Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I didn't ask you to sympathise with Pogba, the other poster talked about how the fans would support him if things were done differently. And I actually answered that it was a business context and that fan support had no influence on either of the sides involved. Why you talk about care or sympathy when responding to my posts is a mystery.
I don't agree with those who said that we don't hold the card.We hold all the cards.He still has a +2 years contract with us,we can decide not to sale,and there's nothing Pogba and his agent can do.He has a contractual obligation to play for us when fit,but we have no obligation to play him when he is fit.
I want him sold,and I don't want us to cut our nose to spite our face,by keeping a disruptive influence who clearly wants to leave,but saying that we don't have all the cards is not true.
I want him sold,and I don't want us to cut our nose to spite our face,by keeping a disruptive influence who clearly wants to leave,but saying that we don't have all the cards is not true.
I assumed that's what you were talking about when you said we should look at the perspective of both sides.
So we are paying his wages even if he does not play.
His value will drop the more we do not play him.
He and Pogba got 27m, it comes from his move from United to Juventus, at the time Juventus didn't had the money to give him a big contract and signing on fee, so they had an arrangement based on future extensions and/or transfers. Pogba and Raiola also got paid when Pogba extended his contract with Juventus. Also the clue in that is that it's Juventus that paid not the buyer, so the theory that you are following would rely on Raiola having that type of agreement with United in 2016.
I wonder if players at clubs like Real, Juve and definitely Barca think that by trying to sign Pogba their club is showing a lack of ambition given what Pogba has displayed on the pitch for the past few seasons.
That would be quite funny I think
That would be quite funny I think
In his latest podcast, Duncan Castles has said that Raiola has been touting Pogba all over Europe, but they are struggling to find any takers. Seems they are now focussed on either getting him to Juve in a player exchange deal or kicking up a stink to try and make a massively reduced fee (PSG/Real Madrid) seem more palatable for United.
Sounds like we can expect to see many more "Pogba loves Italy", "Solskjaer/United are slave owners" interviews from Raiola and Pogba's family.
All of our recent signings have contract extensions that can be triggered by the club if they want. I haven’t heard anyone saying the player needs to agree to it.
When we are discussing about what each sides should do, we have to look at it from each sides pov.
United alone paid him 22m€ for "facilitating the talks with Juventus over the transfer". Again, flagship deals is what the fat feck wants.
And those alleged 22m can be negotiated all the time in all context, they are not linked to the transfer fee, they are not a percentage of it but a separated fee. If anything you have more chance to get that money if you manage to get him to Madrid for 50m than if Madrid have to pay 150m.
And it was just a coincidence that this staggering sum happened to be "negotiated" within this mega-deal. Sure thing mate.
Fair enough, but for emotionally invested fans, that's not really possible. At least for me it isn't, can't speak for everyone of course.
It wasn't negotiated within this mega deal, it was aside of it. We actually have the reports from Juventus, they received 95m from United and paid 27m to his agent and Pogba among other things. What you are referring to was outside of the mega deal and not actually confirmed.
This is why we need the Saudis in. They'd make this horrible fat greedy twunt of an agent of his 'disappear'.
It would appear that he’s more and more being frozen out of briefings and conversations. The latest Ole quote underlined this
Who cares.
If he's willing to waste a few years of his career, it's on him. Let him rot in the reserves if he can't get his agent in line.
It was literally part of the deal. No 22m for Mino, no Pogba for United.
Agreed. I would rather lose him on a free in 2 years than sell him for £50m. Especially to Real Madrid, who think they can bully teams into selling.
We get quoted ridiculous fees for any of their player, why should we sell Pogba for less than £100m to them, I don't care what they value him at.
How can you value someone at £50m, yet will be willing to pay over £250k wages? makes no sense.
