Take Rashford's penalties away, and Martial has performed to an almost identical level, no debate. Yet Rashford is having the season of his life and Martial needs to be sold?
Martial is our most important player
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
- Status
I'm not saying Ighalo is a better player than Martial but the lad came on for around 5 minutes and due to correct positioning got through on goal almost immediately.
Yes. I think if everyone is fit, then 9 is more of a problem than using James. Not saying that I do not want both areas to be improved though.
The thing that is undeniable is that Martial has had a rough time since Rashford's injury and a large part has been individual, his technical lapses are inexplicable and if he is totally fit, which I believe he is, they are also inexcusable. But people have the tendency to go overboard when it comes to Martial, he has been painfuilly average but not shit and because he has clear qualities, he has been productive this season.
James has been shoddy since October and you think that the number 9 position that has actually produced something since October is a bigger problem? Sometimes I really don't get it.
It's a bullshit opinion, to suggest that we need a striker over a right winger is total madness.
One big difference though, Martial would have scored that chance with his eyes closed.
Martial is one of our better players but still frustrates the life out of me. He took his header well the other night but overall i thought he was incredibly poor. Lost the ball too much and didn't put enough effort in at times (there's a shock)
Rashford is definitely the better player of the two.
Rashford is definitely the better player of the two.
Agree to disagree. Seems rather superficial analysis to me.
For forwards to be in the box, they need to have faith that the wide players will deliver decent low or high balls. I don't remember when the last time was when we had a team capable of doing that, but it hasn't been through Martial's 5 years at United that's for sure. Neither AWB nor Shaw/Williams are doing that consistently or with decent quality like Liverpool's fullbacks are doing for example. And on the rare occasion when a good ball was put in the box, Martial was there to meet it. Martial, like any forward, wants to score goals and he certainly would be more inclined to spend time in the box if decent deliveries were forthcoming. But it's kind of bizarre to insist he should be doing it regardless even when they aren't.
His analysis is also disregarding of Martial's perhaps strongest qualities, which are speed and running with the ball, and his natural inclinations. This type of forward thrives on counters, being on the shoulder of defenders and being fed by through (or over-the-top) balls, or dropping deep and picking up the ball to run at defenders. Even if we were providing decent service into the box, Martial will not become Drogba or Inzaghi. I'm alluding to the type of forward, rather than quality of forward here.
So for Martial to thrive on his strengths he needs the appropriate service. Now there's a stat on Pogba's performances page today which says he has the most through balls from any United player this season (3), despite not playing since September. The rest of the midfield without Pogba simply cannot provide the type of balls that forwards like Martial and Rashford can thrive on.
Finally, I think both Martial and Rashford are having decent-to-good seasons and criticism of them is over the top. Martial has 9g 3a in 20 league games with only 1 pen, while Rashford has 14g 4a in 22 league games with 5 pens. Considering they both went through long periods of playing without each other's support up front and pretty much all season without any decent service from the midfield, I reckon they're doing well. Not that they don't have a lot of room for improvement of course, but expectations of output must be grounded on the reality of this team's limitations.
Nah, it's a crazy opinion tbh. We've needed a RW for ages.
Using James these past 2 months have been like having 10 men. You think continuing like this is fine?
You cant put good crosses in if the striker isnt making the runs? He is incredibly static in the box. Rashford was playing in the same side and he was getting onto the end of crosses so Martial has no excuse
Exactly, I'm 100% behind the idea of bringing two attackers one being a striker but if we are in a position where we are forced to pick one, I pick the one where James and Lingard are the first options.
It's bonkers. We have a very short sighted fan base.
When Rashford played on the same side, he was doing nothing. He did do something when Martial was around though. The delivery is generally terrible and James lumping the ball in the box isn't a good cross, it wasn't for Rashford and it isn't for Martial.
Wow that Pogba stat reflects so horrendously on the rest of our team! But Martial is the shite one? Leave it out people! Pogba has 3 through balls this season, more than any player in the team; who hasn't played since September and its been 26 games
Yeah but I would rather a player in that position with a 50% chance of scoring rather no player at all, the latter tends to be the case more often than not with Tony.
I think Scholes might be right, he may just be a thick fecker who needs instruction repeatedly.
1 chance 1 goal, clinical killer. I'd prefer that personally. When Martial is through 1-on-1 its like a RVN feeling you just know its a goal every single time. We just need to start creating more chances, I think he'd be outstanding in City's team imo.
No way should he be sold, but there needs to be an acceptance that he is not a striker for all occasions, and the club needs to bring in a different type of player to not only compete with him, but to give us more tactical flexibility on such occasions. Martial and Rashford remind me of Yorke & Cole in that together they are often greater than the sum of their parts. Its no coincidence that Rashford's form dipped when Martial was out, and now we see a similar scenario but reversed.
You must have a different memory to me.
No he wasn't. You don't remember when Rashford was playing striker, he was completely static, actually standing still in the box? To the point where it become a recurring joke, would he predict the ball delivery and move next time? Rashford is now a wonderful LW, but was a horrible ST.
Martial may have his faults, (improving seeing as he scored a thumping header off a rehearsed cross?) but let's not try and rewrite history.
Stop using Rashford to defend James. James' crosses have been useless. James has been #### these past few months. End of.
