Don't be annoying, the point being made is quite clear and your statement about that woman confirmed it somewhat.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Don't be annoying, the point being made is quite clear and your statement about that woman confirmed it somewhat.
She is allowed to stay, no ?? Or did I miss something. Apologies if I did.....
You're entitled to your own annoyances, of course, but at the same time you have to allow others to be annoyed.
In my case, it's those, like many on here, who moan that the EU must be a much better place to live than post-EU UK but don't live in the EU, have never lived in the EU, and seem to have no intention of moving from wherever they currently live to live in the EU. So I understand totally where you're coming from....
Edited to correct - Of course that's bollocks....I should have said the remaining members of the EU since 31st January.....
He apparently didn't understand my first question - just trying to clarify. Sorry if that annoys you - not meant to be deliberately annoying.
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Asking for the impossible evidence to divert from the point is annoying. Are you disputing what he's claiming?
Yes and no.
Yes - Already agreed that all racists and xenophobes undoutedly voted to leave the EU.
No - There aren't 17.4 million racists and xenophobes in the UK, even if it sometimes feels like that. You know that, I know that.
And if the evidence that they are is impossible to present, then maybe he and all the others who repeat this mantra should avoid using it if they want to be taken seriously.
I'm sure you don't really believe that anybody is claiming that. You're nitpicking to avoid the greater point.
What's your guesstimate on how many of them are racists and xenophobes?
@esmufc07 needs to answer the ' how many ' question if he wants to continue with this dogma. Reminder,
Very sad to see that they feel the U.K. is no longer their home because of the racists and xenophobes who voted for Brexit.
I've already made my point - no need to nitpick for the purpose of avoiding anything.
On a bigger scale, let's say that there are, perhaps, three million EU nationals in the UK and ( really, I have no idea - another two million ?? ) permanent UK residents who were not born in the UK.
But tonight, we have a case of one, just one, of those five million makes a post on Social Media and someone on here seizes on it as an excuse to call out 17 million people who voted for the UK to leave the EU for many, many different reasons as being xenophobic racists.
That's the greater point - and I don't know whether that says more about ' the situation ' in the UK post-Referendum or just here on this forum.
I'd prefer to believe it's just here on this very Left Wing forum because whenever we go back to the UK, which is about one week every six weeks, nothing seems different when we're with friends, business contacts, family, etc, and I don't see / feel the anger which gets aired on here. Then again, I've probably never been to the same pubs / Party Regional HQs / Students Union Bars / or wherever as the regular anti-Brexit posters on here.
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Well on a personal level, the two people in my family who voted for Brexit did it for racist xenophobic reasons and they aren't shy about saying that. All the people on my FB who voted for it are the same.
Anecdotal, I know.....
Anecdotal, I know.....
My mother’s a Daily Mail and Daily Express reading tribalist conservative.
But she’s not a racist or a xenophobe so naturally she voted to remain.
But she’s not a racist or a xenophobe so naturally she voted to remain.
You know full well I have no idea how many of the 17.4m people are racists and xenophobes. I’d imagine the large majority aren’t. However, there are a significant minority who are racist, who are xenophobic and who voted Brexit because they don’t like brown people in their country (despite the EU being home to majority white people). And Brexit, with it’s racist undertones such as Farage standing in front of a racist poster such as the one below has empowered a lot of bigots to be a lot more vocal in their hatred. I work at a local supermarket at the moment whilst I’m at Uni and I was chatting to a Muslim woman the other day who said she has received more racial abuse since the Brexit referendum than she had done in the previous decade before it. Anecdotal of course and it’s just one story but there are many out there. For you to come and respond to a woman’s tweet who is speaking about how she has faced an increase in racial abuse is, as @Pexbo said, callous and is emblematic of Brexit voters. I get angry because I do believe we are a largely tolerant country, or certainly have been, but that is slowly being eroded, and Brexit has been a catalyst in that. Then factor in we have a racist prime minister who wouldn’t even deny that black people are inherently less intelligent when No. 10 hired a man who believes in fecking eugenics.
Then you have arseholes like this, printed in the most popular paper in the country where she refers to migrants as cockroaches.
Also I love Akala, he references the Hopkins article above and is spot on.
I’ve watched that clip of Akala schooling Tomeh countless times. It just never gets old.
EDIT - This one:
He’s so damn articulate.
He’s excellent. If you’ve never read his book Race and Class in the Ruins of Empire you should.
Never heard of Akala. He knows his onions and Tommy Robinson looks like an intellectual midget next to him.
Funny because I’m British, have lived in the EU for 5 years and have experienced absolutely zero xenophobia or anti-immigrant shit. Shame so many EU immigrants to the UK are experiencing something very different.
Italy is pretty bad for anti-immigrant views to the point of electing overtly racist, nationalist politicians. There is also lots of support for leaving the EU.
you’re retired aren’t you
That's irrelevant. I nap a lot and there's lots of stuff doing round the house.
Cant argue with that !
Sounds like the UK, but shh, it's only a few isolated cases.