But that wasn't the topic. The poster I responded to, said that Pogba should do things differently which would grant him the support of the fanbase. My answer was that the support of the fanbase has no weight on the negotiation tables, the club isn't going to give him extra money because of it, they are not going to become more competent either. On the other side the clubs knows that at the end of the day Pogba is only a player, we don't really care about him, we care about the club and whatever happen to Pogba, we will get over it and support the team. What affects the negotiations is what both sides think of each others and how much they want to work together, everyone else is meaningless.
And yet it wasn't linked to the transfer fee. Raiola could ask the same amount if Pogba was a free agent, if anything a bidding war would be even easier to create.
I love Pogba and he's my favourite player here but he's 100% off and its best for both parties, United and him will both be better off.
In a weird way I'm also very happy we've basically played a whole season without him. It means there's nothing to miss, as its as if he's not here anyway. Fred and Mctominay have used his absense to really stamp their authority on the midfield and also create a style of play. We've now added Bruno and those three make up our base.
We have an identity now as a team and don't have to worry about 'fitting Pogba in'. Our main problem is lack of quality in areas and that can be fixed in the summer but Pogba won't be missed. When Rashford was fit we got used to playing without him and were looking pretty good.
In a weird way I'm also very happy we've basically played a whole season without him. It means there's nothing to miss, as its as if he's not here anyway. Fred and Mctominay have used his absense to really stamp their authority on the midfield and also create a style of play. We've now added Bruno and those three make up our base.
We have an identity now as a team and don't have to worry about 'fitting Pogba in'. Our main problem is lack of quality in areas and that can be fixed in the summer but Pogba won't be missed. When Rashford was fit we got used to playing without him and were looking pretty good.
The sooner the better. I'm sick listening about him and his agent this whole season. He's happy to take 290k a week from us, and moan about wanting a new challenge. Let him off, but wait until after Euro's if he gets his place in the squad. We need to get as much for him as we can, after paying him all that money for 8 games this season.
Fully aware of how transfers work
OGS must know whether Pogba is fit or not.
If he thinks he is, select him tonight ( or the return leg ) and let's see what happens.
He plays and plays well, then all the shit we've had to put up with from him and the Slimball is proof enough for me that him and the Slimeball really do deserve each other and Pogba should be sued for breaking his contract.
He plays poorly because he's ' injured ', then no problem to just sub him and have OGS apologise with his fingers crossed behind his back.
He refuses to play because he's ' injured ', then the ball's in our court.
If he thinks he is, select him tonight ( or the return leg ) and let's see what happens.
He plays and plays well, then all the shit we've had to put up with from him and the Slimball is proof enough for me that him and the Slimeball really do deserve each other and Pogba should be sued for breaking his contract.
He plays poorly because he's ' injured ', then no problem to just sub him and have OGS apologise with his fingers crossed behind his back.
He refuses to play because he's ' injured ', then the ball's in our court.
Fair enough.
That would be bad for Raiola, no? Wouldn't it benefit him to get a larger transfer fee?
Agree with this. Obviously, it isn’t a positive in as much as I think we’d be (comfortably) in the top four if he had been fit all season. But for all he’s been available, it feels as if we’ve as good as sold him already. So, you would hope that with the right replacement(s), we’d expect to see an improvement if and when these players are brought in.
The latest episode of "The Transfer Window" with Duncan Castles had a really nice tidbit about the whole Pogba situation.
They were talking about how Pogba and Raiola antics, coupled with little playing time, made it harder for them to get the move they both wanted.
Both because he looks less attractive, but also because it would be harder to get a high price United would be content with.
And that they are gambling on a good Euro's to get him sold, so Pogba could be just resting and recovering optimally for only that.
Problem with that for United's perspective is that they would have less time to get in new players after the Euro's, and those players would be more expensive.
I'm tempted to say we should just stay firm on our valuation, but keeping him in the team if he isnt playing or having the right mindset means we wont get a new #10 and will suffer accordingly.
They were talking about how Pogba and Raiola antics, coupled with little playing time, made it harder for them to get the move they both wanted.
Both because he looks less attractive, but also because it would be harder to get a high price United would be content with.