Last edited:
He was Rashford according to the Caf when Martial was injured. Martial returns and Rashford becomes Messi reincarnated apparently . Is that a coincidence or do they both thrive off each other and play better ?
Number 9's should outscore the wide players personally unless they bring something else major to the table. it is clear though that they need each other.
I stand corrected, the number was 5 not 3. But here is the relevant post for posterity...
Played like 5 games and is still 3rd in PL for through passes. Man Utd have actually been in starvation
For pretty much all season the supply line for Martial and Rashford has been Lingard, Pereira and James. I would argue that's barely Premier League level, certainly not good enough for top 4. Yet we are berating our CFs (though mostly Martial) for not tearing it up and micro-analysing their performances searching for flaws, even when they deliver the goods with little service to go on. It's bizarre.
EDIT: And I would add that the ex-Utd pundits are not helping either. I'm kinda sick of all of them. None of them seem to possess decent football analytical skills and they all seem to focus on certain players like Pogba and Martial way too much (and Lukaku last year) while giving others an easy ride, especially English homegrown players. And I wouldn't give a toss about what they say, if it wasn't affecting the fans' perception of players. The difference in narrative regarding Rashford and Martial, despite having near identical seasons is telling.
Last edited:
The best performing teams these days; have their wide men as the top scorers though. But for Martial to have similar stats to our main threat is more than adequate at this point.
Should Number 9's be expected to provide for themselves? What do you have to say about the stat that Pogba is still No.1 in though-balls, and he he hasn't played since September, missing 26 matches?
Last edited:
It depends entirely on the system and the player's profiles. Rashford is also not a traditional wide player, he almost exclusively plays in the inside left channel and his movements are designed to end in the traditional striker area. He is supposed to score as much as any starting striker, what he isn't supposed to do is create as much as a traditional wide player or stretch the field.
5 and he hasn't played since September ? My god! Do you know how many JLingz, Mata, James & Andreas have? Probably not even 5 combined
Im not. Rashford got on to the end of plenty of crosses this year. He may not have the game to be central striker but he was making them runs from wide.
Martial looks to have that same problem, he gets lost in there.
Stats aside, the simple eye test tells me Rashford has been performing better than Martial. He contributes more when he doesn't score.
Agree with those who say that they need each other though; both are clearly better when the other one is playing.
Interesting thread title. Could I add to it "Martial is our most important player...........IF BRUNO AND THE REST CAN GET THE BALL TO HIM." Simple really.
Yeah I agree he's pretty reliable when through on goal. But at the end of the day we need more than one goal in a LOT of games.
It would be fine if he were finding himself through on goal multiple times a game, but he's not.
And remember his finish when through on goal at Anfield? Hardly RVN-esque
I know I'm giving him a hard time but I feel he deserves it. He's either quite lazy or very thick.
He's another one no-one would want to buy. Can't get a game for France. Needs loaned out next season.
Rashfords' game is easier to spot. Who do you think was the one linking the attack together and providing the platform for Rashford to shine? Martial.
It was no coincidence, when Martial was out & Rashford was playing on his own, he had a terrible time, only improving when Martial returned.
Martial has been playing as No.9 in a team starved for chances. He's also kept pace with Rashford goals wise excluding penalties, whilst knitting the attack together so he's been performing to an equal standard in my eyes.
Oh and there is almost no comparison between Rashford and Martial.
The only comparison you can make is their attitude and determination to influence the game. Rashford has bags of it and Martial has two flashes of it per game (tops.)
Compare Martial to Sterling, Mane, Salah, Son, even Zaha or Traore - whatever top forward you like and the difference is night and day and it's almost entirely down to a lack of desire imo. Yes the supply has been poor but you can still influence the game, make the opposition think, run, press, influence the game & make your presence known ffs!
If I were Ole's coach I would be screaming that last sentence into his timid little face every time he arrived at training and every time he left. I would spray paint it across his car, across the changing room and tattoo it onto his forearm so he can read it when he forgets what you've told him within the next 30 seconds.
The only comparison you can make is their attitude and determination to influence the game. Rashford has bags of it and Martial has two flashes of it per game (tops.)
Compare Martial to Sterling, Mane, Salah, Son, even Zaha or Traore - whatever top forward you like and the difference is night and day and it's almost entirely down to a lack of desire imo. Yes the supply has been poor but you can still influence the game, make the opposition think, run, press, influence the game & make your presence known ffs!
If I were Ole's coach I would be screaming that last sentence into his timid little face every time he arrived at training and every time he left. I would spray paint it across his car, across the changing room and tattoo it onto his forearm so he can read it when he forgets what you've told him within the next 30 seconds.
When did I say Martial needs to be sold?
Martial is good but we need to upgrade in order to move up a level. Simple as that for me, really.
You didn’t I’m agreeing with everything you’ve said. Just making a point to the posters sayings he’s shit! Probably should have worded it clearer
It’s an interesting point, and I’m not sure Martial has been any worse up top without Rashford than Rashford was earlier in the season without Martial.
somebody go watch Odsonne Edouard from Celtic. Proper number 9 we should get in the summer. Biggest reason we have struggled all these years is we haven't had a proper number 9 since RVP left. Martial is a bench impact player.
Undoubtedly true, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean in this context? There's plenty of players that did play for United at 19, and went through a relatively sudden transformation in their early to mid 20s. Likewise with players across many top teams.
- Status