Of course there is racism and xenophobia in all countries - having said that in France there is very little xenophobia towards other EU citizens.
Even Marine Le Pen realised that leaving the EU would be suicidal and that people of a different hue don't tend to come from the rest of Europe.
Can’t help but feel like @Full bodied red missed the point.
Not all of the 17.4m who voted to leave are racist and xenophobic
But all of the xenophobic and racist people in the country will have voted for Brexit.
Of course we can’t prove that statistic but it generally the thought process for them. Brexit was appealing to those who voted for it for many different reasons but two of the biggest ones were racism and xenophobia and that can’t be denied so anyone with an inkling for those feelings will have voted in favour of it.
Not all of the 17.4m who voted to leave are racist and xenophobic
But all of the xenophobic and racist people in the country will have voted for Brexit.
Of course we can’t prove that statistic but it generally the thought process for them. Brexit was appealing to those who voted for it for many different reasons but two of the biggest ones were racism and xenophobia and that can’t be denied so anyone with an inkling for those feelings will have voted in favour of it.
Especially when post referendum there was a reported big increase in hate crime ‘we voted for you to leave’ etc.
More dog whistle bullshit.
Did you know there were more racists in the country back in 1975 when the 67% voted for remain?
People haven't changed from 1975 - but back then the UK were desperate to get in and stay in and were in deep sh!t. Also the press weren't so overt, social media didn't exist and people weren't so emboldened as they are now.
Of course there are loads of reasons why people voted to leave - like being ruled by an unelected Cummings or having all these trade deals that they couldn't have before.
What was the benefit of Brexit again?
Blue passports!
Well partly, I think I've cracked it. British people love to queue up in an orderly fashion. By not having an EU passport, they have to queue up for hours on end at the airport, queue up for hours or days or weeks at Dover. The price is worth paying!
as i understand it, the 1975 campaign was centred around trade while the 2016 one was centred around immigration
They were more against West Indians and Sub-Continent migrants too. Not many Poles were coming to pick fruit for some reason.
Were there campaigns to do with being pro-Leave that centred on fear of immigrants? Yes.
Did people vote because of that fear of immigrants? Yes.
Tell me where I'm wrong if it's dog whistle bullshit. You know full well that anyone that had racist views definitely voted leave to get rid of 'dem immugints'.
That doesn't make voting leave by default racist because there were many different reasons not at all including racism for which people voted to leave.
If you're getting annoyed by people calling you a racist for voting leave then actually read what people are typing instead of simply declaring it bullshit.
So something changed between 1975 and 2016?
Fear?
Why fear?
I could say that a lot of people who voted remain were institutionalised wet behind the ears youngsters who don't even know what the EU is.
Concern about too much immigration, and the effects of it on our infrastructure, is not a concern born out of racism. It's common sense. Whether or not brexit would solve this, is another issue.
in fact, i'm going to be very bold and say many things changed in 40 years.
I think young people know full well what the EU is. The issue is that they see it as something fundamentally different to you and can tolerate something far different to you. And the reality is that my children for example feel more of an affinity to Europeans their age than they do many of the lovely people who voted for Brexit.
I know that this is something that offends Boris and probably you. But it is the reality. What will be interesting for me is how that generation reacts in 20-40 years time when they become the dominant political group.
Have to laugh again though at the racism debate though. I know we're all down in the dumps about Brexit. I know the UK, like many countries, has problems with racism and there has also been an uptick in it since Brexit (god knows, I and one of my sons have experienced it). However, to pretend that the UK is some hotbed of racism while the rest of Europe is some kind of sea of tolerance. Give over ffs. I did have a particularly good chuckle at 'people in France aren't very xenophobic towards other EU citizens'.
Ah that's ok then. As long as the Europeans are protected from the worst excesses of it, its fine.
I don't think it will take 20 years
But yeah I'm pretty sure we end up with closer ties to the EU... Be that some bespoke but highly aligned deal, a Norway arrangement or back in fully (which is the least likley I think)
But I simply don't see the demographics playing out any other way
Perhaps not next election but certainly by the election after I think pretty much every party other than the conservatives will have some form of closer ties as part of their manifesto.
Looks inevitable to me and Boris taking his majority as a mandate to be prepared to accept a no deal scenario has set the benchmark for a future labour or even lab lib SNP green alliance to take a majority as their mandate for reintegration.
It's when not if as far as I can see and I'm certainly thinking under the 40 years... Even under the 20 years timeframe you mention
I was over in Bristol at the weekend and it was pretty surreal seeing the UK separated from the EU on all the signs in the airports. Probably the first time I've actually seen any real world "impact" from Brexit, minimal as it was.
So far the only thing that has changed is that the UK has lost its vote.
Freedom to do what. You still have to abide by the same regulations to export to whichever country you export to, be it within the EU or Australia or wherever.
Freedom to have a blue passport.
Even though you could do that anyway.
But still, freedom, yay!
Look at these smug fecks with their blue passports, it's like their holding up an iPhone 2 in 2020 after deciding to give up the iPhone 10. I suppose it won't matter for them, pay a few extra quid in the future to use the fast lane.