And that they are gambling on a good Euro's to get him sold, so Pogba could be just resting and recovering optimally for only that.
Problem with that for United's perspective is that they would have less time to get in new players after the Euro's, and those players would be more expensive.
I'm tempted to say we should just stay firm on our valuation, but keeping him in the team if he isnt playing or having the right mindset means we wont get a new #10 and will suffer accordingly.
He certainly wouldn't be saying Man United ruin players! And that even Pele and Maradona would flop hereThis is why we need the Saudis in. They'd make this horrible fat greedy twunt of an agent of his 'disappear'.
How stupid does #Pogback look now!?
Suffer? Steady now.
First off, is Pogba even a #10? And secondly, why would we need to sign another #10? We literally just signed one.
Here's a small list of players currently on our books who's best position seems to be AM/#10:
- Pogba
- Ferdandes
- Mata
- Lingard
- Pereira
- A.Sanchez
- Gomes
I assume that besides Fernandes, there'll be at least a couple more who'll survive the clear out, simply because you can't sell them all in one summer. Likely Mata and Pereira will be these two, but I doubt anyone will want to take Lingard off our hands either. Do we really need another AM this summer? DM, RW, Striker should clearly be our focus and priority. If we can get a 4th, I'd argue a LWB is more important than another AM.
Looking at the way he backpedaled from that embarrassing post the other night (and the way it has been written) I actually have no doubt that Mino was properly pissed at the time of posting.
People overrate him as an agent and his "mind games". There was zero mind in what he did.
Yeah, it became a PR nightmare for him, as he looked like the bad person this time around.
His comments after was I didn't know Manutd had a game then? What crap excuse is that?
We've come 6th twice with Pogba playing most weeks for us. We aren't doing any worse without him are we? Currently 3pts off 4th and he's barely played this season.
I think this highlights just the lack of impact he's actually had. If anything now we have Bruno in the team.....we miss McSauce more than Pogba now. That says everything.
Time to get rid in the summer. Let the dabbing prat take his Raiola circus elsewhere.
I think this highlights just the lack of impact he's actually had. If anything now we have Bruno in the team.....we miss McSauce more than Pogba now. That says everything.
Time to get rid in the summer. Let the dabbing prat take his Raiola circus elsewhere.
He did have a lot of outbursts before, even much stronger then this (Pep/Cruyff comments and that both should be in the mental hospital probably tops it in terms of embarrassing), but it was mostly from a position of power or when his player was on the fringes in the club.
That's not the case here and it could get fairly complicated in terms of doing business this summer. If we all assume that's his main goal. And it looks that way.
Yep, he thinks he is something special. Granted he has links to alot of clubs, but he also does tend to piss alot off in comparison to Jorge Mendes or others.
The thing is, Manutd haven't come out and said anything about Pogba or anything over last few months, all the crap he is coming out with is totally unwarranted.
If you and your player think you are so special, it shouldn't be that hard to convince teams to pay £100m plus. Clearly, he has recognised Pogba is not that much of an attractive target shows how low his stock is at the moment.
The only reason Real are linked with him is Zidane and the french connection, the board doesnt want him.
Juve are the only other team, but them too dont be that keen to sign him, it seems Raiola is more forcing them to look at him.
That's just not how it works though and is a very simple way to look at it. The circumstances by season are completely different. Rashford and Martial have scored more this season and is making up for the lack of Pogba in the team (to the degree of maintaining previous levels) but he covered for their lack of output previously. Has Rashford and Martial stepped up previously then we likely would have finished higher in those seasons as well.
I'm absolutely confident that had we had Pogba available for even 50% of the time he has been out, that we would have had better results in that period and therefore be better off now.
Then you account for other teams form which helps form the table and simply saying we finished 6th with Pogba and are there without him means he has no impact just doesn't work.
Just sounds like excuses. He's ran out of good faith now, for me has anyway. Sick of him and his agent. MUFC > Pogba