clear cut it should be a different story, but as it stands it was just a move intended to provoke and belittle everyone else paying respects.
 
Don’t mean to derail but isn’t the ronaldo thing still ongoing? What was the verdict if not?
 
Sara125 said:
Don’t mean to derail but isn’t the ronaldo thing still ongoing? What was the verdict if not?
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Just a friendly word of warning but really this should be asked in the appropriate thread. ;)
 
VeevaVee said:
A separate thread? Wait until the shock of someone's death who's clearly had an effect on people has waned a little? What exactly is achieved by throwing it in 5 minutes after everyone finding out him and his daughter have died?
Just to be relevant? To make everyone else realise they're pieces of shit? I can't imagine what a weird place that comes from.
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Protecting people shocked by a famous and beloved person dying from seeing negative things about the person should not take precedent over protecting people, in this case specifically sexual assault survivors, from seeing universal acclaim heaped upon them and nothing about them being credibly accused of raping someone.

The most appropriate time to remind people of the allegation and evidence against Bryant is when people are all talking about him as if it never happened.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Protecting people shocked by a famous and beloved person dying from seeing negative things about the person should not take precedent over protecting people, in this case specifically sexual assault survivors, from seeing universal acclaim heaped upon them and nothing about them being credibly accused of raping someone.

The most appropriate time to remind people of the allegation and evidence against Bryant is when people are all talking about him as if it never happened.
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Except most people bringing it up couldn’t give a shite about sexual assault victims.

(not specifically this case, just with these things in general).
 
VeevaVee said:
Which is a fair position to take, but are you really that desperate to tell everyone else off who thinks that maybe he didn't do it, or weren't aware of it, but were hit by the sudden death of him and his daughter? The first post in the original RIP thread was literally minutes in to people finding out, blunt as feck, and clearly done just to shit on everyone else. Is it any wonder why that annoyed people?

Of course if it was clear cut it should be a different story, but as it stands it was just a move intended to provoke and belittle everyone else paying respects.
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I didn't see that post, as it was deleted by the time I had seen the thread, but the responses to him did prompt me to read the article on the charge. My own initial post wasn't intended to wind anyone up, I just wanted to get a feeling for how the issue was seen by his more ardent fans, obviously I didn't take into account how upset people were over him dying, and they're lack of willingness to discuss anything other than sunshine and rainbows, until the allotted grieving period had passed.
 
Eboue said:
feck off pal. I didnt "sit back". I wanted to discuss the issue but I was banned because people like yourself would rather a whole thread of "rip, he was good at basketball" and "wow cant believe it, he was one of the best basketball players".
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You can not actually deny these 2 things though.

People have demonised Ryan Giggs because he had a consensual extra-marital relationship with his brother's wife. It's not very nice, but what 2 adults chose to do together is their business, it doesn't make him any less of a footballer.

Now, Bryant (I know approximately nothing about him btw) may have been one of the best basketball players in the World, but it also appears he raped a teenager (again not something I know anything about). Raping a teenager makes him a bad person, not a bad basketball player. Although, you could, rightly, argue, that, had he been convicted of rape, he would never have been the great player he turned out to be.

I don't think it's fair to criticise someone for lamenting the death, before his time, of a great athlete. By the same token, you should not 'brush under the carpet' that he (allegedly?) committed an extremely serious crime which the victim will carry with them all their lives.

You could say, if you were that way inclined, that there is some sort of karma in his untimely death considering what he did 15 years ago. I am not sure his family, friends and adoring fans would see it that way though.
 
esmufc07 said:
Except most people bringing it up couldn’t give a shite about sexual assault victims.

(not specifically this case, just with these things in general).
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This is a very odd thing to say, do you honestly believe people are trolling the thread?
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Protecting people shocked by a famous and beloved person dying from seeing negative things about the person should not take precedent over protecting people, in this case specifically sexual assault survivors, from seeing universal acclaim heaped upon them and nothing about them being credibly accused of raping someone.

The most appropriate time to remind people of the allegation and evidence against Bryant is when people are all talking about him as if it never happened.
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Thank you. Those who suffered from sexual assault must feel absolutely terrible, when they see the way Bryant is talked about. To see such a man being called hero or legend, without even as much as an asterisk, must be gruesome.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Protecting people shocked by a famous and beloved person dying from seeing negative things about the person should not take precedent over protecting people, in this case specifically sexual assault survivors, from seeing universal acclaim heaped upon them and nothing about them being credibly accused of raping someone.

The most appropriate time to remind people of the allegation and evidence against Bryant is when people are all talking about him as if it never happened.
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Right, and you can go about it in a better way. Like I say, if it was clear cut, it'd probably be fair game, but as it's not it's a shitty thing to do.
 
Don’t know if he was guilty or not, I would’ve been 6 years old in 2003 when this first came out and I don’t know all the facts of the case but in general some of you need to think about what you’re saying because your comments are very victim blamey :/
 
VeevaVee said:
I'm not defending anything because I haven't read enough on it, but you're downplaying the effect of sports, entertainment, culture, music - anything that doesn't hold much value logically, but actually makes the world somewhat bearable to be on, and possibly inspires or influences millions of people. You're downplaying it as a way of ridiculing and belittling anyone who may have been affected by his death in some small way, even if they didn't know him.

Should everyone consider the rape case and be aware of it? Probably yeah. All things considered, was it wise to drop it in like you did in a thread paying respects to someone who's clearly had a big effect on people? Almost certainly no and you only did it that way to provoke.
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A good summation. If this was something he was found guilty of, or if we could say he had done it beyond reasonable doubt, then it would warrant discussion, but we simply don't have enough evidence to draw an informed conclusion, and as such discussing it so close to his untimely death seem crass and glib.
 
Ban said:
There's a thing called Google. Cheers.
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If you're not willing to back up what you're saying then you shouldn't be posting in the current affairs forum, quite frankly.

A quick Google search about Ronaldo will tell you more about his tax avoidance and the accused rape than the meagre philanthropic efforts of a billionaire.
 
ivaldo said:
A good summation. If this was something he was found guilty of, or if we could say he had done it beyond reasonable doubt, then it would warrant discussion, but we simply don't have enough evidence to draw an informed conclusion, and as such discussing it so close to his untimely death seem crass and glib.
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Just wait until they write OJ's obituary. I hope they only mention his Heisman Trophy and his time with the Bills. Anything else would be crass and glib.
 
Eboue said:
Just wait until they write OJ's obituary. I hope they only mention his Heisman Trophy and his time with the Bills. Anything else would be crass and glib.
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I think it’s reasonable to say OJ’s case is different than Kobe’s.
 
HTG said:
That’s true. Unlike OJ, Kobe admitted it.
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I mean OJ did release this book...
If_I_did_It_2.png
 
Eboue said:
Just wait until they write OJ's obituary. I hope they only mention his Heisman Trophy and his time with the Bills. Anything else would be crass and glib.
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Who else had 'OJ' in Stupid Comparison Bingo? I just need Marcos Alonso and I'm set. I'm counting on you Eboue!
 
ivaldo said:
A good summation. If this was something he was found guilty of, or if we could say he had done it beyond reasonable doubt, then it would warrant discussion, but we simply don't have enough evidence to draw an informed conclusion, and as such discussing it so close to his untimely death seem crass and glib.
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By Kobe's own admission the sex act was non-consensual from the woman's POV, which led to Kobe apologizing to her and settling a civil case. Those facts alone inform us well enough for it to be a valid discussion point. In fact in a context where some have responded to Kobe's death by describing him as a role model it is not only valid but pertinent.
 
Massive Spanner said:
If you're not willing to back up what you're saying then you shouldn't be posting in the current affairs forum, quite frankly.

A quick Google search about Ronaldo will tell you more about his tax avoidance and the accused rape than the meagre philanthropic efforts of a billionaire.
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Are you someone who judges who should post where?
 
HTG said:
Thank you. Those who suffered from sexual assault must feel absolutely terrible, when they see the way Bryant is talked about. To see such a man being called hero or legend, without even as much as an asterisk, must be gruesome.
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1. Any proper obituary will mention the sexual assault as part of the overall story of Kobe's life, in a non-biased manner. That's the asterisk. Would "Kobe Bryant, accused of rape 16 years ago, dies in a helicopter crash" be acceptable?

2. With regards to the bolded, he is being called a legend exclusively with regards to his sporting accomplishments, and how he inspired a generation of fans and future players.
 
sullydnl said:
By Kobe's own admission the sex act was non-consensual from the woman's POV, which led to Kobe apologizing to her and settling a civil case. Those facts alone inform us well enough for it to be a valid discussion point. In fact in a context where some have responded to Kobe's death by describing him as a role model it is not only valid but pertinent.
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No shit, that's why she brought a rape case against him. Look at the bolded below. Does that sound like someone who believed he raped her?

“Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.
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Eboue said:
He wasnt found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, as is apparently your requirement.
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Is it? Or have you just conflated two separate clauses... Whoops.
 
adexkola said:
1. Any proper obituary will mention the sexual assault as part of the overall story of Kobe's life, in a non-biased manner. That's the asterisk. Would "Kobe Bryant, accused of rape 16 years ago, dies in a helicopter crash" be acceptable?

2. With regards to the bolded, he is being called a legend exclusively with regards to his sporting accomplishments, and how he inspired a generation of fans and future players.
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He wasn’t just accused, he admitted it.
 
Conor said:
There seems to be a theme with the sportspeople you fan boy over, maybe you need to reassess?
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Oh not in the slightest. Perfectly comfotable with the sports people I admire.

Maybe you should reassess how you talk to people so as to not come off like a complete asshole that's looking for fights and attention.
 
What’s interesting to me is that he released a statement in 2003 accepting that she believed she was raped but he believed that to be false. In the modern climate isn’t that accepted as rape, as in its not really for him to decide if it was consensual?

I‘d guess that no lawyer would agree to such a statement today because it wouldn’t wash in the court of public opinion.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
What’s interesting to me is that he released a statement in 2003 accepting that she believed she was raped but he believed that to be false. In the modern climate isn’t that accepted as rape, as in its not really for him to decide if it was consensual?
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Of course it is.
 
Eboue said:
Maybe you should reassess how you talk to people so as to not come off like a complete asshole that's looking for fights and attention.
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Do you understand what reassess means? What about attention?
 
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